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Old 03.04.2014, 05:44 PM   #17841
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Robert Schunk, I was reading some astronomy magazine with an interesting article about increasing discoveries of objects orbiting our Sun in the Kuiper Belt, and how these objects are all effected particularly by Neptune's gravity. Some folks are suggesting that it could be evidence to support an entirely new cosmology for planetary formation. New "discoveries" of Jupiter (and larger) sized "planets" orbiting much closer to their relative stars than where our gas giants also are a part of this. Current theories suggest planets formed at or near their current places, with the gas giants around the middle and the rocky Earth-sized planets nearer the sun. New theories suggest that possibly the gas giants can form nearer to their stars and then move out. How does Neptune play into this? If Neptune is a gas giant that formed nearer to our sun and then moved outward later its gravity could have attracted the 200 or so planetary sized objects in the Kuiper Belt. I thought this ridiculously interesting, it essentially flips the planetary formation model of the past 50 years on its head!

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily...iper-belt.html
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Old 03.04.2014, 06:20 PM   #17842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
Robert Schunk, I was reading some astronomy magazine with an interesting article about increasing discoveries of objects orbiting our Sun in the Kuiper Belt, and how these objects are all effected particularly by Neptune's gravity. Some folks are suggesting that it could be evidence to support an entirely new cosmology for planetary formation. New "discoveries" of Jupiter (and larger) sized "planets" orbiting much closer to their relative stars than where our gas giants also are a part of this. Current theories suggest planets formed at or near their current places, with the gas giants around the middle and the rocky Earth-sized planets nearer the sun. New theories suggest that possibly the gas giants can form nearer to their stars and then move out. How does Neptune play into this? If Neptune is a gas giant that formed nearer to our sun and then moved outward later its gravity could have attracted the 200 or so planetary sized objects in the Kuiper Belt. I thought this ridiculously interesting, it essentially flips the planetary formation model of the past 50 years on its head!


I don't know what you've been reading, but the "switched" position of Neptune relative to that of Uranus involves gravitational interaction with Jupiter. Jupiter's the planet responsible for the Asteroid Belt, as the Asteroid Belt is a planet that can't get going because any time the planet accretes to the point that her own gravity causes her to compact into spherical shape, Jupiter's gravity rips her apart.

The bulk of your post concerns solar systems with "Hot Jupiters", which are Jupiter-class planets that orbit their suns well within tiny Mercury's orbit around out own sun (such as Bellerophon and Dinky) and whose year lasts about four or so Earth days. These are solar systems OLDER than our own, in which the Jupiter-class planets, which can ONLY form in the cold outer regions of their solar systems, augured into much tighter orbits, thus tossing the rocky pebbles into the interstellar void in a huge game of gravitational pinball. Our own solar system is young, yet born of a very old stellar progression, as is shown by the fact that our solar system consists of only trace amounts of elements heavier than iron (such as gold, silver, uranium, etc.), which can only be formed in supernovae sufficiently energetic to fuse elements heavier than iron ON THEIR OWN!!!, which gave birth to at least two daughter stars, which then exploded in less energetic supernovae which could not produce new elements on their own (i.e., they could produce no elements heavier than the heaviest element that a dying star is capable of producing on its own, that being iron, which is why Earth and Venus have molten iron cores which generate magnetic fields sufficient to keep the solar wind from blasting our atmospheres into outer space, and which is why Mercury is so dense and Mars so red (lots and lots of iron), and why meteors are so iron-rich. Our own sun, like the stars in our own birth group and that of our neighboring and intertwined birth group (called our "local puff") will not go nova, but will simply burn out into white dwarves (glowing cinders of stars whose nuclear furnaces have burned out by turning into iron and are merely shedding residual energy), and, ultimately, black dwarves (burnt-out coals of stars, none of which yet exist because the universe is too young to have produced any yet).

And, by the way, Kuyper Belt Objects do not orbit Neptune. They orbit the Sun. So guess who's still the gravitational boss of the Solar System?
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Old 03.04.2014, 06:42 PM   #17843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Schunk
I don't know what you've been reading, but the "switched" position of Neptune relative to that of Uranus involves gravitational interaction with Jupiter..

No, not talking about Neptune's orbit, talking about how Neptune's gravity effects objects in the Kuiper Belt.. been reading the link I posted and a couple of other things I searched..

