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Old 01.11.2014, 07:22 PM   #17681
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Old 01.12.2014, 06:56 PM   #17682
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Old 01.13.2014, 03:56 PM   #17683
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Originally Posted by Nefeli
12 years a slave.

such movies make my heart ache.

this
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Old 01.13.2014, 04:10 PM   #17684
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Old 01.13.2014, 05:02 PM   #17685
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this

ditto. grueling.
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Old 01.13.2014, 05:23 PM   #17686
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i watched volume one of "american avant-garde film" (or something like that) and it was the most boring thing ever.

i realized that 99% of the time "avant-garde film" means: white people making a bunch of random shapes on the screen by a variety of methods to the tune of some sort of chaotic sountrack (with the inclusion of unfamiliar "ethnic" tracks).

now i'm not opposed to experimentation but come on! please make something that i can care about without the use of psychedelic "wow, look at those colors, maaaan" drugs. experimentation doesn't have to mean "random shapes moving to the sound of music."

maybe i'm being unduly harsh, but it was all unwatchable, and the modern music video has improved so much over those early pioneers as to render them irrelevant. it's not like watching fritz lang or buster keaton and saying "wow, this still works a century later."

i'd rather watch hbo series, sorry.

eta: along these lines, i find "born into brothels" to be much more truly avant-garde. putting cameras in the hands of kids = innovation.
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Old 01.13.2014, 06:34 PM   #17687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
i watched volume one of "american avant-garde film" (or something like that) and it was the most boring thing ever.

i realized that 99% of the time "avant-garde film" means: white people making a bunch of random shapes on the screen by a variety of methods to the tune of some sort of chaotic sountrack (with the inclusion of unfamiliar "ethnic" tracks).

now i'm not opposed to experimentation but come on! please make something that i can care about without the use of psychedelic "wow, look at those colors, maaaan" drugs. experimentation doesn't have to mean "random shapes moving to the sound of music."

maybe i'm being unduly harsh, but it was all unwatchable, and the modern music video has improved so much over those early pioneers as to render them irrelevant. it's not like watching fritz lang or buster keaton and saying "wow, this still works a century later."

i'd rather watch hbo series, sorry.

eta: along these lines, i find "born into brothels" to be much more truly avant-garde. putting cameras in the hands of kids = innovation.

What were some of the films?
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Old 01.13.2014, 06:57 PM   #17688
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Originally Posted by demonrail666
What were some of the films?

shit, i just sent it back. all i remember was that it was in part paid for some andy warhol foundation. lemme pull up some info…



http://www.filmpreservation.org/dvds...ant-garde-film

i got disc 1:

This disc includes the following short films: "Film No. 3: Interwoven," "Notes on the Circus," "Here I Am," "Fake Fruit Factory," "Odds & Ends," "Eyewash," "Peyote Queen," "7362," "Aleph," "Note to Pati," "By Night with Torch and Spear," "The Riddle of Lumen" and "The End."

they were all very boring to me. no maya deren or kuchar brothers or kenneth anger. lots of home films shown in negative, lots of dancing colors and shit like that. shaky cameras, etc. even promising titles like "peyote queen" were disappoints. the only one with a narrative was "the end" but it was like a bad short story written by a continental philosophy student who liked to ramble too much. oh, there was one documentary of sorts that showed special ed children playing with blocks and stuff. just looking. but i've seen kindergartens and nursing homes and special ed people, and it's not like this was "7 up" or anything. so it was all boring. fuck, i sound mean. i don't mean to be mean. but i had much higher expectations. maybe i was in the wrong frame of mind.
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Old 01.13.2014, 07:10 PM   #17689
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oh i found the link to the names. not all of them were in that disc:

