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Old 01.17.2014, 02:14 PM   #17741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Instigator
I cannot watch such things anymore either. As we age I think our ability to handle traumatic imagery becomes less catharsis and more disturbing.
I like the particular way you phrased this. Catharsis is definitely for the young, when you're younger you develop a sense of outrage at the shocking and it must be emptied for the sake of sanity. Anger is a gift, but it can be consuming. As you get older, the experiences of life make empathy more impacting, you truly feel thing like pain, suffering, and death, based on your own perspective of these experiences in your own life. So when you relive these experiences through story-telling of others pains, you don't empty your anger, you just get overwhelmed by your own pains and have a deeper empathy with the pain of others. When I used to see documentaries about war for example, and they show a scene of a bombing, instead of thinking about the logistics, technology, politics, morality, ethics of the situation, all I can see now is the pain of those being bombed, the grief of their loss, and the horror of that reality. It pains me too much to see it now, so I don't watch. Schindler's List was important, glad I watched it when I was young, couldn't touch that shit now. 12 Years a Slave, I feel is even worse! Its not that slavery was necessarily worse than the Holocaust, but it was in the sense that the Holocaust lasted roughly 20 years, slavery in the Americas for over 250 continuous years. That is A LOT of pain.
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Old 01.17.2014, 02:17 PM   #17742
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True. But I'm not sure catharsis is often the point. Usually it's just, "Here's something awful to feel awful about."

It's complicated: I have contempt for anyone who willfully buries their head in the sand. On the other hand, I get it: people have done and continue to do unspeakable things to each other. I get it, I get it, I get it.
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Old 01.17.2014, 02:35 PM   #17743
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ignoring history is one thing. Not watching a fictionalized Hollywood entertainment is another.
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Old 01.17.2014, 02:38 PM   #17744
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Ah, there we go. Thanks.
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Old 01.17.2014, 02:48 PM   #17745
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This is why I could not enjoy Django Unchained. I found it flippant.

I did enjoy Inglorious Basterds a lot though, and I think it is because the entire film is like a Marvel "What if?" story, as opposed to Django which was supposed to occur in our actual past.
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Old 01.17.2014, 02:52 PM   #17746
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Originally Posted by Rob Instigator
This is why I could not enjoy Django Unchained. I found it flippant.

I agree completely, I thought Tarantino was pushing his whole "I'm a white guy who is hip with the brothaz" schtick. As a white guy who is more welcome in black communities than white, I can relate BUT I think he just went to far. That movie wasn't just flippant, it was in absolute SHIT taste.

Quote:
I did enjoy Inglorious Basterds a lot though, and I think it is because the entire film is like a Marvel "What if?" story, as opposed to Django which was supposed to occur in our actual past.

I think that Inglorious did a bit better job of making it serious, particularly the first half with Christopher Waltz's scenes. All the Nazi killing was as in poor taste as was Django BUT, lets be honest, who the fuck ever had a problem with disrespecting the humanity of fucking Nazi fucks? Its why Nazis were the bad guys in all the 1980s/90s violent videogames like Wolfenstein and Soldier of Fortune, NOBODY on earth has a problem with the graphic recreation of killing numerous Nazis. Shit, probably even Jesus Christ Himself and the Blessed Virgin give a soul dap about each virtual killing and joy it induces in us at seeing it.





 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Instigator
ignoring history is one thing. Not watching a fictionalized Hollywood entertainment is another.

