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Old 07.31.2009, 06:49 PM   #1
atsonicpark
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This game is amazing.

Definitely too intelligent for the average gamer (or even the average critic) to comprehend.

One of the best I've ever played!
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Old 07.31.2009, 06:51 PM   #2
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Old 07.31.2009, 06:52 PM   #3
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Old 07.31.2009, 06:55 PM   #4
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Old 07.31.2009, 06:55 PM   #5
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Hell yes, I haven't played a game that was a bigger trip than Killer7 other than MAYBE the metal gear series, none of my friends liked it either.
They said the graphics were 'gay', fuck them.
I might rebuy a used copy of it and replay it, thanks for reminding me.
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Old 07.31.2009, 07:01 PM   #6
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I can't believe how great this game is. You can probably buy it brand new for like $5 now, so you should pick it up... I distinctly remember that, for the most part, it got ripped apart by the "gaming press" (who were probably too busy jerking off over some lousy first person shooter at the time), mainly because it was "on-rails". That fact alone made me not want to ever play it... but once I played it... um, it's not "on rails" at all! You can explore to your heart's content! "On rails" means it's like Time Crisis or something... you CAN'T deviate from a path, only in the sense that you can't explore the worthless 3 feet of space in between a straight line... BUT THERE'S NOTHING THERE TO EXPLORE ANYWAY! So, who cares? All the game is doing is saying, "Hey, there's really nothing there, but if you just want to look at it, go into first person mode." The controls and the shooting do feel a bit clunky at first; but after 15 minutes, it's second nature. Also, I've read that the game is an "interactive movie and not much more", but the actual gameplay is actually surprisingly addictive. I really enjoy harvesting blood to build up my characters. Also, the Metal Gear Solid games are basically interactive movies (though with extremely clever gameplay mechanics), and no "critic" ever gives them shit for it (or you'll hear, "There's a bit too much talking..... BUT IT'S STILL THE GREATEST GAME EVER. EVEN THOUGH THERE'S ONLY LIKE 2 HOURS OF GAMEPLAY AND 12 HOURS OF MOVIES!"). Granted, these are two completely different games, and it'd be lazy to compare the two. Still, I feel like most people don't "get" what Killer7 accomplishes.

To me, the entire thing is this bizarre art-house mindfuck. Seems very inspired by the movie Pistol Opera, if anyone's familiar with that movie. It's wrapped up in this "action plot", with cool assassins and crazy guns. It's presented as something of a shooter, but really.. the game doesn't play much different than early Resident Evil games (do a weird, silly puzzle... shoot some things.. collect some things.. fight a boss.. run around.. watch some cinemas.. the end).

