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Old 11.01.2014, 01:27 PM   #18421
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As to William Burroughs.. of course we bring our human shit with us to space, its how our brains and souls work! Its why terraforming is a myth, whats the point of turning Mars into earth? It'd be same shit different toilet err.. planet
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Old 11.01.2014, 05:53 PM   #18422
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Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
Nightbreed is brilliant, have you read the book? Clive barker could have been a Horror flick masrer but his shit is too smart for the slasher flick masses so the Hollywood suits never greenlighted much. Im glad you mentioned the mythology part, same thing with Lord of Illusions or Candyman, Barker creates stories that are worls unto themselves


I never read the book (or any of Barker's for that matter) but I can see your point. I seem to remember the film originally getting pummeled when it was released back in the day because expectations were so high. It seems hard when you have someone like Barker (or for that matter authors like George RR Martin and sections of "Game of Thrones") who build up these expansive, indelible universes in print that can never adequately translate to the screen. Must suck to be a genius writer.
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Old 11.01.2014, 07:48 PM   #18423
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I always loved his films and think he should have made more.. but I.dont think.he much Iiked the movie industry
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Old 11.04.2014, 02:38 PM   #18424
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The photography is undeniably great, but watching the evolution of a highly despicable character for 3 hours is a bit annoying, all the more as the plot isn't that great (it's pretty mechanical and predictable especially in the second half - cf the chapter titles). My least favourite Kubrick film with Eyes wide shut.

Kubrick's flaw is probably a (strong) tendency to be overly technical on the expense of the humanity of his characters.
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Old 11.16.2014, 01:19 PM   #18425
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That one where Dustin Hoffman is a reporter and John Travolta just wants his job back.
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Old 11.16.2014, 01:20 PM   #18426
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Old 11.16.2014, 02:15 PM   #18427
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Old 11.16.2014, 03:37 PM   #18428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torn Curtain

 

The photography is undeniably great, but watching the evolution of a highly despicable character for 3 hours is a bit annoying, all the more as the plot isn't that great (it's pretty mechanical and predictable especially in the second half - cf the chapter titles). My least favourite Kubrick film with Eyes wide shut.

Kubrick's flaw is probably a (strong) tendency to be overly technical on the expense of the humanity of his characters.

oh maaaaan! this is one of my most loved kubrick movies!!! i've seen it a bunch of times

yes i get what you sway about the coldness and emphasis on the technical (and what technique! those wide shots make me nauseous with pleasure) but

a) i don't find lyndon particularly more despicable than the rest of the people around him-- he's just a different social class

b) all tragedies are predictable in their trajectories

no, i get why you don't like it, i do, but that's precise it why i like it so much at the same time. even the choice of that particularly wooden actor (the same thing he does with tom cruise in the other movie you dislike) serves to make the circumstances bigger than the person. you get the same flavor out of early soviet cinema.

check out robert bresson's "notes sur le cinématographe" for an alternative theory on acting ("models" he called them). even if bresson didn't completely follow with it in practice-- it's the approach away from filmed theatre to something else entirely.
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Old 11.16.2014, 06:29 PM   #18429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
oh maaaaan! this is one of my most loved kubrick movies!!! i've seen it a bunch of times

yes i get what you sway about the coldness and emphasis on the technical (and what technique! those wide shots make me nauseous with pleasure) but

a) i don't find lyndon particularly more despicable than the rest of the people around him-- he's just a different social class

b) all tragedies are predictable in their trajectories

no, i get why you don't like it, i do, but that's precise it why i like it so much at the same time. even the choice of that particularly wooden actor (the same thing he does with tom cruise in the other movie you dislike) serves to make the circumstances bigger than the person. you get the same flavor out of early soviet cinema.

check out robert bresson's "notes sur le cinématographe" for an alternative theory on acting ("models" he called them). even if bresson didn't completely follow with it in practice-- it's the approach away from filmed theatre to something else entirely.
Thanks for the input
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Old 11.16.2014, 06:40 PM   #18430
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9/10
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Old 11.16.2014, 07:16 PM   #18431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!

check out robert bresson's "notes sur le cinématographe" for an alternative theory on acting ("models" he called them). even if bresson didn't completely follow with it in practice-- it's the approach away from filmed theatre to something else entirely.