That is to contrite an analysis. 12 Years A Slave is obviously not necessarily trying to be a weekend block buster, it isn't the feel good buddy cop movie or an action packed thrillfest. It is a shockingly real portrayal of challenging history, and in particular, challenging history which the overwhelming majority of humans only THINK they know all about, but from my experience 99% of even sympathetic people have quite literally NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT REALLY HAPPENED (black, white, brown alike). This movie is crucial for that. I think A LOT of people need to be confronted with this reality they weren't as intimately familiar with. ALL the black folks I've talked with about this flick are extremely thankful and appreciative about its release, its being considered the most important black made movie about slavery since Roots. Roots is crucial. There is a reason we all watched it back in middle or high school history class because its easy to minimize or trivialize or compartmentalize bad history when reading about facts, dates, names, and figures. When you witness a dramatic narrative recreating that history, it becomes realer in a way that reading or imagining simply can't. So I think everybody who doesn't haunt the "Black reading list" section (or as my sister calls my bookshelf "Blackrypha") of their book store should definitely watch this flick. Me? I think its safe to say I'm a bit familiarized with the actual history of slavery, having a degree in African studies and spent the entirety of my college career researching and writing about these histories through primary source material. For me, I can't watch this movie not because of it itself, but because of all the tangential memories that it will induce. In my mind, a collage of ALL the material I've read, seen, and experienced will come to light. It won't be cathartic, but overwhelming.
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Old 01.17.2014, 03:11 PM   #17747
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it is still a fictionalized piece of drama entertainment.

Schindler's List was too, and the shit that went down in WWII was a billion times worse than any 3 hour movie can begin to show.

I think it is more important to learn from those things to watch out that they do not happen again, or if they are happening now, to spot it and STOP IT.
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Old 01.17.2014, 03:23 PM   #17748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Instigator
it is still a fictionalized piece of drama entertainment.

True, but that is like saying every book, piece of art, or music is "just a piece of fictionalized entertainment." Artists create art for many reasons simultaneously. This film was clearly written, produced, and made to be informative, emotive, and revelatory rather then merely entertaining. After all, its not really all that entertaining is it?

Quote:

Schindler's List was too, and the shit that went down in WWII was a billion times worse than any 3 hour movie can begin to show.

Spielburg made that as a kind of personal experience to connect with his own Jewish history and share it. I also think it was a beautiful film which demonstrated how even in the most inhuman of circumstances, we see the true Light of the goodness in human beings. It was a crucial movie that humanized the Holocaust experience in a way a documentary couldn't. People can again compartmentalize documentary films and personal accounts, but the medium of the dramatic narrative is powerfully compelling. Human beings are story tellers, and we learn through stories. I can't tell you how many black people felt like they learned something deep about their own history through Roots. Its one thing to talk about slavery, its another to recreate the experience through storytelling. People have to as it were "jump into character" even if they don't want too.. That is why Schindler's List is crucial, and why 12 Years A Slave needed to be made. That being said, a lot of people truly at the core of their being NEED to watch these movies. I am not one of them though I have, and with 12 Years a Slave more than likely will.

Quote:

I think it is more important to learn from those things to watch out that they do not happen again, or if they are happening now, to spot it and STOP IT.

I think that is too simplistic. We can't necessarily just "stop" the bad aspects of the human experience through a conscious awareness. Rather, I think whether watching these movies or just studying the history, that folks need to empathize with this history in the experiential sense. They need to engage with it deeply, to experience it, not just know it. Knowledge is worthless if it doesn't cause growth and maturation. Sometimes people just need to feel what has happened or is happening without necessarily any intent to change their actions. The heart is where real life exists, not just the outside world. So even if folks can't change the world, the least and indeed most they can do is change their own heart.
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Old 01.17.2014, 03:23 PM   #17749
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I've watched 12 Years a Slave last night.

What Nefeli, Stu and T&B said. Cried a lot while watching the movie.
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Old 01.17.2014, 03:28 PM   #17750
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I've watched 12 Years a Slave last night.

What Nefeli, Stu and T&B said. Cried a lot while watching the movie.

