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Old 02.24.2014, 04:22 PM   #17821
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this didnt devolve into a dick fight and suchfriends even pmed me thanking me for being civil yet i distinctly remember writing an angry insulting post. but i must have got distracted by a video and clicked the x.
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Old 02.24.2014, 04:23 PM   #17822
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duality is wrong
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Old 02.24.2014, 04:25 PM   #17823
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Originally Posted by Genteel Death
Yeah, but most people who read the bible(s) can hardly be bothered to read.


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Old 02.24.2014, 04:28 PM   #17824
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Originally Posted by !@#$%!
right! the "lord". st. joseph cornudo y contento. and you complain that the math of physics doesn't "reconcile". religion needs to die already.

religion needs to die because its about believing in things cos you want them to be true, which is the opposite of submitting to knowledge and the truth. we have to deal with reality and the truth whether we like it or not.

but what needs to happen is the ongoing cross cultural exchange between the east and west needs to continue, despite the myriad dominant reactionary forces that are trying to halt it.

the reason it needs to continue is that for a western person, only a traumatic encounter with buddhism or related approaches can violently unclog all the unconscious metaphysical biases that creep into our conception of the world and cripple our culture and science.

also buddhist metaphysics line up with what quantum physics neuroscience et all are discovering and therefore offer us a cultural framework with which to navigate them.

the truth is an indifferent reality that does not care about us. we are breeding for the sake of fufilling our embedded genetic replicators. it's a cycle of birth/death suffering that has no reason or purpose, will eventually go extinct and produces vast suffering and atrocity.

we have to deal with nihilism rather than denying it. science implies nihilism but of course nihilism itself is nihilistic, in that trying to "hold it" as a viewpoint is only a slightly lesser form of delusion.
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Old 02.24.2014, 04:35 PM   #17825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_battery
religion needs to die because its about believing in things cos you want them to be true
exactly. suchfriends complains about how "mathematics doesn't reconcile" while denying the mental somersaults he must perform constantly in order to justify the belief that his fairytale actually happened on earth. the beam, the eye, i forget how that shit goes-- an admonition for people to look at their own bullshit first.
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Old 02.24.2014, 04:38 PM   #17826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_battery
duality is wrong

it is only the illusion of duality. Just like gravity is bent space time but gives the illusion that there are attractive forces at work.
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Old 02.24.2014, 04:41 PM   #17827
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its not really that important to me to attack suchfriends religion.

i think if you are truly scientific and not some new atheist douche whose just replicating christianity only with man as god, then you see religion as a memetic code used for social regulation. that's all fair enough really because i know that the world outside of religion is often just as hellish. religion can help some people in very limited ways and it's a way of people to form social bonds and get each others backs. its still based on delusions and lies, but i don't believe in belief so what people believe is not really as important as what they do.

but its still very problematic for the politics it pushes, the greed and abuse that it perpetuates, and the ignorance and handicapping of progress.

what i have to attack are the instances he says things that aren't true or the instances when he promotes ignorance and the post modern delusion that we just can't know certain things. cos this is really just building dams trying to hold of the semantic apocalypse
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Old 02.24.2014, 04:41 PM   #17828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Instigator
it is only the illusion of duality. Just like gravity is bent space time but gives the illusion that there are attractive forces at work.

well ok. but i still reject dualism and idealism totally
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Old 02.24.2014, 04:44 PM   #17829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_battery
its not really that important to me to attack suchfriends religion.



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Old 02.24.2014, 04:52 PM   #17830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_battery
its not really that important to me to attack suchfriends religion.

i don't care to attack his own peculiar brand of religion (there are worse ones to worry about), but when he starts his ignorant antiscientific tirades it's like my mind breaks out in hives and i start rolling eyes like an epileptic.

i'm not against questioning anything, especially science-- shit, science is based on questions and it sure knows what it doesn't know about-- but the guy preaches with such close-minded conviction it's pathological. socrates knew that he knew nothing, but suchfriends is convinced he knows everything. and he never makes mistakes!
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Old 02.24.2014, 04:56 PM   #17831
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he's won the magical belief lottery
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Old 02.24.2014, 05:02 PM   #17832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_battery
he's won the magical belief lottery

well, religion is a matter of faith, and to that extent people require conviction. most people need some kind of belief to an extent. fair enough.

the problem is when everything else outside of religion becomes a matter of faith and conviction, and the mind closes and has no room left for doubt. in other words, everything becomes religion. it's not a lottery prize, it's an illness.
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Old 02.24.2014, 05:03 PM   #17833
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you all seem like you think you know everything, no point picking out a specific individual lololol
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Old 02.24.2014, 05:06 PM   #17834
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i dont hold faith and conviction in a high regard.

i also dont believe in the need for belief. its just a story we tell ourselves because we are dedicated to the idea that nihilism can be overcome through denying it, because our beliefs must be stronger than reality because reality is only an expression of our mind or some other shit.

-

but yes, that's EXACTLY THE PROBLEM. when they attack things outside of religion. they want to build up the symbolic power of their religion, so they need things for it to crush/undermine. science is the one they chose now because science is their biggest threat and they realize on a sub conscious level that it's going to fucking decimate them. they've been bluffing and playing for time. that's what the post modern era has all been about. failed attempts to put off the inevitable. the vain hope that this failure itself means something.
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Old 02.24.2014, 05:07 PM   #17835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keep poppin pimples
you all seem like you think you know everything, no point picking out a specific individual lololol

the idea of knowing everything doesn't make a lot of sense. however i have to admit to becoming very cognitively closed in recent years probably out of desperation.
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Old 02.24.2014, 05:10 PM   #17836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keep poppin pimples
you all seem like you think you know everything, no point picking out a specific individual lololol


i fuck up all the time. also, i make a lot of typos. and my social skills are subpar, as is my eye-hand coordination.
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Old 02.24.2014, 05:14 PM   #17837
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I know everything I know, except for what I forgot. :P
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Old 02.24.2014, 05:19 PM   #17838
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all cognition is based on ignorance
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Old 02.24.2014, 05:19 PM   #17839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_battery
i dont hold faith and conviction in a high regard.

me neither, but in some critical situations it can give you powerful morale. i.e., useful even if untrue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_battery
i also dont believe in the need for belief. its just a story we tell ourselves because we are dedicated to the idea that nihilism can be overcome through denying it, because our beliefs must be stronger than reality because reality is only an expression of our mind or some other shit.

i've been reading your posts for quite a while and i still can't follow your idea of nihilism, etc. i wish you would define it in the most narrow way possible. i suspect that by this you mean that the universe is absurd and indifferent?

as for the need for belief, it's psychological. the mind can only handle so much. i think it's more or less like what aldous huxley said, that the mind needs to discard most perception and focus on what works in order to optimize survival. belief helps people keep their shit together. it has a function. william james justified religion on that basis.

-

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Originally Posted by dead_battery
but yes, that's EXACTLY THE PROBLEM. when they attack things outside of religion. they want to build up the symbolic power of their religion, so they need things for it to crush/undermine. science is the one they chose now because science is their biggest threat and they realize on a sub conscious level that it's going to fucking decimate them. they've been bluffing and playing for time. that's what the post modern era has all been about. failed attempts to put off the inevitable. the vain hope that this failure itself means something.

science is founded on doubt. i love science for that very reason. it's the perfect antidote to dogma--even if people who don't really understand the scientific mindset try to turn scientific knowledge into dogma.

--

ha ha, movie thread!
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Old 02.24.2014, 05:19 PM   #17840
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everyone should go read scott bakkers threepoundbrain blog i keep quoting/plagiarising him in this thread
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