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Old 03.30.2013, 08:40 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_battery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcnCmx7F6a8

Or you can d/l or buy his books. The latest one is good.

ha ha ha-- that's opening with a land rover commercial. hilarious.

okay thanks. i mean-- damn you-- that's better, right? right? anyway... thanks from me, take it however you like.

gonna watch now.
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Old 03.30.2013, 08:45 PM   #62
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that talk is promoting his book 'the immortalization commission'. which was what the commies set up when lenin died.

he even mentions some crazy fuck who suggested they put cubes in soviet towns because in the future when their science had conquered death lenin would be able to communicate to them through these cubes. and they actually did it until the nazis invaded.
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Old 03.30.2013, 08:49 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_battery
X34202@?::>::@{ person:

you are attributing an xtianity to me that is just not there. i mean i really hope it isn't, if it is there is a problem with my thinking and i've got hidden assumptions i don't want.

i didn't say any of those things. i didn't say anything was 'wrong' with pleasure. i questioned the pursuit of it.

i'd also question your need to question me about this. why is it important for you that someone else has to make the now mandatory blind assertion of the superiority of pleasure. why is it wrong for me to dissent from this? why if you are so happy is my dissent even an issue for you?

there are answers to all those questions which prove my point.

i don't really believe in your happiness. i think its more of an ideology. i think in fact that in many cases its either psychosis or superstition. people used to believe in magical elves and shit and now they believe happy thoughts can actually make you happy. like you can will it. and theres junk science to back this bullshit up.

paradoxically, if you had said nothing at all i could have believed you. but your attitude is so common as to be the norm now, only you are expressing it in a far less aggressive manner than most people do. if they didn't need others to believe in their happiness i would believe they might actually have it.

when someone else refuses to worship this so called happiness and they get attacked for it, it exposes the fact that this happiness is something we are performing.

i don't care what you think about me or what you believe i pursue or not-- really i don't need your approval, just like you don't need mine-- i just though that you were suffering unnecessarily and unconsciously. damn, i see someone on the side of the road with a broken leg, i stop to help (it's an instinct).

but if the pain is voluntary/ experimental/ conscious on your part, or you just want people to leave you alone, then you don't need anybody's help and it's none of my business really. i'll move along/nothing to see here. got it.
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Old 03.30.2013, 08:58 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_battery
that talk is promoting his book 'the immortalization commission'. which was what the commies set up when lenin died.

he even mentions some crazy fuck who suggested they put cubes in soviet towns because in the future when their science had conquered death lenin would be able to communicate to them through these cubes. and they actually did it until the nazis invaded.

ah. it was a very long intro, i didn't know where he was going. 10 minutes into it i still didn't so i have now spaced it out. ill google his artcles maybe.
--

ps- looking at the time stamps, it appears it was less than 10.

pps- just for the sake of clarity, i'm not a benthamist-- that sucka was a simplistic simpleton, though his try wasn't all bad, considering.

ppps- maybe im a tactical benthamist of sorts, haa haaa haaa
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Old 03.31.2013, 03:51 AM   #65
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Bunch o' miserable twats. I feel like I'm reading a blog by an A-level politics student who's favorite book is Catcher In The Rye.
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Down with this sort of thing.
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Old 03.31.2013, 09:38 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h8kurdt
Catcher In The Rye.


ha ha ha

i like some of salinger's short stories, but i fucking hate holden cauliflower
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Old 03.31.2013, 12:04 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h8kurdt
Bunch o' miserable twats. I feel like I'm reading a blog by an A-level politics student who's favorite book is Catcher In The Rye.

great reference bro!

i can see you're too smart for this scene.
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Old 03.31.2013, 02:39 PM   #68
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deaders-- i found some review + interview with gray which might interest you (or not)

John Gray is a curious figure whose habitual assaults on humanism are all carried along with such breezy assertion and generalisation that his underlying bitter pessimism is cloaked in motley. For he’s a Harlequin: everything is either black or white in his writings, and moreover when it is black it is white, and vice versa.

[...]


I found one thing almost to agree with: Gray says that politics “at its best” should not be thought of as a utopian endeavour but as a way of managing circumstances. Yes: and, with good and sensible intentions, to improve them where possible. This last bit is the one that Gray seems to suggest is impossible. Thankfully few but the most depressed share that view. ■

http://rationalist.org.uk/articles/1...-looking-glass

Anyway I'm still curious about reading the fucker in his own words but I have a feeling that when I do it's not going to be my thing anyway. Depression and negativism are tremendously overrated-- and I say this as a recovering (here's to forever) depresso...
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Old 03.31.2013, 02:49 PM   #69
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well i am a recovering revolutionary utopian optimist.

if you read gray further you will see how todays progressivism and optimism and ideals of incremental improvement are descended from our religious past and are historically unique cultural ideologies. this is a fancy way of saying 'bullshit'.

but despite what you might think adopting positions like gray does does not imply conservatism. if anything his pessimism is a wish to defend liberal civilization even if it may be a hopeless and impossible endeavour.

this is what i like about gray and other pessimists, that at their core they are trying to defend basic civility in an indifferent universe. this to me is more noble and sensible than believing in moral progress as our state murders and tortures people on a daily basis.
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Old 03.31.2013, 02:55 PM   #70
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yeah i don't believe in heaven at the end of history. but just like this interviewer, i don't know any serious thinker who does:

http://rationalist.org.uk/articles/9...iews-john-gray

having said that, i'm happy for small improvements. right now it seems gay marriage is on the verge of becoming the law of the land here in 'merica. is that going to end genocide, reverse global warming or cure ass cancer? of course not. but i'm still happy for small victories.
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Old 03.31.2013, 03:19 PM   #71
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so genocide and global warming are just things that happen but gay rights is something we do... convenient placement of agency there.
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Old 03.31.2013, 05:22 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_battery
so genocide and global warming are just things that happen but gay rights is something we do... convenient placement of agency there.

