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Old 01.24.2013, 04:27 PM   #17021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
Has anyone ever read John Simon? He's the biggest dick critic (but a great prose stylist) because he dislikes/hates damn near everything.

In an intro, he points out that when one loves something such as cinema, one becomes very discriminant. Nothing less than the best will do for the loved one. He'll never, for example, enjoy a John Waters movie.

Is he right?

i don't think so. i have a friend who loooooooooves movies, i mean really he's crazy about them, and he's the st. francis of assisi of films-- he loves any and all movies, practically without discrimination.

from what you say, sounds like john simon is only speaking for himself. but i don't think i've read him.
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Old 01.24.2013, 04:35 PM   #17022
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ps

Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
L'aventura is dull as fuck. Admit it. Not everyone who was chanting "Cut!" at the Cannes premiere was wrong. SUPERBAD is far more interesting.

And yet, __ ___ ____ {fill in the blanks}


---
At the end of a hard day, are you going to put on a slow, you-must-eat-your-vegetables-and-watch-this-movie-or-else-you-will-be-a-drooling-fool film?

Then again, when you're brain's on fire fire and hungry for sustenance, isn't anything less than excellent an affront?

---

haaa haaa, i love l'avventura but yes it put me to sleep the first time i watched it. the second time i tolerated it, the third time i loved it. didn't have that problem with la notte or l'eclisse though, i got into them right away.

but like you said, there are different movies for different days and situations.

my netflix queue is full of 5-start ratings that couldn't be more incompatible with each other.

i think that movies should be judged not by an absolute standard but by the promises they make to the audience. there are 5-star action movies and there are 1-star art films.

by the way i re-watched the star trek reboot recently and it was so much fun. 5-star for sure.
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Old 01.24.2013, 04:51 PM   #17023
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except for the pointless lens flares....

I think there are a lot of ways of judging a film, just like a book, or any other medium.

some films seek to purely entertain. Others seek to inform, or to portray history, or to create discussion, or just to scare the living shit out of you.

The films must be judged, as !@#$% says, on their own intent.

A movie like Ronin is a fantasy, purely meant to entertain. it cannot be compared on the same terms to something like Manchurian Candidate, which meant to enlighten as well as entertain.

If I list some of my fave movies, ones I would call perfectly awesome, they would include films that have no relevance to each other.

5th Element, Good The Bad & The Ugly, Waiting for Guffman, Die Hard...

4 different movies, all of which I consider perfect as is.
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Old 01.24.2013, 05:19 PM   #17024
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You are all so generous, and I often join you, but here's where I get stuck:

We are alone in the universe.

Without a God coming down and explaining every solitary mystery of existence, we're on our own. We have nothing to guide us except human wisdom.

The good news is human wisdom has been collected in art, philosophy and religion (three sides of the same die, in a way).

As such, an excellent but pointless bit of entertainment loses points next to the film that helps us negotiate our way through the universe.

AND/OR

What does it mean to be human?

Here, the sciences are welcome to lend a hand, and we appreciate it. But science can take us only so far. We require the humanities to help us fill out the picture if we are interested in fully answering the question.

Again, a film that delivers solid thrills and chuckles can't compete with a film that helps us work out the answer to our most fundamental question.

-----

So I like the idea that DIE HARD is a five-star movie (let's say) and so is Bergman's PERSONA.

But I hope you can see that it isn't just snobbery that makes me revere one and not the other.

---

(But we can't investigate the deeper questions constantly, so a few days ago I spent a fragment of my finite time on earth watching EXPENDABLES II and laughing my head off.)
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Old 01.24.2013, 05:25 PM   #17025
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for sure. the criteria by which something is judged is very important!

There is nothing more valuable though than making someone laugh who has not felt joy lately.
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Old 01.24.2013, 06:28 PM   #17026
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
Not everyone who was chanting "Cut!" at the Cannes premiere was wrong.

The same could be said about all the writers and directors who signed a letter straight after that screening, declaring it a masterpiece.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
At the end of a hard day, are you going to put on a slow, you-must-eat-your-vegetables-and-watch-this-movie-or-else-you-will-be-a-drooling-fool film?

Not everyone watches L'avventura out of some masochistic desire to educate themselves. While I'd never call it an exciting film, I find it massively enjoyable. It's not something I can watch just like that, but when I'm in the mood I honestly can't think of many more pleasurable ways to kill a few hours. That obviously suggests I lead an impossibly boring life (largely true) but for my sins I do really enjoy watching L'avventura. The whole masochism thing is as bogus an idea as the one that says a half intelligent person can only enjoying something 'crap', ironically.
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Old 01.24.2013, 06:54 PM   #17027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
I've finally decided that it depends why you're watching a movie.

This is something I've known for a long time now. I just don't get.. based on how you composed all of your posts, how this makes L'avventura "dull". You connected everything together as if it proves that L'avventura isn't enjoyable or something. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't think that Superbad is nearly as "interesting" as L'avventura. Is it funny? sure. Is it entertaining? yes again. I thought it was a pretty decent comedy film. But once again, I don't really know what you're talking about.

