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Old 03.31.2013, 09:38 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by h8kurdt
Catcher In The Rye.


ha ha ha

i like some of salinger's short stories, but i fucking hate holden cauliflower
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Old 03.31.2013, 12:04 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by h8kurdt
Bunch o' miserable twats. I feel like I'm reading a blog by an A-level politics student who's favorite book is Catcher In The Rye.

great reference bro!

i can see you're too smart for this scene.
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Old 03.31.2013, 02:39 PM   #63
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deaders-- i found some review + interview with gray which might interest you (or not)

John Gray is a curious figure whose habitual assaults on humanism are all carried along with such breezy assertion and generalisation that his underlying bitter pessimism is cloaked in motley. For he’s a Harlequin: everything is either black or white in his writings, and moreover when it is black it is white, and vice versa.

[...]


I found one thing almost to agree with: Gray says that politics “at its best” should not be thought of as a utopian endeavour but as a way of managing circumstances. Yes: and, with good and sensible intentions, to improve them where possible. This last bit is the one that Gray seems to suggest is impossible. Thankfully few but the most depressed share that view. ■

http://rationalist.org.uk/articles/1...-looking-glass

Anyway I'm still curious about reading the fucker in his own words but I have a feeling that when I do it's not going to be my thing anyway. Depression and negativism are tremendously overrated-- and I say this as a recovering (here's to forever) depresso...
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Old 03.31.2013, 02:49 PM   #64
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well i am a recovering revolutionary utopian optimist.

if you read gray further you will see how todays progressivism and optimism and ideals of incremental improvement are descended from our religious past and are historically unique cultural ideologies. this is a fancy way of saying 'bullshit'.

but despite what you might think adopting positions like gray does does not imply conservatism. if anything his pessimism is a wish to defend liberal civilization even if it may be a hopeless and impossible endeavour.

this is what i like about gray and other pessimists, that at their core they are trying to defend basic civility in an indifferent universe. this to me is more noble and sensible than believing in moral progress as our state murders and tortures people on a daily basis.
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Old 03.31.2013, 02:55 PM   #65
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yeah i don't believe in heaven at the end of history. but just like this interviewer, i don't know any serious thinker who does:

http://rationalist.org.uk/articles/9...iews-john-gray

having said that, i'm happy for small improvements. right now it seems gay marriage is on the verge of becoming the law of the land here in 'merica. is that going to end genocide, reverse global warming or cure ass cancer? of course not. but i'm still happy for small victories.
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Old 03.31.2013, 03:19 PM   #66
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so genocide and global warming are just things that happen but gay rights is something we do... convenient placement of agency there.
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Old 03.31.2013, 05:22 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_battery
so genocide and global warming are just things that happen but gay rights is something we do... convenient placement of agency there.

haa haa haa haa

convenient

is that the stench of ill will i smell, or does my nose deceive me?

please, do tell
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Old 03.31.2013, 06:13 PM   #68
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well all im saying is that you're saying when good things happen we do them and when bad things happen these are things that happen, like nebulous things out there. not things that we do. its a convenient way of pretending we are innocent or half innocent and striving to be good and all that shit
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Old 03.31.2013, 09:39 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by dead_battery
well all im saying is that you're saying when good things happen we do them and when bad things happen these are things that happen, like nebulous things out there. not things that we do. its a convenient way of pretending we are innocent or half innocent and striving to be good and all that shit

ay, torquemada, the obsession with sin! and guilt! so fucking christian!

i just came back from having some beers with my lovely accomplice and i swear i only have 60 seconds to spare for you but here till tomorrow:

we are all fucking culpable, but we aren't ominipotent either. renounce grandiosity and have the courage and humility to cultivate your own garden and learn to be content when it bears fruit. then move on to the next thing. you are not the emperor of the world. you can't fix everything.

cynics are always or almost always broken-hearted disappointed romantics. get over yourself. it's not about you. it's about everything that's around you. fix what you can and enjoy your labor. it will add up in the long run. you just can't save the world all on your own. you cannot suffer for the whole world. pick your battles, fight them, win, lose, win, lose, win, lose, on and fucking on, like that. moses never saw the promise land for a reason--nobody ever does. that doesn't mean we crap our pants and devote ourselves to fingerpointing. go help someone/ win something. finding fault with everything only leads to paralysis. okay, good night & happy monday, sucka-- it's time to get to work now.
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Old 03.31.2013, 09:39 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by dead_battery
well all im saying is that you're saying when good things happen we do them and when bad things happen these are things that happen, like nebulous things out there. not things that we do. its a convenient way of pretending we are innocent or half innocent and striving to be good and all that shit

ay, torquemada, the obsession with sin! and guilt! so fucking christian!

i just came back from having some beers with my lovely accomplice and i swear i only have 60 seconds to spare for you but here till tomorrow:

we are all fucking culpable, collectively, but we aren't ominipotent either. renounce grandiosity and have the courage and humility to cultivate your own garden and learn to be content when it bears fruit. then move on to the next thing. you are not the emperor of the world. you can't fix everything.