That'd be fine if I thought Kubrick's one dimensional characterisation was intentional, but I just think it's a weakness with him. He just didn't seem very interested in people, which definitely wasn't the case with Bresson. Kubrick was fine when he was dealing with quite cartoon-like 'types' (say with Dr Strangelove or A Clockwork Orange) but he was lost when his characters needed a bit more subtlety. The scenes in Eyes Wide Shut between Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman are an obvious example.
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Old 11.16.2014, 11:08 PM   #18432
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Old 11.17.2014, 12:53 AM   #18433
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Originally Posted by EVOLghost
187
This movie would have been so much better if they hadnt used that red tint.. also, sighs.. sam jackson.. whats in your wallet?
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Old 11.17.2014, 10:06 AM   #18434
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9/10

oh that's definitely on my list. trailer looks awesome. loved antichrist and nymphomaniac, this one is supposed to be in the middle of his so-called "depression trilogy".

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
That'd be fine if I thought Kubrick's one dimensional characterisation was intentional, but I just think it's a weakness with him. He just didn't seem very interested in people, which definitely wasn't the case with Bresson. Kubrick was fine when he was dealing with quite cartoon-like 'types' (say with Dr Strangelove or A Clockwork Orange) but he was lost when his characters needed a bit more subtlety. The scenes in Eyes Wide Shut between Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman are an obvious example.

is it? see i am not so sure of this. lancelot du lac? that movie is not about people. and au hazard balthazar is about a donkey! (and that girl, yes, i have forgotten her whereas the donkey is fresh in my mind). where bresson is more "personal" is where i like him less, eg. the country priest or mouchette.

on the kubrick end, i keep hearing it repeated about his characters, but what about a clockwork orange or full metal jacket or the killing or paths of glory? (i haven't seen lolita so i can't give an opinion on that).

anyway what i like about the kidman/cruise interaction in EWS is precisely cruise's passivity-- she EATS HIM ALIVE. clearly too much woman for the little man. that works very well for me in that movie--goes with his character who is this "nice," shallow (as in lacking depth), naive man. the thing is when kubrick chooses to have a passive/flat male character and casts accordingly people say he doesn't care about people, but i think his choice is totally valid, as with barry lyndon. same thing for bowman in 2001.

maybe i too have a bit of asperger's.

my least favorite kubrick film is probably the shining because i'm not a huge fan of the horror genre-- though it has great & memorable moments/shots/lines/performances.

kubrick wasn't a shooter of melodrama/theatre though, and i like him the best for it.
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Old 11.17.2014, 11:57 AM   #18435
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How the fuck can you NOT like The Shining? What, did you only see the shitty Ryan Reynolds remake??
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Old 11.17.2014, 12:09 PM   #18436
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Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
How the fuck can you NOT like The Shining?

please read again, i never said i didn't like it. "least favorite" of one of my most revered directors does not equal dislike. the one i hated was spartacus but i don't consider that kubrick's anymore (and neither did he for that matter)--some unbearably hammy melodrama in it.

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Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
What, did you only see the shitty Ryan Reynolds remake??

i'm too lazy to google that
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Old 11.17.2014, 01:38 PM   #18437
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Marnie.

Not my favorite Hitch but pretty good.
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Old 11.17.2014, 03:56 PM   #18438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
is it? see i am not so sure of this. lancelot du lac? that movie is not about people. and au hazard balthazar is about a donkey! (and that girl, yes, i have forgotten her whereas the donkey is fresh in my mind). where bresson is more "personal" is where i like him less, eg. the country priest or mouchette.

Sure but Au Hasard is a story about the human condition (from a religious perspective) told using a donkey. It isn't rwally 'about a donkey', though. (IMO).

I just think with Kubrick, his emphasis on technical matters effectively treated humans as props. He treated them that way not because he saw people as props (necessarily) but because his directing style couldn't accommodate them any other way.

Quote:
on the kubrick end, i keep hearing it repeated about his characters, but what about a clockwork orange or full metal jacket or the killing or paths of glory? (i haven't seen lolita so i can't give an opinion on that).

ACO and FMJ don't have characters so much as cyphers. The most memorable 'character' in FMJ is a cartoon drill sergeant required to do no more than shout for an hour. That's less the case earlier in his career. I'll grant you The Killing and PoG have some very good characters ... but it could be argued that Kubrick hadn't quite become 'Kubrick' at that point.

