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Old 02.24.2014, 03:25 PM   #17841
Rob Instigator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
Bullshit. When they try to "add it all up" nothing makes sense. At this stage in the game, the instant of the Big Bang and the theoretical singularity of matter which preceded it are mathematically speaking impossible, hence Rob's correct assertion that such is really bordering on speculative cosmology rather than substantive science.



Yes, but when we "rewind" the clock using math, the results begin to stop making mathematical sense. Currently, science can't explain how all the matter in the universe existed as a singularity because the equations don't add up. Could they in the future? Possibly. But wishful thinking isn't exactly hard facts of science. Also and again, the two prevailing cosmologies work indepentently, but don't mutually explain each other. So there is a gap. I'm not promoting God(s) as a cause or bridge of these gaps, that would be intellectually disingenuous of me. However, REAL science it to at the same time be perfectly honest about its current limitations. Read some Stephen Hawkings about the concept of "time" .. very interesting stuff. And yes, contrary to you prejudice against me dead_battery, I am more informed about science then you'd like to admit

actually, no one has ever verified that all matter./energy was in a singularity. singularities may not even exist, not even in black holes. they are just a sign that our math is wrong, like infinities.
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Old 02.24.2014, 03:28 PM   #17842
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Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
Bullshit. When they try to "add it all up" nothing makes sense. At this stage in the game, the instant of the Big Bang and the theoretical singularity of matter which preceded it are mathematically speaking impossible, hence Rob's correct assertion that such is really bordering on speculative cosmology rather than substantive science.



Yes, but when we "rewind" the clock using math, the results begin to stop making mathematical sense. Currently, science can't explain how all the matter in the universe existed as a singularity because the equations don't add up. Could they in the future? Possibly. But wishful thinking isn't exactly hard facts of science. Also and again, the two prevailing cosmologies work indepentently, but don't mutually explain each other. So there is a gap. I'm not promoting God(s) as a cause or bridge of these gaps, that would be intellectually disingenuous of me. However, REAL science it to at the same time be perfectly honest about its current limitations. Read some Stephen Hawkings about the concept of "time" .. very interesting stuff. And yes, contrary to you prejudice against me dead_battery, I am more informed about science then you'd like to admit


it only "doesn't make sense" because the math we are using is wrong. it will make sense eventually unless we go extinct before working it out. at least you admit this.

you probably are more informed about physics than me cos i dont know much.

also, the problem here is that if you are western/christian descended when you do metaphysics you are nearly 100% of the time crippled by your unconscious cultural biases. therefore you are actually looking for narrative, a beginning middle and end, and creationism.

in buddhism reality is a perfect mandala whose centre and edges are not definable. this is a better way of looking at the universe than trying to do the impossible, which is posit a void of pure nothingness and then try and come up with a reason why something appeared in that void. cos you can't.
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Old 02.24.2014, 03:29 PM   #17843
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Originally Posted by dead_battery

you probably are more informed about physics than me cos i dont know much.

.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
and the immaculate conception postulates a haploid christ

Yes, that is exactly why the Orthodox Church explicitly rejects the Latin heresy of the Immaculate Conception of Mary because the result would be an imaginary Jesus with not real humanity. As Rob said, such is merely a rehash of Gnostism.

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Originally Posted by Rob Instigator
Nope. Go read about it man. They make guesses as to what could have been but that is not science. They admit that it is just fools guessing. actual science deals with verifiable experimental results. anyone trying to explain the initial state of the Universe, is doing metaphysics.


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Old 02.24.2014, 03:33 PM   #17844
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Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
Yes, that is exactly why the Orthodox Church explicitly rejects the Latin heresy of the Immaculate Conception of Mary because the result would be an imaginary Jesus with not real humanity. As Rob said, such is merely a rehash of Gnostism..

sure, but after 3 days, the dead really stink.
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Old 02.24.2014, 03:45 PM   #17845
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Originally Posted by Rob Instigator
actually, no one has ever verified that all matter./energy was in a singularity. singularities may not even exist, not even in black holes. they are just a sign that our math is wrong, like infinities.

The atomic bomb is evidence of singularity as it effectively proved that E really does =MC^2 because the given mass of uranium was converted into the pure energy observed in the explosion. If the mass of a small sample of a radioactive element in the proper conditions can be converted into pure energy, it is very suggestive of the possibility of a previous singularity between all the matter and energy of the Universe. Of course, there are Multiverse theories in tandem with string theory which can shatter this need, but their math is even less reconcilable with observations from reality than is Newtonian/Quantum math..

Now the question is, not can singularity exist, but was there ever a time where there was universal singularity? The current math doesn't support this, but the current math only really works if inevitably there was a singularity. So science is searching for evidence or an mathematical explanation of this singularity, otherwise we probably have to change ALL our math, and much like a middle school Algebra student, most of us would rather just try to fix one or two errors on our homework rather than concede that maybe its all bullshit.

Oh yeah, and to get back on topic, I watched Low Down Dirty Shame yesterday and a bit of Celtic Pride. I was wondering, what the fuck were we all thinking in the mid-1990s to think the Wayans brothers/sister were mainstream box office superstars? How was Keenan or Damon ever honestly casted for even remotely legitimate roles??? Really? Was it a big, cosmic joke on the 1990s? Who was fucking with us, the Wayans or the studios? Both?
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Old 02.24.2014, 04:00 PM   #17846
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Indeed. The Wayans Bros make terrible flicks.
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Old 02.24.2014, 04:04 PM   #17847
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Originally Posted by Rob Instigator
Indeed. The Wayans Bros make terrible flicks.