Bruce Baillie, Here I Am (1962)
Wallace Berman, Aleph (1956–66?)
Stan Brakhage, The Riddle of Lumen (1972)
Robert Breer, Eyewash (1959)
Shirley Clarke, Bridges-Go-Round (1958)
Joseph Cornell, By Night with Torch and Spear (1940s?)
Storm De Hirsch, Peyote Queen (1965)
Hollis Frampton, (nostalgia) (1971)
Larry Gottheim, Fog Line (1970)
Ken Jacobs, Little Stabs at Happiness (1959–63)
Lawrence Jordan, Hamfat Asar (1965)
George Kuchar, I, An Actress (1977)
Owen Land, New Improved Institutional Quality: In the Environment of Liquids and Nasals a Parasitic Vowel Sometimes Develops (1976)
Standish Lawder, Necrology (1969–70)
Saul Levine, Note to Pati (1969)
Christopher Maclaine, The End (1953)
Jonas Mekas, Notes on the Circus (1966)
Marie Menken, Go! Go! Go! (1962-64)
Robert Nelson & William T. Wiley, The Off-Handed Jape...& How to Pull It Off (1967)
Pat O'Neill, 7362 (1967)
Ron Rice, Chumlum (1964)
Paul Sharits, Bad Burns (1982)
Jane Conger Belson Shimane, Odds & Ends (1959)
Harry Smith, Film No. 3: Interwoven (1947–49)
Chick Strand, Fake Fruit Factory (1986)
Andy Warhol, Mario Banana (No. 1) (1964)

---

now i remember that fruit factory which is another "documentary" was there too. i mean is just a camera on some people making fake fruits with some sort of clay. maybe he thought because they were mexican they were instantly interesting. i mean it was just workers doing their work. fucking edison did that in 1895 and he didn't exoticize brown people.

uncle lobster's notes on the circus was another thing: a circus. in fast forward. with a soundtrack.

uncle lobster is no jack smith.

also, no su friedrich? fuckem.

oh, btw, i realize there was a film by joseph cornell there and yes there was one thing that looked pretty good (probably his) but at that point i was tired of dancing colors.

there was also some footage of upside down factory workers with a track by john zorn and while i enjoyed the zorn music i went to wash dishes.
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Old 01.13.2014, 07:22 PM   #17690
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Old 01.13.2014, 08:15 PM   #17691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
oh i found the link to the names. not all of them were in that disc:

Bruce Baillie, Here I Am (1962)
Wallace Berman, Aleph (195666?)
Stan Brakhage, The Riddle of Lumen (1972)
Robert Breer, Eyewash (1959)
Shirley Clarke, Bridges-Go-Round (1958)
Joseph Cornell, By Night with Torch and Spear (1940s?)
Storm De Hirsch, Peyote Queen (1965)
Hollis Frampton, (nostalgia) (1971)
Larry Gottheim, Fog Line (1970)
Ken Jacobs, Little Stabs at Happiness (195963)
Lawrence Jordan, Hamfat Asar (1965)
George Kuchar, I, An Actress (1977)
Owen Land, New Improved Institutional Quality: In the Environment of Liquids and Nasals a Parasitic Vowel Sometimes Develops (1976)
Standish Lawder, Necrology (196970)
Saul Levine, Note to Pati (1969)
Christopher Maclaine, The End (1953)
Jonas Mekas, Notes on the Circus (1966)
Marie Menken, Go! Go! Go! (1962-64)
Robert Nelson & William T. Wiley, The Off-Handed Jape...& How to Pull It Off (1967)
Pat O'Neill, 7362 (1967)
Ron Rice, Chumlum (1964)
Paul Sharits, Bad Burns (1982)
Jane Conger Belson Shimane, Odds & Ends (1959)
Harry Smith, Film No. 3: Interwoven (194749)
Chick Strand, Fake Fruit Factory (1986)
Andy Warhol, Mario Banana (No. 1) (1964)

---

now i remember that fruit factory which is another "documentary" was there too. i mean is just a camera on some people making fake fruits with some sort of clay. maybe he thought because they were mexican they were instantly interesting. i mean it was just workers doing their work. fucking edison did that in 1895 and he didn't exoticize brown people.

uncle lobster's notes on the circus was another thing: a circus. in fast forward. with a soundtrack.

uncle lobster is no jack smith.

also, no su friedrich? fuckem.

oh, btw, i realize there was a film by joseph cornell there and yes there was one thing that looked pretty good (probably his) but at that point i was tired of dancing colors.

there was also some footage of upside down factory workers with a track by john zorn and while i enjoyed the zorn music i went to wash dishes.