And while we're discussing L'avventura (ok who am I kidding? bashing L'avventura* ), I'd like to say that L'eclisse is much better and may even be the best film I've ever seen.
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Old 01.25.2013, 09:02 AM   #17028
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B est film I ever saw was Les Enfants du Paradis

It amde me laugh, it made me cry, it made me think, it made me awestruck, it made me want to watch it again and again
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Old 01.25.2013, 01:01 PM   #17029
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I was really high when I wrote all that. Sorry. Felt a little gasty.

There are two things going on.

The subjective judgement of the film, which is whatever. And yes, I believe you like L'avventure. (But admit it: lots of people fake it. You can tell.) In this case, I prefer SUPERBAD.


The objective, which we arrive at using the seriousness-of-intent/quality-of-execution metric Robin Williams made such fun of in Dead Poet's Society. In this case, there is no question that L'avventure is the superior film.
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Old 01.25.2013, 01:02 PM   #17030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
I was really high when I wrote all that.

Don't worry. So was I when I replied.
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Old 01.25.2013, 01:06 PM   #17031
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maybe im high all the time but it all made perfect sense to me

and yes, it isn't "just snobbery"
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Old 01.25.2013, 01:53 PM   #17032
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"snobbery" is what people with no discriminatory taste assign to those who do

I am a music snob, and an art snob, and will readily tell you quantified, personal reasons for all my opinions.
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Old 01.25.2013, 06:07 PM   #17033
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6/10

The music saves it (it's boring most of the time).
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Old 01.25.2013, 06:33 PM   #17034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Instigator
"snobbery" is what people with no discriminatory taste assign to those who do

I am a music snob, and an art snob, and will readily tell you quantified, personal reasons for all my opinions.

no, snobbery is different from selectivity in taste.

snobbery is an affectation of superiority, and it started with the bourgeois emulating the aristocracy after the french revolution, buying titles, etc.

in matters of film taste then, a proper snob would be someone who pretends to like antonioni so he can then claim to be part of the intelligentsia.

someone who just likes antonioni or whatever thing is "better" isn't by definition a snob.

in other words, what evollove was saying is that liking antonioni isn't something he does because "it's the cool thing to do".

the perfect example of a snob would be the hotel owner in "the visitors", if you've ever seen that movie-- it's fucking hilarious. another snob would be basil fawlty, who kisses the culo of aristocrats and looks down on his customers as "riff raff," and pretends to be educated when he's not.

the snob is, at heart, a social imposter.
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Old 01.25.2013, 07:46 PM   #17035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
no, snobbery is different from selectivity in taste.

snobbery is an affectation of superiority, and it started with the bourgeois emulating the aristocracy after the french revolution, buying titles, etc.

in matters of film taste then, a proper snob would be someone who pretends to like antonioni so he can then claim to be part of the intelligentsia.

someone who just likes antonioni or whatever thing is "better" isn't by definition a snob.

in other words, what evollove was saying is that liking antonioni isn't something he does because "it's the cool thing to do".

the perfect example of a snob would be the hotel owner in "the visitors", if you've ever seen that movie-- it's fucking hilarious. another snob would be basil fawlty, who kisses the culo of aristocrats and looks down on his customers as "riff raff," and pretends to be educated when he's not.

the snob is, at heart, a social imposter.


I love this. This is probably the best one-off discussion board post about snobbery I've ever read.

Seriously, this is actually... God. This is actually *good writing*
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Old 01.25.2013, 09:47 PM   #17036
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The last movie I watched was "Submarine D-7" from 1937, which I watched earlier tonight. It was OK, at least to the extent that it showed off lots of old naval ships, from subs to battlewagons. I was startled to see an old transport, the USS Henderson, showing up in many of the in-port scenes until it dawned on me that she must have transported the film crew and their equipment around to the various ports. Some parts were totally unrealistic, as when a Torpedoman's Mate 1/c [asses his Chief's exam and immediately gets promoted to Master Chief Torpedoman, which is impossible in the navy. But it was fun to see a 1930's submarine inside and out, as well as lots of four-piper DDs, an Omaha-class CL (USS Cincinatti), and a few World War I/early 1920's-era BBs.

One thing that raised my ire, however, was the film's apparent inability to speak the name of "Swede" Momsen, who almost single-handedly invented modern submarine safety technology. Not only did they have one of the movie's characters design his submarine rescue chamber, but when they referred to the Momsen Lung, they simply called it "the lung", with no mention of Momsen's name.
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Old 01.26.2013, 05:59 AM   #17037
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Metropolitan

A side of NY that doesn’t seem to feature in that many movies, besides the odd period drama, making this feel a little like something out of another time, without actually being so - which is the very point of the film, I suppose. Henry James meets the Breakfast Club-ish.
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Old 01.26.2013, 09:29 AM   #17038
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Wow--the James reference is even more spot on considering the next film (BARCELONA) is about Americans in Europe! Never thought of that.
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Old 01.26.2013, 12:15 PM   #17039
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Old 01.26.2013, 02:20 PM   #17040
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Metropolitan

A side of NY that doesn’t seem to feature in that many movies, besides the odd period drama, making this feel a little like something out of another time, without actually being so - which is the very point of the film, I suppose. Henry James meets the Breakfast Club-ish.

One of my favorites as well. Actually, I think we've talked about this film before on another thread about a year ago.
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