 

 

 

In Loving Color is priceless though..
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Old 02.24.2014, 04:08 PM   #17848
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Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
Yes, that is exactly why the Orthodox Church explicitly rejects the Latin heresy of the Immaculate Conception of Mary because the result would be an imaginary Jesus with not real humanity. As Rob said, such is merely a rehash of Gnostism.

i forgot to add:

then god the father is a rapist like zeus, and joseph a cuckold

it's in the bible
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Old 02.24.2014, 04:10 PM   #17849
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Originally Posted by !@#$%!
i forgot to add:

then god the father is a rapist like zeus, and joseph a cuckold

it's in the bible

 


Nope. Actually the explicit theology of Mariology is that the Virgin Mary accepted God's will voluntarily. The theologians mention time and time again that Our Lady had the freedom and agency to reject God's offer, to reject the Incarnation, but what made her unique was she responded to the invitation, "Let it be according to the Lord, I am His maid-servant."
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Old 02.24.2014, 04:16 PM   #17850
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Yeah, but most people who read the bible(s) can hardly be bothered to read.
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Old 02.24.2014, 04:18 PM   #17851
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I think that one of the great truths of metaphysics, religion, philosophy, etc. is that our Universe is of a dual nature. This being so, the fact that one law governs the world of the large/massive (General Relativity) and one law governs the world of the tiny/light (QED - quantum electrodynamics) and that the two co-exist yet "seem" irreconcilable may just be the way everything is. It does not invalidate one or the other.

Good does not invalidate evil. It exists because of it, or in response to it, or in opposition to it etc.
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Old 02.24.2014, 04:20 PM   #17852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
[
Nope. Actually the explicit theology of Mariology is that the Virgin Mary accepted God's will voluntarily. The theologians mention time and time again that Our Lady had the freedom and agency to reject God's offer, to reject the Incarnation, but what made her unique was she responded to the invitation, "Let it be according to the Lord, I am His maid-servant."
right! the "lord". st. joseph cornudo y contento. and you complain that the math of physics doesn't "reconcile". religion needs to die already.
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Old 02.24.2014, 04:22 PM   #17853
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this didnt devolve into a dick fight and suchfriends even pmed me thanking me for being civil yet i distinctly remember writing an angry insulting post. but i must have got distracted by a video and clicked the x.
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Old 02.24.2014, 04:23 PM   #17854
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duality is wrong
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Old 02.24.2014, 04:25 PM   #17855
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Originally Posted by Genteel Death
Yeah, but most people who read the bible(s) can hardly be bothered to read.


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Old 02.24.2014, 04:28 PM   #17856
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Originally Posted by !@#$%!
right! the "lord". st. joseph cornudo y contento. and you complain that the math of physics doesn't "reconcile". religion needs to die already.

religion needs to die because its about believing in things cos you want them to be true, which is the opposite of submitting to knowledge and the truth. we have to deal with reality and the truth whether we like it or not.

but what needs to happen is the ongoing cross cultural exchange between the east and west needs to continue, despite the myriad dominant reactionary forces that are trying to halt it.

the reason it needs to continue is that for a western person, only a traumatic encounter with buddhism or related approaches can violently unclog all the unconscious metaphysical biases that creep into our conception of the world and cripple our culture and science.

also buddhist metaphysics line up with what quantum physics neuroscience et all are discovering and therefore offer us a cultural framework with which to navigate them.

the truth is an indifferent reality that does not care about us. we are breeding for the sake of fufilling our embedded genetic replicators. it's a cycle of birth/death suffering that has no reason or purpose, will eventually go extinct and produces vast suffering and atrocity.

we have to deal with nihilism rather than denying it. science implies nihilism but of course nihilism itself is nihilistic, in that trying to "hold it" as a viewpoint is only a slightly lesser form of delusion.
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Old 02.24.2014, 04:35 PM   #17857
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Originally Posted by dead_battery
religion needs to die because its about believing in things cos you want them to be true
exactly. suchfriends complains about how "mathematics doesn't reconcile" while denying the mental somersaults he must perform constantly in order to justify the belief that his fairytale actually happened on earth. the beam, the eye, i forget how that shit goes-- an admonition for people to look at their own bullshit first.
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Old 02.24.2014, 04:38 PM   #17858
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Originally Posted by dead_battery
duality is wrong

it is only the illusion of duality. Just like gravity is bent space time but gives the illusion that there are attractive forces at work.
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Old 02.24.2014, 04:41 PM   #17859
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its not really that important to me to attack suchfriends religion.

i think if you are truly scientific and not some new atheist douche whose just replicating christianity only with man as god, then you see religion as a memetic code used for social regulation. that's all fair enough really because i know that the world outside of religion is often just as hellish. religion can help some people in very limited ways and it's a way of people to form social bonds and get each others backs. its still based on delusions and lies, but i don't believe in belief so what people believe is not really as important as what they do.

but its still very problematic for the politics it pushes, the greed and abuse that it perpetuates, and the ignorance and handicapping of progress.

what i have to attack are the instances he says things that aren't true or the instances when he promotes ignorance and the post modern delusion that we just can't know certain things. cos this is really just building dams trying to hold of the semantic apocalypse
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Old 02.24.2014, 04:41 PM   #17860
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it is only the illusion of duality. Just like gravity is bent space time but gives the illusion that there are attractive forces at work.

well ok. but i still reject dualism and idealism totally
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