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Old 08.26.2014, 11:46 AM   #18201
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Old 08.27.2014, 03:04 PM   #18202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
THE SEARCHERS

 


i had always rejected this unseen --- because i assumed it was just genocide apologist propaganda, and to an extent it is that... but not quite. amazingly beautifully shot film, great acting, compositions, dialogue-- goes from gut-wrenching to hilarious… john ford was amazing, really, and john wayne was pretty great here in spite of the often nefarious symbolism attached to his image.

i don't know how to explain this movie yet because to me it's not as clear-cut as people want it to be. it could be an acknowledgement of guilt, or it could be a justification for extermination, depending on how you read it. but it's definitely not a rah rah cowboys movie.

still, if you're willing to stomach such uncertainties for the sake of watching a masterpiece (way more entertaining than anything leni riefenstahl ever made), this is a great movie. epic in every sense.

I think the propaganda angle is a bit of a red herring. Certainly as propaganda it'd have to be dismissed as an abject failure. Its message, as you argue, is far too elusive, mainly because Wayne's Ethan remain's one of Hollywood's great ambiguous anti-heroes - up there with Bogart's Rick, Welles' Kane, etc. Whatever else we might say about arch propagandists like Riefenstahl, Eisenstein, Griffith, etc, they went out of their way to avoid any of the very ambiguity that's made The Searchers' one of the most analysed and interpreted films ever. Not to say it doesn't have a political position, but no more than any other Western. Its Ethan's psychological and symbolic complexity - not even his racism is straight forward - and Ford's technical virtuosity, and subtlety and sheer intelligence of vision that I'd say contribute far more to its reputation than its political or ideological content.
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Old 08.28.2014, 01:51 AM   #18203
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Old 08.31.2014, 11:04 PM   #18204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
I think the propaganda angle is a bit of a red herring. Certainly as propaganda it'd have to be dismissed as an abject failure. Its message, as you argue, is far too elusive, mainly because Wayne's Ethan remain's one of Hollywood's great ambiguous anti-heroes - up there with Bogart's Rick, Welles' Kane, etc. Whatever else we might say about arch propagandists like Riefenstahl, Eisenstein, Griffith, etc, they went out of their way to avoid any of the very ambiguity that's made The Searchers' one of the most analysed and interpreted films ever. Not to say it doesn't have a political position, but no more than any other Western. Its Ethan's psychological and symbolic complexity - not even his racism is straight forward - and Ford's technical virtuosity, and subtlety and sheer intelligence of vision that I'd say contribute far more to its reputation than its political or ideological content.

oh i didn't mean that it was a propaganda piece, it's definitely not that, but i can't help to be informed by the ideology of the invader. i mean, ethan aside, all the gringos are good and wonderful people who deserve peace and prosperity. ethan in a way is their guard dog, and yes his flaws are individual but they somehow don't transfer to his fellow conquerors (the army yes but not the homesteaders). yes, he shows the dark side of the enterprise, but the enterprise as a whole remains clean, so to speak, and therefore justified.

this to me works out to something like saying: the warrior is a monster, but protecting our homes requires and justifies such monsters. those monsters are flawed but they serve a good cause. and i sort of agree with that, actually-- internal peace need monsters guarding the borders. but it's just that it's never fully shown how scar, the opposing monster, justifies his own monstrosity and child-kidnapping. he's shown attacking and terrorizing, but never protecting his own people. how come? it's the 50s in america.

meanwhile, we see the atrocities of the cavalry, the massacres and unnecessary killing, but the return home seems to justify everything in the end. doesn't it? it's not like natalie wood ever goes full native.

i get it that the searchers was a step forward in the history of westerns though, and it's a gorgeous movie, really a masterpiece, 10/10, but to me, from my contemporary perspective, the political change looks more like 1/4 step rather than a full one. hey, john ford was a genius, no doubt in my mind, but i can still grimace at the politics of his time event though he moved things forward a little bit.
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Old 08.31.2014, 11:17 PM   #18205
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bertolucci's "novecento". badly translated as "1900" (it's more like "the 20th century" or "the 1900s").

the full 5+ hour cut.

gorgeous.

i mean, there are a lot of problems with the cross-language dubbing--some actors speak english, others italian, others french, so no version sounds perfect because you get funny voices regardless. and the movie itself is far from perfect, but the sheer scope of it, damn, i don't know, it was like reading some epic novel, and immersing yourself into its world.

