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Old 05.13.2013, 03:33 PM   #17081
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
(i thought) pretty predictable that this would happen somehow.


Eh. Your explanation is generous. I'll give you that.

I was thinking, "The white guy can't end up 'rescuing' the black guy. He'll have to die."

Is that what you mean?

Still, I hated that part.

Great idea: let's have a prequel, dealing solely with Schultz.

ps- I thought the use of the word "cracker" was very over the line, in bad taste, and very offensive.

pss- Sorry. I don't care about spoilers, so I forget that others do.
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Old 05.13.2013, 04:14 PM   #17082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
Eh. Your explanation is generous. I'll give you that.

I was thinking, "spoliler."

Is that what you mean?

SPOILER>>>>>

no, it's not about "race", cuz it would have been easy to set up a situation where django saved the dentist, but rather, it's a common trope, since the ancient gods, that one has to die for others to live (christianity stole that), and since django had to save his wife and it's an american movie neither could die-- hence it had to be the doctor cuz he was next in line. in a french movie on the other hand they would all have died in a heroic but futile attempt before achieving victory/freedom (sisyphus!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
Still, I hated that part.

s'allright! yeah i was like "how come these bitches are so good elsewhere but here they act like turtleheads". in retrospect, it's a bit of an arbitrary plot device, but at the time i got over it quickly. what i mean is, kill schultz to satisfy the need for human sacrifices, but kill him better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
Great idea: let's have a prequel, dealing solely with Schultz.

oh man, that would be awesome

Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
ps- I thought the use of the word "cracker" was very over the line, in bad taste, and very offensive.

didn't catch that, but wouldn't have cared-- i just heard "nigger" said 9,999 times

Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
pss- Sorry. I don't care about spoilers, so I forget that others do.

^^^SPOILER ALERT!!!!!
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Old 05.13.2013, 05:15 PM   #17083
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-Hey, if you're figuring Tarantino was thinking more about ancient tragedy than race, then I again admire your generosity. Actually, based on your analysis, I realized this trope crops up a lot in . . . Westerns. It was an "aha" moment for me.

-Totally joking about "cracker."

-However awesome a Schultz movie would be (and in my head right now, it's the best movie ever made) we'll have to wait. He's currently working on Kill Bill Part 3.
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Old 05.13.2013, 06:06 PM   #17084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
-Hey, if you're figuring Tarantino was thinking more about ancient tragedy than race, then I again admire your generosity.

well he actually throws you a hint-- schultz refers to the story of siegfried and brunhilde and while that's not 100% ancient it's wagner based on norse myth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
Actually, based on your analysis, I realized this trope crops up a lot in . . . Westerns. It was an "aha" moment for me.

borges used to say (before he was dead and before he lost his sight completely) that the western was the last form of the epic

Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
-Totally joking about "cracker."

ha!

Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
-However awesome a Schultz movie would be (and in my head right now, it's the best movie ever made) we'll have to wait. He's currently working on Kill Bill Part 3.

ugh... KILL kill bill... :/
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Old 05.14.2013, 06:14 AM   #17085
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Old 05.14.2013, 09:17 PM   #17086
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Old 05.14.2013, 10:25 PM   #17087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
well he actually throws you a hint-- schultz refers to the story of siegfried and brunhilde and while that's not 100% ancient it's wagner based on norse myth.



borges used to say (before he was dead and before he lost his sight completely) that the western was the last form of the epic



ha!



ugh... KILL kill bill... :/

A kill bill prequel is the only way I can see a third volume not being terrible.

And in my mind, right now, it's as far from terrible as any other thought in my head.
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Old 05.14.2013, 10:38 PM   #17088
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I think tarantino lost his magic when he became an insider about 5-7 years ago. I liked the more underground and gritty without being gratuitous or contrived, its almost like Tarantino flicks have become cliches of themselves :X
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Old 05.14.2013, 10:42 PM   #17089
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Your Highness. Mixed feelings.

 
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Old 05.15.2013, 06:27 AM   #17090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
I think tarantino lost his magic when he became an insider about 5-7 years ago. I liked the more underground and gritty without being gratuitous or contrived, its almost like Tarantino flicks have become cliches of themselves :X


An insider? 5-7 years ago being roughly the era of "Grindhouse?"

I think he was one his way to industry insiderdom when he swept Cannes. And I think he has been a massive influence on screenplay writers since Reservoir Dogs. But I guess the Kill Bill era is probably what you're referring to; when everybody in the country was shooting was over the film, from Tweens to critics with an appreciation for the absurd.

Personally, I think Inglorious Basterds was his real Hollywood breakthrough. I'm not sure why, as it's his least accessible film by far, but that was his first film to attain blockbuster status AND unanimous critical acclaim. And I think somethong of the "old" Tarantino did shine trough in that film. It had the complexity of Pulp Fiction, and a screenplay that, in my kinda humble opinion, outshines even Reservoir Dogs.

Now I believe he's managed to carve out a niche in the mainstream, and I think Django Unchained is proof of that. I've only seen it once, but to me it was an epic that maintained a good deal of the grit and grime of pulp fiction. The flashback scenes (which should have been given more length and screen time) were great examples of this.

