No, listen to what you like, but that doesn't really alter whether band X sold out or not.

okay, but in that precise case i was talking about said "credibility", which would imply some artists should be "believed" and others shouldn't.

Get bent dumbass

This isn't even remotely coherent, fyi

I don't know about selling out because that makes assumptions about all kinds of things, but money certainly makes it obvious who sucks and who doesn't.

You can't even begin to accept an opinion or a certain view that isn't yours, fyi.

~Jeremy~

fyi, who cares?

Do you feel better now? Sometimes it helps to throw a little fit, and shit your pants.

Misfits without Danzig seemed pretty wack(y) to me.

they're two totally different bands -- I mean different styles/sounds. But they're not bad either. THey shoudl have just gotten a different name. The New Misfits or something.

i still think that Guyville should haev been edited down to a strong 12" EP.

or even just a kickass single (stratford-on-guy b/w glory)

Believe whatever you want

omg thank you so much for posting that early link! I've never heard her demos before and they sound so much better than the album produced versions. It strikes such a huge chord in the more honest, intimate setting. Im downloading this immediately when I get back home.

A perfect example is Journey great guitarist in Neal Schon and their first three albums which I enjoyed went nowhere. Change stride bring in a keyboardist and Steve Perry to sing and write those god awful ballads and away we go to Arena and stardom. Great for them so what for me I lost a band I enjoyed so what there were plenty more out there to choose from.

I've only heard Journey retrospectively but I can totally see that, Look into the Future in particular I think is a really good album, now completely overshadowed by what came after. Not the end of the world, but a shame nonetheless.

An old thread but this just has to be said..

Beck

Enjoyed the odd song way back when and was never a big fan or owt. But stone the fucking crows this guy has surely threw his hat into the ring for the crown of biggest cunting sell out ever. The fact his music makes EA's Fifa videogame soundtrack now should tell you everything really.

On a grammatical note: idioms yea!

Hmm. Not sure he's a sell-out. He just got lame as all hell. I don't think he's ever really pursued mega-stardom. He just turned into James Taylor.

I love the song he did with Kim a couple years ago, "Deftiended." That was good. But I haven't liked an album of his all the way through since ... well... Odelay, which still sounds pretty good today.

I like "sellout" Beck better than "take me serious" Beck. he's well past his Bowie 80's popstar faze so his best career move should just be to sell out more.

I LOVE Odelay. It's just a great album, and it's great all the way through.
- I like Mellow Gold very much, but it's gotten old and I've had to "re-discover" it like twenty times now, and currently it's old again.
- I like The Information as a whole quite a bit... his last good "album"... but none of it is specifically great

That's all I'm inclined to listen to anymore. I don't actively dislike anything except for Modern Guilt and thatosy recent one... Morning View? The one that eats shit and is boring as hell. I like parts of Mindite Vultures very much, others not so much. Same with Mutations.
I loved One Foot in the Grave when I was young and indie-fried, but I haven't listened to it in a long time and have no real desire to. Some of Guero is good... couple songs.. most of it is shit Odelay rehash. Sea Change I can appreciate for its Bowie-isms and the ballsiness of the transition, but I don't think it was a genius offering by any means.

Odelay was the Paul's Boutique of the '90s. Gotta love it, really, no matter how much shit came later. It's a better record than 99% of artists make in their entire career, and it's one of the best albums of the alternative era. I can't hate on a dude who made a record like that, and who bent David Geffen over his knee and spanked his ass to take full advantage of the record deal and the increased popularity.

Also, there's Beck's connections with SY. He put a bit of EJST&NS into Odelay, and followed their lead a lot in his way in the mid-'90s. And he collaborated with Kim, and he did the split "Pay no Mind"/"Green light" single. So, there's that.

I DO think that he could have been more like SY, and helped other artists in his orbit get discovered, but he was too insular and single minded.

There are worse sellouts. Look at Modest Mouse. One of the best bands in the world crapped out bouncy feel-good pop after a decade of making meth'd out indie death guitar awesomeness about Trailor Trash and the lack of a God. And they became HUGE for a while. Fuck that man. They crapped all over themselves and never redeemed shit. :(

Dave Grohl is a pretty big sellout too.

I have to agree. And I greatly admired Beck.
"I remember when I was 20 and thinking about all the amazing musicians who come out and do a few great things, and then something happens," Beck says. "It's like they go through a door of success and it changes them. The thing I wondered was whether they just burn out or do they get distracted by the success? My dream was to go through that door and still do interesting things."

then he goes off to play on stage with Coldplay or Taylor Swift, who characterizes everything that is wrong with the show business, take for example the following quote:
"Well, my huge dream in this whole thing, which I was told many times was an unrealistic… I was told many times to keep my expectations in check, so I did. But the ultimate dream was, ‘Can we ring that bell? Can we get a million; can we do this for the third time?’ Because we were all very well aware that if we sold a million records this time, it would be the only time in history that someone had done that three times. That was the most insane thing, when we got the first hint that we might end up actually getting to do it. And then my second biggest hope was, ‘Hey, wouldn’t it be insane if we topped what we did with Red?’ And then the fans ended up making that happen, so it’s been just kind of like a dream scenario all the way around. And I just feel so lucky that people seem to understand what I was doing with this album and loved the new direction of it." - Taylor Swift

Compare the dreams.

As Beck sings in that horrendous "anthem" song Dreams, "stop fucking with my dreams yeah".

I'd much rather hear the whole EVOL that Beck has recorded ages ago, instead of this FIFA garbage. Even before that Grammy winning snoozefest Morning Phase, Beck had released some mildly interesting songs, for instance Gimme (especially the extended one). All the songs I've heard from the upcoming "upbeat" album wanes in comparison to it.