Here's hardcoregaming101's take on it, I think this is really interesting:
So you wonder, why did Capcom take so much control out of your hands? Video games were all about having complete control over your character's destiny - an ideal tampered with slightly during the laserdisc arcade games and later, the Sega CD FMV crapfests - but having an avatar that you don't directly control is a bit of an affront. Today's gaming is all about playing around in a "sandbox" - that is to say, big, empty areas with absolutely nothing of note in them, a la every Grand Theft Auto ever made. In some ways, Killer7 is a drastic "fuck you" to any game that forced you to wander around aimlessly trying to discern what the hell was important and what wasn't.
Maybe there were other reasons that the control was so limited. Maybe it was to show off fancy, low angle camera shots - which lends to credence to the "style over substance" mantra already being chanted. Maybe the programmers were just lazy and wanted to nail an easy-to-use control method without bogging down the mechanics. Maybe it was just to force the dream-like feeling of the game. In your dreams, you feel as if you're in control, but everything is linear - you're watching yourself. Given the craziness of the game, this would almost make sense.
Or maybe - and this could be a stretch, but stay with me - maybe it was done to piss off Americans.
No, seriously.
I can't find too many sources for Japanese game reviews outside of Famitsu, but it scored pretty well over there. Here in America, the reviews have been all over the place. And most of the negative ones were because of that "on-rails" movement thing.
See, Americans like freedom - if we didn't, we wouldn't have kicked the Brits out over two hundred years ago. But more than that, we have an unending lust for personal freedom. That's why us Americans are so obsessed with driving - sure, we COULD take the bus, but why stick to a predetermined route that often takes longer, and is cramped with other (probably annoying) people. No one outside of urban areas really takes public transportation unless they're financially unable to support a vehicle of their own. Contrast that to the Japanese transportation system, which relies heavily on trains. I'm sure people own cars in Japan, but it's not central to the lifestyle like here in America. While part of it may have to do with America's spread-out geography, we're a culture that desperately craves the individual freedom granted by our motor vehicles.
Now look at some of the video games America has pumped out. We've produced open-ended games like Civilization, SimCity, and Pirates. Take an American RPG like Ultima or Fallout - they're also open-ended, nonlinear adventures. On the other hand, you have the Japanese RPG, following the precedents set down by Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy - they only barely qualify as "role-playing", because so many of them follow a predetermined story path. Perhaps this open-endedness is why Metroid has always been more popular in the West than it ever has in its homeland. While you'll see exceptions on both sides, it's pretty clear that American designers (and gamers) want full control over their character's destiny. And if that's not possible (and it often isn't), then it at least giving the illusion of control.
And see? Killer7 doesn't even grant that. I'm totally taking a shot in the dark, but maybe the typical Japanese person would pick up Killer7, and say "Hmmm. I cannot directly move my character. This is odd." Then shrug it off and enjoy the hell out of it - because maybe full control just isn't that important. Whereas, judging by the mass reaction, a typical American would pick it up and say "What? I can't move my character? This is BULLSHIT." On the opposite side of the coin, I've been told some Japanese gamers despise the game because it's too much like a first-person shooter - Halo sells systems here in America, but they're hideously unpopular over there. So maybe the game may offend sensibilities of both cultures, just on different levels. (In the end, I suppose it doesn't matter - the game sold poorly in both territories.)
So it's interesting that the culture clash between America and Japan is one of the primary themes of the game.
The plot of Killer7 is disjointed and weird - there's something about post-WWII politics in Japan and a child-kidnapping ring and some other nonsense about the sham that is American democracy. In the same way that Metal Gear Solid 2 came off a bit pretentious at the end, I find it a little bizarre that a Japanese game can deliver such straight-faced commentary on a political system not of its own - it's like Michael Bay making a movie on how the British monarchy is really controlled by a small group of Voodoo overlords who live in the Antarctic and have a secret plan to unleash the powers of some Lovecraftian demon through the use of the Crown Jewels. Still, you play games like Shin Megami Tensei or Final Fantasy Tactics or Xenogears, and you get the feeling that the Japanese aren't so fond of Christinaty or any Western religion. In that same fashion, in playing Killer7, you kind of get the sense that the Japanese also aren't so much of a fan of democracy - the same democracy that Alex de Tocqueville declared as a "great success" back in the late 18th century, and the same democracy we Americans imposed on Japan right after we turned two of their cities into radioactive waste. Not being Japanese or being familiar with the less public elements of their culture, I couldn't tell you. Or it could be that the Japanese share the same distrust of government and authority figures that we do.
The mish-mash of both Western and Eastern ideals pervades the entire game. Harman Smith, dressed as a Catholic (or Episcopalian, take your choice) priest, is representative of the traditional Good. He contrasts to Kun Lan, whose red eyes immediately suggest that of Satan, and therefore Evil. Yet they routinely share insights over a friendly game of chess, suggesting a bizarre yin/yang relationship. Almost all of the characters - save Kaede - are American (Mask de Smith is Mexican, but that's close enough.) Yet Garcian addresses Harman in the same way that a samurai addresses his daimyo. Influences from both American and Japanese gangster movies are abound. Big kanji painted in blood splatter across the screen, all unsubtitled too. Most of the transition scene text is displayed in both English (at the top) and Japanese (at the bottom.)
So there's the clash between American and Japanese culture. There's also the clash of a schizopheric versus himself, the clash of a hero out for justice, and of course, the classic clash between Good and Evil. Practically every type of literary conflict is accounted for in Killer7, which I think should say a lot for its value as a storytelling device.
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Old 07.31.2009, 07:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viewtiful_alan
Hell yes, I haven't played a game that was a bigger trip than Killer7 other than MAYBE the metal gear series, none of my friends liked it either.
They said the graphics were 'gay', fuck them.
I might rebuy a used copy of it and replay it, thanks for reminding me.

I'm always looking for "mindfuck" games. I like the MGS series quite a bit, though I find it overrated. I love shit like Ico, Katamari, Rez.. the really "out there" games.

But (and I'm only halfway through this game at the moment) no game will probably ever top Killer7. If it gets any crazier than this... then, whoa!
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Old 07.31.2009, 07:10 PM   #8
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One of the best parts of the game has to be right before you fight the boss:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xi-CxR-a2o

it plays that silly rave music for about 10 seconds. So epic.
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Old 07.31.2009, 07:11 PM   #9
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it's on my wantlist, son.
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Old 07.31.2009, 07:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atsonicpark
I'm always looking for "mindfuck" games. I like the MGS series quite a bit, though I find it overrated. I love shit like Ico, Katamari, Rez.. the really "out there" games.

But (and I'm only halfway through this game at the moment) no game will probably ever top Killer7. If it gets any crazier than this... then, whoa!
Its out there the whole way through.
The Psycho Mantis part in MGS 1 changed the way I look at games forever.
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Old 07.31.2009, 07:26 PM   #11
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i've never played killer 7, it's been one of those games that's been on my "to get" list for some time, from reading this thread i think i should get it asap, i just need to get chibi robo and ico first though.
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Old 07.31.2009, 07:29 PM   #12
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Oh, toilet and bowels, get ico asap. That's in my top 5 games of all time.
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Old 07.31.2009, 07:30 PM   #13
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thanks for the recommendation. I think I'll go and get this.
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Old 07.31.2009, 07:53 PM   #14
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i changed my opinion about dragon quest 8, i think it's amazing and way better than any FF game.
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Old 07.31.2009, 07:55 PM   #15
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I would agree with you.

I put about 70 hours into Dragon Quest 8. There's just something about it... I dunno what it is. But I love it.
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Old 07.31.2009, 08:01 PM   #16
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i'm past 100 now, i'm level grinding so i can beat the dragovian trials
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Old 07.31.2009, 08:05 PM   #17
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Fuck yeah.

Fuckin kill those king metal slimes.
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Old 07.31.2009, 08:09 PM   #18
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damn straight, falcon sword + metal slash + timbral of tension
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Old 07.31.2009, 08:20 PM   #19
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Collateral shot!

I never played all that much myself but my friends absolutely loved it. What I did see of it played, I was impressed.
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Old 07.31.2009, 08:24 PM   #20
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The first 6 Final Fantasies are so great though. People cum all over VII. But I dont know. Meh. Something special about the 8 and 16 bit ones.
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