 

 


and dominique sanda-- how gorgeous was she? (her english dubbing was atrocious though)

 


this was all, generally, fantastic. maybe i have to be outside its influence to get some critical distance but it gave me two incredible afternoons this weekend.
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Old 08.31.2014, 11:32 PM   #18206
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Femina Ridens last night, The Lego Movie tonight.
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Old 09.01.2014, 11:05 PM   #18207
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everyone here must must must see this!!!

 


trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg4OCeSTL08
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Old 09.02.2014, 02:21 AM   #18208
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Watched Eyes Wide Shut again for the first time in 6 years.
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Old 09.02.2014, 07:58 AM   #18209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
everyone here must must must see this!!!

 


trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg4OCeSTL08


Nice one, thanks
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Old 09.06.2014, 09:40 AM   #18210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
everyone here must must must see this!!!



 


trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg4OCeSTL08

i so want to see this. both El Topo and Holy Mountain can be seen on Youtube now. in good quality.
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Old 09.06.2014, 02:38 PM   #18211
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and more Jodorowski on my duck is dead, dvd quality w/various subtitles as needed
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Old 09.06.2014, 03:53 PM   #18212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
everyone here must must must see this!!!

 


trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg4OCeSTL08

Thanks!

Not a huge Jodorowsky fan but I've wanted this to get made ever since I heard about it.
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Old 09.06.2014, 04:57 PM   #18213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
Thanks!

Not a huge Jodorowsky fan but I've wanted this to get made ever since I heard about it.

oh no! it wasn't made. watch the trailer. this is a documentary.

it's about how it wasn't made.

and then how the work done on this movie went on to define 80s films.

insane.
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Old 09.07.2014, 05:23 PM   #18214
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The Congress

what a steaming heap, I haven't seen a movie this bad in a long time.
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Old 09.07.2014, 05:34 PM   #18215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilduclo
The Congress

what a steaming heap, I haven't seen a movie this bad in a long time.

Could be worse, you could have had to sit through two hours of the actual Congress on C-SPAN
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Old 09.08.2014, 08:16 AM   #18216
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better and more emotive acting
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Old 09.08.2014, 04:48 PM   #18217
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too much weird singing for my taste and why does the main character have to be "anorexic"? ugh...
also, it seemed like they were trying too much to seem like a wes anderson movie. but without any success, in my opinion
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Yeah, hillarious. I guess because I'm OLD (all of 60, oh, my god), I'm a pedophile. People around here don't have any sense of humor or class, yourself included. So fuck you, too, you stupid cunt.
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Old 09.08.2014, 04:57 PM   #18218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pony
 


too much weird singing for my taste and why does the main character have to be "anorexic"? ugh...
also, it seemed like they were trying too much to seem like a wes anderson movie. but without any success, in my opinion

ha ha ha

looks like a belle and sebastian record cover

i can almost hear the lyrics in my head

---

HOLD ON A SECOND

IT IS A FUCKING BELLE AND SEBASTIAN MOVIE!!!

jeezus. had to be! my nose always knows. fuck that shit!
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Old 09.08.2014, 04:58 PM   #18219
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i think one of belle and sebastian made the movie, or he at least is responsible for the music
(why am i surprised i didnt like it?)
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Quote:
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Yeah, hillarious. I guess because I'm OLD (all of 60, oh, my god), I'm a pedophile. People around here don't have any sense of humor or class, yourself included. So fuck you, too, you stupid cunt.
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Old 09.08.2014, 05:06 PM   #18220
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yeah i did a search of the title after i posted and it turned up his name. then i started cackling. because the words "god" and "girl" and those faces/haircuts and the typography had been such dead giveaways in the first place.

===


ps oh it was an album in 2009 ha ha ha. even if i had seen it already--the stench is the stench.
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