Wow! There's some of my fave films ever on that list. Little Stabs at Happiness, Aleph, Chumlum!!!!! I don't know what to say. You like Anger and Jack Smith but you didn't like Chumlum???? That just doesn't compute.
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Old 01.13.2014, 09:10 PM   #17692
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Originally Posted by MellySingsDoom
 

I watched that again recently. I liked it as ever but it is a real mess of a film. Totally all over the place.
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Old 01.13.2014, 09:18 PM   #17693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
I watched that again recently. I liked it as ever but it is a real mess of a film. Totally all over the place.

Know what you mean - Argento's script isn't exactly a linear effort here, is it? Still, it's a pretty good giallo effort by him nonetheless. I thought Tony Musante's encounter with the gruff and grumpy artist was pretty entertaining. And as for Suzy Kendall....
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Old 01.13.2014, 09:25 PM   #17694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
Wow! There's some of my fave films ever on that list. Little Stabs at Happiness, Aleph, Chumlum!!!!! I don't know what to say. You like Anger and Jack Smith but you didn't like Chumlum???? That just doesn't compute.

of the 3 movies you mention only aleph was on this disc.

which one was that? shapes jumping?

ha ha ha-- i'm a fucking philistine, that's what. i'd rather watch the khaleesi in her furry bikini. but no, seriously. im sick and tired of "avant-garde = jumping colors with music." and that includes brakhage too. ha! ha ha ha!
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Old 01.14.2014, 09:34 AM   #17695
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text of light and all brakhage "films" suck mad shit. fucking boring masturbatory stupidity. the same amount of "art" can be enjoyed by watching water run down a drain in your bathroom sink.
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Old 01.14.2014, 01:17 PM   #17696
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Chuck Norris must have been watching this crap growing up and said too himself, "The one-on-seven fight scene is the template for the rest of the movies and TV shows in my future career." It was like combining Breaker Breaker with Paint Your Wagon.. Equally bad as both, yet somehow combined!
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Old 01.14.2014, 01:29 PM   #17697
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Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
 


Chuck Norris must have been watching this crap growing up and said too himself, "The one-on-seven fight scene is the template for the rest of the movies and TV shows in my future career." It was like combining Breaker Breaker with Paint Your Wagon.. Equally bad as both, yet somehow combined!

Jesus Christ! It's the perfect western!!!! First symbols hates Chumlum, now you're dissing Shane. The world's gone fucking mad!
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Old 01.14.2014, 01:34 PM   #17698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
Jesus Christ! It's the perfect western!!!! First symbols hates Chumlum, now you're dissing Shane. The world's gone fucking mad!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to demonrail666 again.

How is it that you enjoy so much pulp American westerns?? They suck! and I GREW UP playing cowboy with six-shooters but the ones you like are boring as fuck. But if you want to call me out, we can have a stand-off, be back here at noon


 
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Old 01.14.2014, 01:45 PM   #17699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Instigator
text of light and all brakhage "films" suck mad shit. fucking boring masturbatory stupidity. the same amount of "art" can be enjoyed by watching water run down a drain in your bathroom sink.

I can see why you say that but I've never understood why people who can listen to the most extreme music have such a problem with more overtly-experimental areas of film. Couldn't pretty much everything you say about Brakhage, etc, be just as easily levelled at a lot of the more experimental types of music that get so much support here?
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Old 01.14.2014, 01:47 PM   #17700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
I can see why you say that but I've never understood why people who can listen to the most extreme music have such a problem with more overtly-experimental areas of film. Couldn't pretty much everything you say about Brakhage, etc, be just as easily levelled at a lot of the more experimental types of music that get so much support here?

True, but I think most people go into a film with certain structural expectations, which experimental films tend not to fulfill. With music, people tend to be more fluid, especially considering that film attacks more of the senses simultaneously. Music you just hear, experimental film can quite literally leave you disoriented and confused.
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