Quote:
The bulk of your post concerns solar systems with "Hot Jupiters", which are Jupiter-class planets that orbit their suns well within tiny Mercury's orbit around out own sun (such as Bellerophon and Dinky) and whose year lasts about four or so Earth days..

This is what I'm talking about..
Quote:
The hot objects must have a different history from the cold
objects — yet they’re orbiting in the same region of space.
What did all of this mean? A major clue came from
outside the solar system entirely. At the same time as the
Kuiper Belt was first being surveyed, astronomers had
also begun to discover planets around nearby stars. Many
of these exoplanets were so-called “hot Jupiters,” giant
worlds on insanely tight orbits around their stars. Given
what (little) we know about planet formation, these boil-
ing-hot gas planets couldn’t possibly have formed in their
present locations. But that meant that, against conven-
tional wisdom, these gigantic worlds must somehow have
formed very far from their stars, then migrated inward.
If exo-Jupiters can move inward, researchers reasoned,
then perhaps the giant planets in our own solar system
are not in their original locations. They saw that if Nep-
tune had migrated outward since it formed and intruded
into a primordial belt of cometlike objects, it would have
eaten a few of them and scattered the rest like billiard
balls, trapping some in orbital resonances and sending
others inward toward the Sun.

A few of the inward-moving objects stayed safely in the
outer solar system as Trojans. But the majority of these
travelers would have kept right on going. The resulting
cascade of comets into the inner solar system could have
contributed to the Late Heavy Bombardment, thought to
have pelted the inner planets and moons a few hundred
million years after the solar system formed (S&T: August
2011, page 20).
The present distribution of orbits in the Kuiper Belt
is thus a crime scene, preserving evidence for the havoc
wreaked when Neptune invaded its domain. Dynamicists
still don’t know exactly how Neptune perpetrated the
crime, though — it’s hard to write a history of Neptune’s
motion that can create the various “excited” populations in
the Kuiper Belt (the resonant, scattered, and hot classical
objects) while leaving the cold classical disk unscathed.
In the early 2000s, Mike Brown (Caltech), Chad
Trujillo (Gemini North Observatory), and David Rabino-
witz (Yale) began new CCD-assisted surveys specifically
designed to detect large trans-Neptunian objects, result-
ing in the discoveries of several of the largest now known.
The KBO discovery rate peaked in 2003, with nearly 200
discovered that year; in 2011, fewer than 20 were found.
The discovery rate has dropped not just because we’ve
found all the bright ones, but because the rarefied group
of astronomers working on this distant part of the solar
system has largely moved on from describing them as a
population to studying them as individuals.


Part of the evidence of gas giants forming further in the solar system is the reality that we currently find them further away in the solar system. But if they can move? The "hot Jupiters" are potential evidence of them moving inward, and some of the solar orbits of objects in the Kuiper Belt may be evidence Neptune's migration outward. If Neptune migrated outward, it can flip the zones around a bit. I'm not saying these giants formed near the stars, but some evidence possibly suggests nearer than previously thought, and also, if Neptune is moving outward clearly it formed closer than its current location.

Quote:
And, by the way, Kuyper Belt Objects do not orbit Neptune. They orbit the Sun. So guess who's still the gravitational boss of the Solar System?

Do you ever even read my posts or just trash talk them blindly??
I never said they orbited Neptune, I was talking about how Neptune's gravity has a measurable effect on their orbits around the Sun.


But thanks for being a total prick about it.. Its always nice to talk with you
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Old 03.04.2014, 06:57 PM   #17844
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Well, that's not what you appear to have said in your original post, unless you are simply careless concerning your means of scientific self-expression. Learn to write well, so that I can at least rest assured that I'm actually instructing you, as opposed to merely debating that which you'd never intended to say.

Are you even aware of the fact that that which you said and that which you quoted in support of your statement are at odds?
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Old 03.04.2014, 07:02 PM   #17845
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Originally Posted by Robert Schunk
Well, that's not what you appear to have said in your original post, unless you are simply careless concerning your means of scientific self-expression. Learn to write well, so that I can at least rest assured that I'm actually instructing you, as opposed to merely debating that which you'd never intended to say.

You're always such a nice person Robert, keep up the good work!
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Old 03.04.2014, 07:40 PM   #17846
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No, no, no, no, NO!!!! Ice giants can hardly form near suns. Which is what you appear to suggest, and which your own cites clearly refute.

***

You're changing your premise in order to defend your stance. WAY not allowed in science, and WAY not the first time I've seen you do this.