Now that he's had his fun with war-epics (or pre-war in Django's case), I'd like to see him re-explore heist films and Scorscesian crime dramas. And yes, a revisitation to the world of Kill Bill would have a lot if potential. As long as it bore no similarities to the style of the first two films at all. He should go for a character piece, and give insight into the more human (read: less superhuman) dimensions of the individual characters.

Shit I've gotta go to work.
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Old 05.15.2013, 08:34 AM   #17091
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Here is my thing with Django, and Tarantino

Inglorious Basterds worked BECAUSE they sidestepped completely the horrors of Buchenwald, and Auschwitz and all the other death camps. They were mentioned in passing, but not shown, because that reality, that utter cold truth of how evil humans can be to humans, would have made everything in Inglorious basterds glare in an ugly way as the farce it was (and a good farce, but a farce nonetheless, a superflous tiffle compared to the real dramas and horrors of WWII)

because Tarantino was clever enough to focus on just the wish-fulfilment aspect of his story, IB worked and I love it.

Django however, showed, or tried to show, the various brutalities of the african slavery situation. By spending so much time giving the audience lengthy scenes of torture and violence and extreme inhumanity, (the "mandingo" scene particularly was terrible and pointless, and actually, if you do your research, false, as the concept of slaves fighting to the death for the master's pleasure is really a made-up situation. The plantation records do not show this happening. A strong male slave was an extremely valuable possession, horrible as it may be to think about.)

Because they decided to show this horror, it created a jarring disconnect for me a a viewer. I could no longer care what happened in the film. It felt like just a white guy's cartoon version of what a blaxploitation movie was back in the day, with none of the personal connection that made us cheer for the Nazi killers in IB.

I guess I found the attempted combination of humor at the cartoony stupid KKK ("I can't see out of this mask!"), and the showing of visceral, brutal violence in a ham-fisted attempt to "respect" the slave's experience to be phony.
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Old 05.15.2013, 08:56 AM   #17092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Severian
Personally, I think Inglorious Basterds was his real Hollywood breakthrough. I'm not sure why, as it's his least accessible film by far, but that was his first film to attain blockbuster status AND unanimous critical acclaim.

Didn't that happen with Pulp Fiction? The critics and public loved it and he could pretty much do what he wanted in Hollywood after that. He's been allowed to make movies like IG because of the success of Pulp Fiction. I'm not sure he'd have been given the same freedom had he made (or tried to make) IG first.

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Old 05.15.2013, 10:09 AM   #17093
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oh that nick cave movie i saw it some years ago it was pretty good. the idea of setting up an orderly house in the middle of such desolation made for beautiful images.

re: tarantulino. i *hated* kill bill. hated hated hated. both 1 and 2. ugh! utter wankery crap. so i stopped watching him for a while. thanks to (d)jango i'm going to check out the previous stuff i missed, namely grindhouse and inglorious basterds (though i'm gonna watch the original inglorious bastards first).

@cheeto - "mandingo fighting" is really another piece of tarantula's movie pastiche. he was a video store clerk, so his movies are made up of other movies. see here the source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandingo_(film)

oh, busy morning, i gotta fuck off, meh!
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Old 05.15.2013, 10:30 AM   #17094
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I worked in a movie theater when PULP FICTION came out. It was entertaining to watch the crowd exit the theater. Most were smiling widely, as if they'd just had a massive orgasm. Men, women, black, white, young, old. But at nearly every screening, there were also walk outs. One woman--I swear--wanted her money back because John Travolta died in the middle, but came back at the end.

No other movie generated that sort of response, because no other movie was quite like it. Because I could watch it for free, I must have seen it on the big screen a dozen or so times until it was burned into my memory. Every other movie suddenly seemed a little old-fashioned and square. It was, no exaggeration, a revolution.

Everything he's made since then has been a disappointment, but of course it would be.
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Old 05.15.2013, 10:37 AM   #17095
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Your Highness was HORRIBLE!
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Old 05.15.2013, 11:07 AM   #17096
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Your Highness has a 26% on Rotten Tomatoes.
Movie 43 has a 4%.

So, Your Highness is over six times as good. Still, I want to see what a 4% movie looks like.
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Old 05.15.2013, 12:26 PM   #17097
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Originally Posted by demonrail666
Didn't that happen with Pulp Fiction? The critics and public loved it and he could pretty much do what he wanted in Hollywood after that. He's been allowed to make movies like IG because of the success of Pulp Fiction. I'm not sure he'd have been given the same freedom had he made (or tried to make) IG first.

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Sort of. Pulp Fiction was like Tarantino's "Creep" but not quite his OK Computer. People noticed, people enjoyed it, his name was big, but it didn't translate into mainstream popularity. Pulp Fiction, for all its popularity, is truly a cult film. It was also quite literally the only movie I owned for several years, on a beat up VHS copy, and I adored it!

