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Old 01.15.2014, 11:51 AM   #17661
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Originally Posted by evollove
WOLF OF WALL STREET-- Didn't really like it, but found myself re-watching some good scenes. One prolonged scene in particular is classic. Weird, but I predict Jonah Hill will win an Oscar some time in the next few years.

For what, being the only true successor of Chris Farley as "heavy set guy who smiles too much and so we can't really take him too seriously?" I like the guy, a lot actually, but not exactly Oscar caliber here..


 
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Old 01.15.2014, 01:43 PM   #17662
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no, fool, that is wrong. artists have the right to make whatever they want. good art, bad art, it's their business and not yours. what really bugs me is just that it would still be called avant-garde or experimental when it's been a tried and true formula for decades. decades! that's what really bugs me. it's only avant-garde when it breaks new boundaries. okay, so now it's video art or film art or abstract film or whatever. okay. names are important.

i kinda already said that, didn't i? in a way, yes, but after last night's drinking my head is clearer, and i feel less categorical in my stupid judgments.

alright. and now to recent movies.

&85^0 was a good dolphin.
 
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Old 01.15.2014, 07:56 PM   #17663
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Old 01.16.2014, 02:01 AM   #17664
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Wolf of Wall street was p chill
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Old 01.17.2014, 12:13 PM   #17665
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Old 01.17.2014, 12:42 PM   #17666
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Originally Posted by chocolate_ladyland
Wolf of Wall street was p chill

I don't know what this means.

This weekend:

HER
DALLAS BUYERS CLUB
PHILOMENA

Not AMERICAN HUSTLE. I fucking hated SILVER LININGS PLAYBOOK so much, I don't think I can watch this one.

I want to watch 12 YEARS A SLAVE. But then, I don't. Y'know?
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Old 01.17.2014, 12:53 PM   #17667
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Originally Posted by evollove

I want to watch 12 YEARS A SLAVE. But then, I don't. Y'know?

I also haven't seen it, I definitely don't want to go to a theater to hear a mix of some people being overly apologetic, some people being just straight hating, several racist motherfuckers to run their mouths saying something totally stupid, and then the obvious knuckleheads that let their emotions get the best of them. I will make it a Netflix thing.. Though I've gotten to a point where I just can't watch depressing shit anymore. Like, I know I shouldn't be avoiding reality, but, I also don't want to spend 2 or 3 hours reliving the horrors of history. I can barely even watch PBS documentaries anymore, especially Frontline.
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Old 01.17.2014, 01:03 PM   #17668
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Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
Like, I know I shouldn't be avoiding reality, but, I also don't want to spend 2 or 3 hours reliving the horrors of history.

Yeah, this is my problem.

And I feel very guilty because of it.

I don't want to go through a painful emotional experience, especially since I already understand that slavery wasn't very nice. What am I going to think at the end of the movie? "Aha, I was right. Slavery was awful."

But since my life is extraordinarily privileged (relatively speaking), I'm sure I can sit through a fucking movie. I should be able to watch a horror since I don't live one.

Ah, the guilt.
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Old 01.17.2014, 02:07 PM   #17669
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I cannot watch such things anymore either. As we age I think our ability to handle traumatic imagery becomes less catharsis and more disturbing.
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Old 01.17.2014, 02:14 PM   #17670
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I cannot watch such things anymore either. As we age I think our ability to handle traumatic imagery becomes less catharsis and more disturbing.
I like the particular way you phrased this. Catharsis is definitely for the young, when you're younger you develop a sense of outrage at the shocking and it must be emptied for the sake of sanity. Anger is a gift, but it can be consuming. As you get older, the experiences of life make empathy more impacting, you truly feel thing like pain, suffering, and death, based on your own perspective of these experiences in your own life. So when you relive these experiences through story-telling of others pains, you don't empty your anger, you just get overwhelmed by your own pains and have a deeper empathy with the pain of others. When I used to see documentaries about war for example, and they show a scene of a bombing, instead of thinking about the logistics, technology, politics, morality, ethics of the situation, all I can see now is the pain of those being bombed, the grief of their loss, and the horror of that reality. It pains me too much to see it now, so I don't watch. Schindler's List was important, glad I watched it when I was young, couldn't touch that shit now. 12 Years a Slave, I feel is even worse! Its not that slavery was necessarily worse than the Holocaust, but it was in the sense that the Holocaust lasted roughly 20 years, slavery in the Americas for over 250 continuous years. That is A LOT of pain.
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Old 01.17.2014, 02:17 PM   #17671
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True. But I'm not sure catharsis is often the point. Usually it's just, "Here's something awful to feel awful about."

It's complicated: I have contempt for anyone who willfully buries their head in the sand. On the other hand, I get it: people have done and continue to do unspeakable things to each other. I get it, I get it, I get it.
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Old 01.17.2014, 02:35 PM   #17672
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ignoring history is one thing. Not watching a fictionalized Hollywood entertainment is another.
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Old 01.17.2014, 02:38 PM   #17673
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Ah, there we go. Thanks.
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Old 01.17.2014, 02:48 PM   #17674
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This is why I could not enjoy Django Unchained. I found it flippant.

I did enjoy Inglorious Basterds a lot though, and I think it is because the entire film is like a Marvel "What if?" story, as opposed to Django which was supposed to occur in our actual past.
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Old 01.17.2014, 02:52 PM   #17675
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This is why I could not enjoy Django Unchained. I found it flippant.

I agree completely, I thought Tarantino was pushing his whole "I'm a white guy who is hip with the brothaz" schtick. As a white guy who is more welcome in black communities than white, I can relate BUT I think he just went to far. That movie wasn't just flippant, it was in absolute SHIT taste.