cynics are always or almost always broken-hearted disappointed romantics. get over yourself. it's not about you. it's about everything that's around you. fix what you can and enjoy your labor. it will add up in the long run. you just can't save the world all on your own. you cannot suffer for the whole world. pick your battles, fight them, win, lose, win, lose, win, lose, on and fucking on, like that. moses never saw the promised land for a reason--nobody ever does. that doesn't mean we crap our pants and devote ourselves to fingerpointing and crying. go help someone/ win something / make something useful. finding fault with everything only leads to paralysis. appreciate the tiny morsels because it's all we ever get. okay, good night & happy monday, sucka-- it's time to get to work now.
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Old 03.31.2013, 10:37 PM   #71
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again you are attributing to me positions that i don't hold. there's also no 'obsession' with sin and guilt in what i'm saying. what there is is a pessimistic view of human life and a refusal to believe in its latest religious trend which is secular progressive incremental improvement of the world. none of this asks for or tries to impart a judgement/punishment scenario which is what sin and guilt is based on.

you are instructing me on what to do with my life to me but it looks like you are really talking to yourself.

i don't think i've gotten anything out of this discussion so i'll leave it there.
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Old 03.31.2013, 11:23 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_battery
well i am a recovering revolutionary utopian optimist.

if you read gray further you will see how todays progressivism and optimism and ideals of incremental improvement are descended from our religious past and are historically unique cultural ideologies. this is a fancy way of saying 'bullshit'.

but despite what you might think adopting positions like gray does does not imply conservatism. if anything his pessimism is a wish to defend liberal civilization even if it may be a hopeless and impossible endeavour.

this is what i like about gray and other pessimists, that at their core they are trying to defend basic civility in an indifferent universe. this to me is more noble and sensible than believing in moral progress as our state murders and tortures people on a daily basis.

It's more directly linked to conservatism than John Gray's stuff, but you might find some of the arguments in this book interesting.

 


http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/genera...=9780199968978
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Old 04.01.2013, 03:39 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by demonrail666
It's more directly linked to conservatism than John Gray's stuff, but you might find some of the arguments in this book interesting.

 


http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/genera...=9780199968978

Bloody hell,don't justify his negativity more than he already is.

Put it this way-where does being a miserable moose get you? No where. So what's the point in that outlook?
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Down with this sort of thing.
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Old 04.01.2013, 07:21 PM   #74
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being a pessimist can bring good luck. pessimism allows you to enjoy life better but not fluently than others. the more of a surprize the better. appreciating the average outcome of life comes equal to all of us whether or not we wait positively or not. such feelings of negativity doesnt mean anything to anyone. even to those who wait.


if dead_battery got him some good ass/booty/pussy, he would project the same feelings of Scrooge McDuck from Duck Tales after discovering a tomb full of gold. deaden and surely cynical of such universal grand luck. aka, bored with such finds.

we're all full of shit!!!
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Old 04.01.2013, 07:39 PM   #75
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i'm a firm believer in anything. as the big nose woman with the ugly mole on her face and the gyspy hat would say:..."it's all in yr future".
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Old 04.01.2013, 10:16 PM   #76
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I don't really care for Gay marriage either way it goes.
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Old 04.01.2013, 10:29 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by static-harmony
I don't really care for Gay marriage either way it goes.

not that you need it/ want it at this point, but it matters for things like immigration, insurance, adoption, taxes, inheritance, financial planning/retirement benefits, visitation/end of life issues, and a whole host of other legal protections including, of course, divorce: i personally know two gay couples who broke up after many years of cohabitation, and in each case the dumpees walked away with nothing.

it's not about romance, or religion. it's a civil rights issue.
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Old 04.02.2013, 01:17 AM   #78
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I know what you mean, but I am still blah about it. Maybe I just feel jaded about it because it has been a long time coming.
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Old 04.02.2013, 08:13 AM   #79
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I know what you mean, but I am still blah about it. Maybe I just feel jaded about it because it has been a long time coming.

yeah journos & spin doctors are saying that it's over and done and all that and while i'm encouraged by the shift in public opinion it's not going to be any kind of instant coffee already with sugar in it. there's still going to be a lot of opposition to deal with.

i mean, just look at universal health care: it took 100 years to bring about some form of it (and "obamacare" was really a nixon plan), and the full implementation is still a year away-- and still, it continues to find opposition at every step. very highly fucking annoying.

but still victory is in sight and that's a good thing.

just hang in there & keep punching.
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Old 04.02.2013, 08:40 AM   #80
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If you do a google search for "gay British Old Actor" the first response is Ian McKellen's wikipedia page.

Ian McKellen was asked about how he felt about gay marriage, and he said "I thought the great thing about being gay was that we did not have to get married."
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