I agree, Inglorious Bastards was his "it-girl" moment.The quaint, indy, DIY feel of his 1990s work is totally lost on every post-Kill Bill flick. Kill Bill is the transition. Parts of it retain that grit, the rest are boringly pretending to be like any other hollywood "system" movie. Then comes Grindhouse and Inglorious Bastards which are full-fledged cliches of earlier Tarantino flicks. There can never be another Pulp Fiction or Jackie Brown or even Four Rooms or Dust Till Dawn.. I think that if he doesn't go in a radical different direction, he will begin to sound like those crassly commercial veteran band revivals which only point out just how great those bands were 40 years ago, and just how unique that particular time was, and how it can't be recreated with out being contrived like a Bush album.
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Old 05.15.2013, 12:55 PM   #17098
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Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
Sort of. Pulp Fiction was like Tarantino's "Creep" but not quite his OK Computer. People noticed, people enjoyed it, his name was big, but it didn't translate into mainstream popularity. Pulp Fiction, for all its popularity, is truly a cult film. It was also quite literally the only movie I owned for several years, on a beat up VHS copy, and I adored it!

I agree, Inglorious Bastards was his "it-girl" moment.The quaint, indy, DIY feel of his 1990s work is totally lost on every post-Kill Bill flick. Kill Bill is the transition. Parts of it retain that grit, the rest are boringly pretending to be like any other hollywood "system" movie. Then comes Grindhouse and Inglorious Bastards which are full-fledged cliches of earlier Tarantino flicks. There can never be another Pulp Fiction or Jackie Brown or even Four Rooms or Dust Till Dawn.. I think that if he doesn't go in a radical different direction, he will begin to sound like those crassly commercial veteran band revivals which only point out just how great those bands were 40 years ago, and just how unique that particular time was, and how it can't be recreated with out being contrived like a Bush album.

I just checked the box office profits for both and I'm amazed that IG took nearly three times what Pulp Fiction made. So I take it all back. Without seeing the figures I'd always assumed IG was a bit of a flop. Shows how much I know.
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Old 05.15.2013, 06:47 PM   #17099
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No other movie generated that sort of response, because no other movie was quite like it. [...] Every other movie suddenly seemed a little old-fashioned and square. It was, no exaggeration, a revolution.

that is exactly right.

it was the huge megaexplosion of the "big indie". it was definitely the zenith of the indie film movement and a kind of watershed. bruce willis was in it. travolta made a comeback. samuel l. jackson became huge. the weinsteins made a fuckton. sundance was never the same after that. before pulp fiction, indies had proven they could be commercially successful (sex lies and videotape), but after that, the commerce took over and stuff started going to shit-- suddenly *every* fucking big studio had an indie division.

if we're going to compare with albums, reservoir dogs was bleach, pulp fiction was nevermind, and the shit that came after was... fucking nickelback.

inglorious basterds came after 15 years of consistent gentrification of indie film. it's not even an indie movie in any way-- it's a major fucking hollywood blockbuster-- in fact, kill bill was that already, they even made a benihana commercial based on it for fucks sakes. it was just like a summer blockbuster. no surprise there.

true that it's hard for tarantino to revolutionize film twice (few artists do that-- maybe picasso or matisse did the equivalent in their lifetimes) but while kill bill made me wanna vomit, (d)jango made me happy i watched.
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Old 05.15.2013, 07:14 PM   #17100
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SuchFriendsAreDangerous kicks all y'all's assesSuchFriendsAreDangerous kicks all y'all's assesSuchFriendsAreDangerous kicks all y'all's assesSuchFriendsAreDangerous kicks all y'all's assesSuchFriendsAreDangerous kicks all y'all's assesSuchFriendsAreDangerous kicks all y'all's assesSuchFriendsAreDangerous kicks all y'all's assesSuchFriendsAreDangerous kicks all y'all's assesSuchFriendsAreDangerous kicks all y'all's assesSuchFriendsAreDangerous kicks all y'all's assesSuchFriendsAreDangerous kicks all y'all's asses
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to !@#$%! again.

Haha, straight to Nickelback then, no Bush transition phase?

agreed completely !@#$%!, while I think that for Tarantino specifically Pulp Fiction is again his "Creep" and not yet exactly his OK Computer, I would definitely say that for indie film exposure in general and shifting the overall culture of big movies, Pulp Fiction is like the Nirvana of flicks. It elevated the entire indie film genre.

While I don't think Tarantino himself can do it twice, there are other greats who have pulled it off. James Cameron has done it twice. Stanley Kubrick has done it maybe a few more times than that. Scorcesse is always mixing things up on a monumental stage. Spielberg did it both in the 80s and then post-Shindlers' List. Coen brothers have tried, but I think like Tarantino they only really pulled off one revolution and both their mutual careers have just been an extension of that initial burst. Tim Burton definitely did it twice, first with is artsy/indie flicks and then with is stop-animation revolution. Love me some Tim Burton. We can sort of count John Singleton, who used to make really original and gritty films about authentic South Central Los Angeles, and later sparked off all the Fast&Furious bullshit blockbusters trends.. I would say on an indie level, the Hughes Brothers also had two revolutions, they introduced even grittier, MORE authentic versions of John Singleton films with Menace II Society and Dead Presidents (these are seriously groundbreaking movies) and then switched it up with From Hell and Book of Eli, however I don't think either of their revolutions ever translated into mainstream success.
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