Quote:
I did enjoy Inglorious Basterds a lot though, and I think it is because the entire film is like a Marvel "What if?" story, as opposed to Django which was supposed to occur in our actual past.

I think that Inglorious did a bit better job of making it serious, particularly the first half with Christopher Waltz's scenes. All the Nazi killing was as in poor taste as was Django BUT, lets be honest, who the fuck ever had a problem with disrespecting the humanity of fucking Nazi fucks? Its why Nazis were the bad guys in all the 1980s/90s violent videogames like Wolfenstein and Soldier of Fortune, NOBODY on earth has a problem with the graphic recreation of killing numerous Nazis. Shit, probably even Jesus Christ Himself and the Blessed Virgin give a soul dap about each virtual killing and joy it induces in us at seeing it.





 


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ignoring history is one thing. Not watching a fictionalized Hollywood entertainment is another.

That is to contrite an analysis. 12 Years A Slave is obviously not necessarily trying to be a weekend block buster, it isn't the feel good buddy cop movie or an action packed thrillfest. It is a shockingly real portrayal of challenging history, and in particular, challenging history which the overwhelming majority of humans only THINK they know all about, but from my experience 99% of even sympathetic people have quite literally NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT REALLY HAPPENED (black, white, brown alike). This movie is crucial for that. I think A LOT of people need to be confronted with this reality they weren't as intimately familiar with. ALL the black folks I've talked with about this flick are extremely thankful and appreciative about its release, its being considered the most important black made movie about slavery since Roots. Roots is crucial. There is a reason we all watched it back in middle or high school history class because its easy to minimize or trivialize or compartmentalize bad history when reading about facts, dates, names, and figures. When you witness a dramatic narrative recreating that history, it becomes realer in a way that reading or imagining simply can't. So I think everybody who doesn't haunt the "Black reading list" section (or as my sister calls my bookshelf "Blackrypha") of their book store should definitely watch this flick. Me? I think its safe to say I'm a bit familiarized with the actual history of slavery, having a degree in African studies and spent the entirety of my college career researching and writing about these histories through primary source material. For me, I can't watch this movie not because of it itself, but because of all the tangential memories that it will induce. In my mind, a collage of ALL the material I've read, seen, and experienced will come to light. It won't be cathartic, but overwhelming.
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Old 01.17.2014, 03:11 PM   #17676
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it is still a fictionalized piece of drama entertainment.

Schindler's List was too, and the shit that went down in WWII was a billion times worse than any 3 hour movie can begin to show.

I think it is more important to learn from those things to watch out that they do not happen again, or if they are happening now, to spot it and STOP IT.
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Old 01.17.2014, 03:23 PM   #17677
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it is still a fictionalized piece of drama entertainment.

True, but that is like saying every book, piece of art, or music is "just a piece of fictionalized entertainment." Artists create art for many reasons simultaneously. This film was clearly written, produced, and made to be informative, emotive, and revelatory rather then merely entertaining. After all, its not really all that entertaining is it?

Quote:

Schindler's List was too, and the shit that went down in WWII was a billion times worse than any 3 hour movie can begin to show.

Spielburg made that as a kind of personal experience to connect with his own Jewish history and share it. I also think it was a beautiful film which demonstrated how even in the most inhuman of circumstances, we see the true Light of the goodness in human beings. It was a crucial movie that humanized the Holocaust experience in a way a documentary couldn't. People can again compartmentalize documentary films and personal accounts, but the medium of the dramatic narrative is powerfully compelling. Human beings are story tellers, and we learn through stories. I can't tell you how many black people felt like they learned something deep about their own history through Roots. Its one thing to talk about slavery, its another to recreate the experience through storytelling. People have to as it were "jump into character" even if they don't want too.. That is why Schindler's List is crucial, and why 12 Years A Slave needed to be made. That being said, a lot of people truly at the core of their being NEED to watch these movies. I am not one of them though I have, and with 12 Years a Slave more than likely will.

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I think it is more important to learn from those things to watch out that they do not happen again, or if they are happening now, to spot it and STOP IT.

I think that is too simplistic. We can't necessarily just "stop" the bad aspects of the human experience through a conscious awareness. Rather, I think whether watching these movies or just studying the history, that folks need to empathize with this history in the experiential sense. They need to engage with it deeply, to experience it, not just know it. Knowledge is worthless if it doesn't cause growth and maturation. Sometimes people just need to feel what has happened or is happening without necessarily any intent to change their actions. The heart is where real life exists, not just the outside world. So even if folks can't change the world, the least and indeed most they can do is change their own heart.
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Old 01.17.2014, 03:23 PM   #17678
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I've watched 12 Years a Slave last night.

What Nefeli, Stu and T&B said. Cried a lot while watching the movie.
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Old 01.17.2014, 03:28 PM   #17679
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I've watched 12 Years a Slave last night.

What Nefeli, Stu and T&B said. Cried a lot while watching the movie.

Excellent it proves you're truly human unlike other imposters out there, glad to know

 

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Old 01.17.2014, 05:52 PM   #17680
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I have not seen 12 Years a Slave yet. I'm enjoying reading the discussion on here that the mention of the film has inspired, and the comparisons being made between this film and "Schindler's List". I also find the discussion of a film's topic affects us any differently if the film is a fictionalized narrative, or a documentary. Which reminded me that there is documentary on The Holocaust called "Memory of the Camps" in which the filmmaker received advisement from none other than Alfred Hitchcock. Hitchcock himself didn't produce or do any technical work on the film but as is the way this film has been described as "Hitchcock's Holocaust Documentary", which I think is misleading.

http://www.openculture.com/2014/01/m...hitchcock.html

There is the link on the story if anyone is interested.
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