Excellent it proves you're truly human unlike other imposters out there, glad to know

 

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Its ok, it doesn't affect you, you're not really human."
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Old 01.17.2014, 05:52 PM   #17751
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I have not seen 12 Years a Slave yet. I'm enjoying reading the discussion on here that the mention of the film has inspired, and the comparisons being made between this film and "Schindler's List". I also find the discussion of a film's topic affects us any differently if the film is a fictionalized narrative, or a documentary. Which reminded me that there is documentary on The Holocaust called "Memory of the Camps" in which the filmmaker received advisement from none other than Alfred Hitchcock. Hitchcock himself didn't produce or do any technical work on the film but as is the way this film has been described as "Hitchcock's Holocaust Documentary", which I think is misleading.

http://www.openculture.com/2014/01/m...hitchcock.html

There is the link on the story if anyone is interested.
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Old 01.17.2014, 06:23 PM   #17752
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watch 2 summer blockbusters this week

MAN OF STEEL - a piece of shit. it was like watching mortal kombat. ridiculous cgi fights. all-around stupid shit. good cast but hammy direction. bloated. didn't like it.

THE WOLVERINE - what a difference from that superman lamo. this one was fun. yes, a little predictable, etc, it's a fucking superhero movie for fucks sakes, but it was done right. really liked it. bonus: the main girl non-mutant girl was really pretty (google tao okamoto and see).
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Old 01.17.2014, 08:29 PM   #17753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeDistortion
there is documentary on The Holocaust called "Memory of the Camps" in which the filmmaker received advisement from none other than Alfred Hitchcock. Hitchcock himself didn't produce or do any technical work on the film but as is the way this film has been described as "Hitchcock's Holocaust Documentary", which I think is misleading.

So long as they didn't hype any shower scenes
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Old 01.17.2014, 08:44 PM   #17754
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So long as they didn't hype any shower scenes

Right - off to bed with you with no dinner!

 
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Old 01.18.2014, 08:22 AM   #17755
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I remember when Schindler's List came out, Time Magazine (I think) did a poll. I forget the exact numbers, but they were scary. A sliver though the Holocaust didn't happen at all, a larger group thought the number was exaggerated, and about a fourth simply didn't know about the Holocaust at all.

20 years later, I'm guessing the numbers would be different, and that's in large part thanks to Schindler's List.

However:

I strongly feel there have been too many "Holocaust" films in the intervening years, and this has "desensitized" many people's response to the event. Academics are calling this "Holocaust Fatigue."

Which is why the otherwise decent demonrail666 thought it was okay to make a sick, neg-rep worthy pun at the expense of victims.

I wonder what would happen if for the next decade or so there were a bunch of "slavery" films released every year? Soon enough, I bet it'd become a punchline.
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Old 01.18.2014, 10:05 AM   #17756
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Originally Posted by evollove
I remember when Schindler's List came out, Time Magazine (I think) did a poll. I forget the exact numbers, but they were scary. A sliver though the Holocaust didn't happen at all, a larger group thought the number was exaggerated, and about a fourth simply didn't know about the Holocaust at all.

20 years later, I'm guessing the numbers would be different, and that's in large part thanks to Schindler's List.

However:

I strongly feel there have been too many "Holocaust" films in the intervening years, and this has "desensitized" many people's response to the event. Academics are calling this "Holocaust Fatigue."

Which is why the otherwise decent demonrail666 thought it was okay to make a sick, neg-rep worthy pun at the expense of victims.

I wonder what would happen if for the next decade or so there were a bunch of "slavery" films released every year? Soon enough, I bet it'd become a punchline.


 


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Old 01.18.2014, 10:07 AM   #17757
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i don't think the holocaust is funny at all but demonio's joke made me laugh though-- because it was about hitchcock.

 
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Old 01.18.2014, 03:13 PM   #17758
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MAN OF STEEL - a piece of shit. it was like watching mortal kombat.

 

DON'T YOU EVER FUCKING DISS MORTAL KOMBAT LIKE THAT AGAIN!

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Old 01.18.2014, 03:42 PM   #17759
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10/10

Loved it.
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Old 01.18.2014, 07:35 PM   #17760
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