***

If you want me to teach you, I'll BUST MY BUTT in order so to do. If not, kindly refrain from wasting my time.
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Old 03.04.2014, 07:44 PM   #17847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Schunk
No, no, no, no, NO!!!! Ice giants can hardly form near suns. Which is what you appear to suggest, and which your own cites clearly refute.

I didn't say near the sun. I said nearer to the sun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous


If Neptune migrated outward, it can flip the zones around a bit. I'm not saying these giants formed near the stars, but some evidence possibly suggests nearer than previously thought


***
Quote:
You're changing your premise in order to defend your stance. WAY not allowed in science, and WAY not the first time I've seen you do this.


Changed my premise? In which way. Want to read my original post? Here it is..

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
New theories suggest that possibly the gas giants can form nearer to their stars and then move out. l

I can easily be wrong about the science, but I never changed any premise, you just haven't been reading. You said I said Kuiper Belt objects orbit Neptune, I never said that. Now you're saying I said ice giants form near stars, never said that either. What I said was that Kuiper Belt objects are influenced by Neptune's gravity, and there is in their orbits evidence to suggest that Neptune as moved outward, just like the "hot Jupiters" are evidence of those exo-planets moving inward. What we're talking about is the movement.. But I don't think we are talking about anything. I can be totally wrong about the science, BUT you are totally not right in what you have been accusing me of saying.


***

Quote:

If you want me to teach you, I'll BUST MY BUTT in order so to do. If not, kindly refrain from wasting my time.

Oh, you're ever so kind.
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Old 03.06.2014, 08:52 AM   #17848
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GENTLEMEN BRONCOS

 


i love the weird rural sensibilities of the director (same as napoleon dynamite). i liked the movie, it was funny and depressing at the same time-- t wasn't a great movie but it was goofy enough to have me laughing often. unlike napoleon dynamite though, i'm not sure i'd rewatch this a million times-- though some scenes are fucking brilliant (if you like that sort of stuff).

THE KIDS ARE ALRIGHT

 


possibly the Ultimate White People Movie (in America, anyway). it's got pretty much everything listed here, and then some:

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com

watching it can be a hilarious exercise in anthropology. like watching national geographic.

having said that: nice characters, good actors, good premise, the story develops well. having said that (again): in spite of the auspicious beginnings, i didn't like the end-- i get the logic of the story, but it feels sort of forced/jammed into the last third of the film, and that was irritating. a good movie shouldn't be a "surprise" movie, because that ruins all the expectations that it set you up to build. e.g.: wally has dinner with andre in new york, they talk about life and their work for hours (andre is a theatre guy and has been traveling), the audience somehow gets involved in all that, at the end of the dinner andre gets into his flying saucer and heads for the stars-- what???
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Old 03.06.2014, 11:06 AM   #17849
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Some i've been watching lately.

Love Exposure - The length is something like 4.5 hours. Ace.
Benny's Video - Animal killing for our entertainment ...YAY!
Confessions.
5 Broken cameras - Disturbing killings, couldn't sleep afterwards...
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Old 03.06.2014, 02:32 PM   #17850
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The Contractor.

 

It was only 2/3 terrible as I expected..
I was in a drunk induced coma, unable
to change the channel or even do anything..
so I watched it.. seen worse.
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Old 03.06.2014, 05:45 PM   #17851
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Bitman Begins
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Old 03.06.2014, 06:59 PM   #17852
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I watched Spring Breakers. I liked it but I can't take anything Harmony Korine does seriously. I am a fan but his movies mean fuck all unless you're a wannabe rapist who plays for the local football team in a small American town. Nice stuff, I'd probably get it if I was a little less gay and sensitive. How do I become less gay and sensitive?
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Old 03.06.2014, 07:31 PM   #17853
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I watched Spring Breakers. I liked it but I can't take anything Harmony Korine does seriously. I am a fan but his movies mean fuck all unless you're a wannabe rapist who plays for the local football team in a small American town. Nice stuff, I'd probably get it if I was a little less gay and sensitive. How do I become less gay and sensitive?

i don't know, but i have a visceral dislike of harkor. couldn't even tell you why. i've watched his movies as one does homework. gummo had an okay soundtrack and some memorable stuff but it was depressing. julien donkey boy i think i turned off a quarter of the way. kids i found too cynical. didn't watch the one about the impersonators and probably won't watch this one unless someone here convinces me.

honest question: does gay = sensitive? aren't there ubermacho gays in like, i don't know, the pirates? (honest question dammit).
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Old 03.06.2014, 08:22 PM   #17854
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Originally Posted by !@#$%!
probably won't watch this one unless someone here convinces me. .