Quote:
Kubrick chooses to have a passive/flat male character and casts accordingly

Then why choose such a dynamic actor as Tom Cruise? Love him or loathe him he's never gonna be first choice if you're going for a 'flat' performance. Harrison Ford is flat, Elijah Wood is flat. Tom Cruise couldn't do flat if his life (or a scene) depended on it.
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Old 11.17.2014, 04:06 PM   #18439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
How the fuck can you NOT like The Shining?

It's the perfect example of Kubrick's strengths and weaknesses. Technically it's perfect but the main characters are just cartoons. Nicholson just goes from mad to madder in one fell swoop, while Shelley Duvall simply spends the last hour of the film blubbering.
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Old 11.17.2014, 06:57 PM   #18440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
Sure but Au Hasard is a story about the human condition (from a religious perspective) told using a donkey. It isn't rwally 'about a donkey', though. (IMO).

the donkey is god, no? when god is there everything goes well, when god is not, everything goes down the shitter. is it god the father or is it jesus? i don't know. but cmon, alex is a cypher but balthazar isn't?

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
I just think with Kubrick, his emphasis on technical matters effectively treated humans as props. He treated them that way not because he saw people as props (necessarily) but because his directing style couldn't accommodate them any other way.

since he was a chess aficionado, we could call them chess pieces. but i don't think they're the robots you're making them out to be. actually, speaking of robots, HAL turns out to be quite human in the end.

maybe kubrick knew that humans are machines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
ACO and FMJ don't have characters so much as cyphers. The most memorable 'character' in FMJ is a cartoon drill sergeant required to do no more than shout for an hour. That's less the case earlier in his career. I'll grant you The Killing and PoG have some very good characters ... but it could be argued that Kubrick hadn't quite become 'Kubrick' at that point.

pvt pyle's mental breakdown is not human? his friend private joker is not human? yes, i know what you're saying (i think) that none of these characters is going to start breaking shakespearian soliloquies about mortal coils and such things-- and that's my point w/ the comparison to bresson. kubrick doesn't do filmed theatre. and he's certainly not lyrical-- he's not concerned much with inner states-- his stuff is out there on the frame and the shot.

even with "cartoonish" movies like strangelove (turgidsson being the most cartoonish character of all of them) there are some hugely moving moments in that film-- like when the wing commander, who has been acting like a fucking machine trying to drop his nuke as rationally as possible, mounts that bomb on the way down and howls like a cowboy on a wild buck? maybe that was a mockery of american yahooism, or maybe that's the guy who is required to act like a killing machine facing his death with some very human bravado. i choose the second reading (though the first one also applies).

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
Then why choose such a dynamic actor as Tom Cruise? Love him or loathe him he's never gonna be first choice if you're going for a 'flat' performance. Harrison Ford is flat, Elijah Wood is flat. Tom Cruise couldn't do flat if his life (or a scene) depended on it.

cruise has energy, but zero depth. by flat i didn't mean a deadpan style, i meant lacking in emotional depths, humanity, nuance. cruise does either cocky smile or earnest chin push forward. that's it. he's pretty, so he looks good on screen, but he's as empty as ryan o'neal was. if you had put somewhere with more "soul" in that role, say someone like willem dafoe, it could never work to conceive of him as a naive fool. tom hanks would have-- he did play a dumbshit in that zemeckis atrocity.

the point with the cruise character is, he's like an overgrown boy, he has no idea what goes in the world, he has no idea about his wife's inner life, and he's shellshocked when the real world is exposed to him. as i said before, kidman eats cruise alive in that movie. she blows him out of the water. she's all instinct and fury and he's... a nice boy... trying to be nice always with his stupid smile, or looking forlorn with his chin and sad eyes. and yes, he's saved because he was nice to someone who could help him but he also has to run back to mama who understands the dark. to me, it fits perfectly.

anyway, speaking of horror movies-- eyes wide shut is one of my favorite horror movies. the thing is i'm not too interested in the supernatural (man possessed by ghosts the little boy can see). it's the natural (power, violence, hierarchy) that scares me shitless. so i read EWS as a kind of that. nature as demon. apollonian boy meets dionysus.

ha ha, okay, anyway. kubrick's chess. not lyrical but epic.

(for melodrama, almodóvar all the way)

--

change of subject: yesterday watched some 60's version of dh lawrence's "women in love". the movie itself was okay, though a bit confusing in the portrayal of gudrun and gerald's relationship. whatever. but glenda jackson! oh mmmm-mmmm! if i had a time machine, ha ha ha.
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