haa haa haa haa

convenient

is that the stench of ill will i smell, or does my nose deceive me?

please, do tell
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Old 03.31.2013, 06:13 PM   #73
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well all im saying is that you're saying when good things happen we do them and when bad things happen these are things that happen, like nebulous things out there. not things that we do. its a convenient way of pretending we are innocent or half innocent and striving to be good and all that shit
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Old 03.31.2013, 09:39 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_battery
well all im saying is that you're saying when good things happen we do them and when bad things happen these are things that happen, like nebulous things out there. not things that we do. its a convenient way of pretending we are innocent or half innocent and striving to be good and all that shit

ay, torquemada, the obsession with sin! and guilt! so fucking christian!

i just came back from having some beers with my lovely accomplice and i swear i only have 60 seconds to spare for you but here till tomorrow:

we are all fucking culpable, but we aren't ominipotent either. renounce grandiosity and have the courage and humility to cultivate your own garden and learn to be content when it bears fruit. then move on to the next thing. you are not the emperor of the world. you can't fix everything.

cynics are always or almost always broken-hearted disappointed romantics. get over yourself. it's not about you. it's about everything that's around you. fix what you can and enjoy your labor. it will add up in the long run. you just can't save the world all on your own. you cannot suffer for the whole world. pick your battles, fight them, win, lose, win, lose, win, lose, on and fucking on, like that. moses never saw the promise land for a reason--nobody ever does. that doesn't mean we crap our pants and devote ourselves to fingerpointing. go help someone/ win something. finding fault with everything only leads to paralysis. okay, good night & happy monday, sucka-- it's time to get to work now.
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Old 03.31.2013, 09:39 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_battery
well all im saying is that you're saying when good things happen we do them and when bad things happen these are things that happen, like nebulous things out there. not things that we do. its a convenient way of pretending we are innocent or half innocent and striving to be good and all that shit

ay, torquemada, the obsession with sin! and guilt! so fucking christian!

i just came back from having some beers with my lovely accomplice and i swear i only have 60 seconds to spare for you but here till tomorrow:

we are all fucking culpable, collectively, but we aren't ominipotent either. renounce grandiosity and have the courage and humility to cultivate your own garden and learn to be content when it bears fruit. then move on to the next thing. you are not the emperor of the world. you can't fix everything.

cynics are always or almost always broken-hearted disappointed romantics. get over yourself. it's not about you. it's about everything that's around you. fix what you can and enjoy your labor. it will add up in the long run. you just can't save the world all on your own. you cannot suffer for the whole world. pick your battles, fight them, win, lose, win, lose, win, lose, on and fucking on, like that. moses never saw the promised land for a reason--nobody ever does. that doesn't mean we crap our pants and devote ourselves to fingerpointing and crying. go help someone/ win something / make something useful. finding fault with everything only leads to paralysis. appreciate the tiny morsels because it's all we ever get. okay, good night & happy monday, sucka-- it's time to get to work now.
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Old 03.31.2013, 10:37 PM   #76
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again you are attributing to me positions that i don't hold. there's also no 'obsession' with sin and guilt in what i'm saying. what there is is a pessimistic view of human life and a refusal to believe in its latest religious trend which is secular progressive incremental improvement of the world. none of this asks for or tries to impart a judgement/punishment scenario which is what sin and guilt is based on.

you are instructing me on what to do with my life to me but it looks like you are really talking to yourself.

i don't think i've gotten anything out of this discussion so i'll leave it there.
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Old 03.31.2013, 11:23 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_battery
well i am a recovering revolutionary utopian optimist.

if you read gray further you will see how todays progressivism and optimism and ideals of incremental improvement are descended from our religious past and are historically unique cultural ideologies. this is a fancy way of saying 'bullshit'.

but despite what you might think adopting positions like gray does does not imply conservatism. if anything his pessimism is a wish to defend liberal civilization even if it may be a hopeless and impossible endeavour.

this is what i like about gray and other pessimists, that at their core they are trying to defend basic civility in an indifferent universe. this to me is more noble and sensible than believing in moral progress as our state murders and tortures people on a daily basis.

It's more directly linked to conservatism than John Gray's stuff, but you might find some of the arguments in this book interesting.

 


http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/genera...=9780199968978
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Old 04.01.2013, 03:39 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
It's more directly linked to conservatism than John Gray's stuff, but you might find some of the arguments in this book interesting.

 


http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/genera...=9780199968978

Bloody hell,don't justify his negativity more than he already is.

Put it this way-where does being a miserable moose get you? No where. So what's the point in that outlook?
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Down with this sort of thing.
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Old 04.01.2013, 07:21 PM   #79
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being a pessimist can bring good luck. pessimism allows you to enjoy life better but not fluently than others. the more of a surprize the better. appreciating the average outcome of life comes equal to all of us whether or not we wait positively or not. such feelings of negativity doesnt mean anything to anyone. even to those who wait.


if dead_battery got him some good ass/booty/pussy, he would project the same feelings of Scrooge McDuck from Duck Tales after discovering a tomb full of gold. deaden and surely cynical of such universal grand luck. aka, bored with such finds.

we're all full of shit!!!
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Old 04.01.2013, 07:39 PM   #80
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i'm a firm believer in anything. as the big nose woman with the ugly mole on her face and the gyspy hat would say:..."it's all in yr future".
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