If yr not into him, I'd avoid it. Normally I say "At least start it," but in this case you might not want to bother. It's very shallow. I've watched and skimmed it a few times, and it's really not a biting satire or even much of a comment on anything, and you won't care about the characters or what happens to them.

But I am sort of fascinated by Larry Clark, Ken Park and Bully especially. They are just so fucked up. How do they get made? Dude auto-erotic-asphyxiates himself to what looks like a real orgasm in KP! It's a real actor. I've seen him in other stuff. How do you get an actor to do that?

On the one hand, they are silly over-the-top movies. On the other, real things really happen. I can't even say if I like them or not. Just sorta fascinating.
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Old 03.06.2014, 08:32 PM   #17855
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Originally Posted by Genteel Death
. How do I become less gay and sensitive?

Suga Free can help you with that

 
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Old 03.06.2014, 09:34 PM   #17856
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Originally Posted by evollove
If yr not into him, I'd avoid it. Normally I say "At least start it," but in this case you might not want to bother. It's very shallow. I've watched and skimmed it a few times, and it's really not a biting satire or even much of a comment on anything, and you won't care about the characters or what happens to them.

thx mane. i'll steer clear then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
But I am sort of fascinated by Larry Clark, Ken Park and Bully especially. They are just so fucked up. How do they get made? Dude auto-erotic-asphyxiates himself to what looks like a real orgasm in KP! It's a real actor. I've seen him in other stuff. How do you get an actor to do that?

On the one hand, they are silly over-the-top movies. On the other, real things really happen. I can't even say if I like them or not. Just sorta fascinating.

& thx agin. i'll add it to my homework file & report one of these days.
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Old 03.08.2014, 12:06 PM   #17857
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Some fuking film erm yea......

Precious - Mariah Carey wank weyyyy
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Old 03.08.2014, 12:07 PM   #17858
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13 assassins the Takeshi Mike remake.
Really good hum. yea likey like film entertain...
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Old 03.08.2014, 12:09 PM   #17859
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Another one by our catholic lord saviour Takesh esh

Gozu. Came off as some David lynch rip off but overall enjoyable.
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Old 03.08.2014, 07:59 PM   #17860
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Hey, demonrail - I watched this one again!

"Flaming Creatures" (dir. Jack Smith, 1963) - A re-watch for me of NYC-based Smith's third "underground" feature (first saw this at the Lux Cinema in Hoxton in 2000). No real plot to speak of - mainly depictions of LGBT-style sexuality, with cross-dressing by the male leads thrown in. What could in theory have been a decent effort mainly induced boredom in me - there's a 10 minute group-sex scene (mostly simulated) which didn't exactly hit the spot for me (and the male-female sex scene made me go "hmmm..." for overtly-groping reasons). After the sex scene is over, there's really not much to write home about - just shots of the performers posing and lounging around in their get-ups, a bit more erotica...and that's it.

I know that Smith has got a fairly hard-hitting reputation in various film circles, but on the strength of this, I'm once again completely baffled as to where this reputation comes from. I think that the lack of structure and solidity definitely works against this film, and the actors attempt a laconic insouciance that simply doesn't work. I mean, Smith should I guess be credited for attempting a study of fluid sexuality (and for which he got hammered for on legal terms by the NYC authorities at the time), but he simply hasn't captured the essence of what this sexuality actually is.

The print in question I saw was in very poor quality - a lot of stock deterioration is on this copy, making it virtually unwatchable in places. There are also multiple sound drop-outs on the soundtrack - songs used suddenly cut off, never to re-appear (or re-appear in poor sound quality). The film is shot on 8mm stock on one camera, and although the editing is OK, I think (even at 42 minutes) some trimming could had taken place to tighten up the whole flow of the film.

Although my reaction this time is not as negative as it was on my initial viewing all them years ago, I can't help but feel that I'm either totally missing the point of this film, or a case of me simply finding this sphere of "underground" film-making not to my taste at all.

If you are a follower of this genre of cinema, I guess that you should give it a go at least once. Otherwise, I'm afraid to say that I can't recommend this one to the casual viewer.
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