The most hilarious thing is that there are people claiming that Beck is returning to Midnite Vultures form with atrocities like "Wow".

Beck is writing Quiff Pop right now. He's catering to his fans. The dynamic has changed where musicians were privy to cool music trends and peers with cool bands, and shared that inspiration with their fans. Forums like these have inversed that and leaving the bands and musicians to study what their fans tastes and inspirations are. It sucks because nothing wows the fans anymore. All you can do is write what they want to hear just to scrape by or make a living. So maybe Becks fans wanted Queef Pop, so what? Rush and Nickelback are Canadian Quiff Rock, yeah they're fucking garbage but I doubt they ever cared. It's embarrassing enough because Rush is from my home town and I fucking hate them but they are really good guys and great technical musicians. Leaves me bitter though.

So he's basically admitted wanting to break sales records with a third million selling record in a row, because apparently that would be insane. Can close the thread now I think we have a winner. I saw him talking about why he wrote dreams; to have something upbeat to play while on tour. Goes on to write a whole album of upbeat...

Oh, no, that was a Taylor Swift quote. Sorry for the confusion.

But in any case, he's flirting with this kind of showbizz vanity now, which he mocked in Midnite Vultures.

Brian Eno did 'Music For Airports' genre because there was a societal need to feel calm flying for the highly common paranoia of a plane crash. Beck is probably doing the same thing with this FIFA sound track you talk of. Music for Society

Dude changes the lyrics to pay no mind when he plays it live - takes out the giant crushing dildo part - obviously to appease his new high brow pop audience. Obviously.

That stutter part in dreams where he plagiarises bowies changes...yea.

What's next a fucking Thurston Adele duet?

We're actually a degree or two closer to that than very thing than some may realize. Duet's not going to happen of course, but they're sharing studio personnel.

Just slag Beck off Severian gan on. You know you want to. Say hew! Beck lad. Why you take massive retrospective shite on your back catalog when playing live eh? Fucks wrong wi ya?! And why are you a cunt now?

It's nearly as bad as the time Spielberg removed the guns from e.t.!!

If anything, that would make me feel more paranoid. Whenever I hear overly obvious patronising manipulation in music I take that feeling, flip it and end up with the music having the opposite effect. Take Beck describing his stuff as upbeat as a hilarious example.

Dust Brothers 4 life, yo!


I think his most amazing connection was the awesome high-five connection he made with Thurston on 120 minutes.

http://37.media.tumblr.com/def36b33b...r6ydo1_500.gif

If QuiffBeck is producing Quiff Pop for FIFA I'm sure it is an attempt to Quell Soccer Hooliganism which is a big problem. A lot of fans go to Football matches to start fights through a psychological conundrum that Latin 'pedi' for 'foot' has an unresolved connection to 'pedo' boy. Why footballers are showcased with children before matches. There is a subconscious distrust of the opposing fans because of this and causes the hysteria called 'hooliganism'. I'm sure Beck believes Quiff Pop is the music that soothes the savage beast.

Hey now, I think Morninf Phase was just about the most tepid, boring, flaccid, vanilla snoozefest known to man. Fucking awful. Just really inexcusable for the guy who fought the sophomore slump with "Where it's At." Seriously. That's one of the single weirdest songs ever to be played on the radio, complete with a distorted-voice breakdown that sounds like Henry Rollins rapping Bad Moon Rising songs to Beastie Boys beats.

He used to chop up hardcore, folk, rap, funk and noise in the coolest way. Everyone from Bob Pollard to Trent Reznor wished they had an ounce of Beck's musical touch. I'm not going to defend whatever the fuck he's up to now. I'm just saying, he did some incredible shit, and he's been hugely successful for 20 years now, so I don't think he suddenly "sold out" for monetary gain.

Honestly though I don't know... I have no idea what these FIFA exploits are that you guys are talking about. I pretty much have no clue what's going on with Beck right now. Especially love. Last time I saw him he was doing a Dylan and the Band thing with the Flaming Lips, who opened for him and backed him (and it was goddamn awesome). So... fuck. Shrug.

I hated Odelay for the longest time. radio and Mtv played those singles to death until what?!....98? argh! plus I was way too cool and busy digging through the back pages of music history.

wasn't till the smoke cleared and after that Prince tribute thing he did that I gave it a thorough listen and yes!!! Odelay is pretty awesome. still holds up even today. I think. I love the production and the details. it's not overproduced like I first thought or, uh, lo-fi.

then again im not really a Beck fan either but, y'know, im from that decade long ago where everyone wore baggy pants and listen to their parents music.

You silly kids. Greatest sellout of all time, bar NONE: Rod Stewart. Four fantastic albums with the Faces, four tremendous solo albums from An Old Raincoat Will Never Let You Down to Never A Dull Moment (the latter and Every Picture Tells A Story are MASTERFUL, really), and then... a living monument to the worst taste imaginable. :(:mad:

The most sellout bands are those that reunite like ten years after and capitalize from the death of a bandmate or something.

Kinda makes the Grateful Dead the biggest then, doesn't it? I mean, I could say The Who, but they were never really *not* sell-puts. Grateful Dead lead a 30-year crusade against empty promises of the material and commercial world. Started an entire counterculture movement. Now they're touring ad infinitum with John Mayer, selling Garcia nostalgia.

I can't imagine how they manage to sell-out shows unless they're just playing "Touch of Grey" over and over and over and over again every night.

Ooh, if suchfriends was still on here you'd never hear the end of it for saying that.