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Old 03.30.2013, 06:43 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_battery
i do not miss that shit. it's never done me any favours.

so why not find pleasure in their absence? it's a huge freedom (and life is short).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_battery
to paraphrase john gray "happiness is a fiction i can do without."

who's that? regardless-- with a name like "gray" i feel one has no chance for happiness. less gray, more ru paul!

but happiness-- i don't know about definitions of that shit. why even construct such a fiction. however-- survival is good, and pleasure abounds, and not just the coarse kind (though coarse ain't bad either).

--

ps- i just read john gray's wikipedia page. he sounds like a no-fun bitter cunt. fuck him! (morality is an illusion, yet he moralizes like a champ) is that who you follow? find a better prophet-- furreal!
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Old 03.30.2013, 07:17 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by _slavo_
I must admit I have some prejudice towards Gypsies.

You won't be saying that when you next run out of clothes pegs.
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Old 03.30.2013, 07:30 PM   #43
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okay. reading a bit further, i must say (deadbattery), your reading of john gray seems grimmer than gray himself.

though i don't know. you've made me curious now.
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Old 03.30.2013, 07:47 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
so why not find pleasure in their absence? it's a huge freedom (and life is short).



who's that? regardless-- with a name like "gray" i feel one has no chance for happiness. less gray, more ru paul!

but happiness-- i don't know about definitions of that shit. why even construct such a fiction. however-- survival is good, and pleasure abounds, and not just the coarse kind (though coarse ain't bad either).

--

ps- i just read john gray's wikipedia page. he sounds like a no-fun bitter cunt. fuck him! (morality is an illusion, yet he moralizes like a champ) is that who you follow? find a better prophet-- furreal!

but why the suggestion i should pursue pleasure at all? why is pursuing pleasure mandatory these days, and daring to dissent means being sneered at and facing aggression?

i know very well why but i'm going to leave it there.
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Old 03.30.2013, 07:52 PM   #45
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcnCmx7F6a8

Or you can d/l or buy his books. The latest one is good.
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Old 03.30.2013, 08:24 PM   #46
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fuck sex.
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Old 03.30.2013, 08:31 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_battery
but why the suggestion i should pursue pleasure at all? why is pursuing pleasure mandatory these days, and daring to dissent means being sneered at and facing aggression?

i know very well why but i'm going to leave it there.

what's wrong with pleasure? what's wrong with the body? what's wrong with instinct? christian morality condemns them all, but i am not a christian.

the body is wiser and a lot more refined than the christian moralizers give it credit for. it's mostly ideas--bad ideas-- that are damaging and stupid.

alright good luck man. oh, sorry-- i mean bad luck-- cuz that's better, right? right? okay. whatever you wish.
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Old 03.30.2013, 08:36 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by foreverasskiss
sex.

this is just a journo talking but you might find the subject interesting, maybe:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...ad2_story.html
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Old 03.30.2013, 08:40 PM   #49
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X34202@?::>::@{ person:

you are attributing an xtianity to me that is just not there. i mean i really hope it isn't, if it is there is a problem with my thinking and i've got hidden assumptions i don't want.

i didn't say any of those things. i didn't say anything was 'wrong' with pleasure. i questioned the pursuit of it.

i'd also question your need to question me about this. why is it important for you that someone else has to make the now mandatory blind assertion of the superiority of pleasure. why is it wrong for me to dissent from this? why if you are so happy is my dissent even an issue for you?

there are answers to all those questions which prove my point.

i don't really believe in your happiness. i think its more of an ideology. i think in fact that in many cases its either psychosis or superstition. people used to believe in magical elves and shit and now they believe happy thoughts can actually make you happy. like you can will it. and theres junk science to back this bullshit up.

paradoxically, if you had said nothing at all i could have believed you. but your attitude is so common as to be the norm now, only you are expressing it in a far less aggressive manner than most people do. if they didn't need others to believe in their happiness i would believe they might actually have it.

when someone else refuses to worship this so called happiness and they get attacked for it, it exposes the fact that this happiness is something we are performing.
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Old 03.30.2013, 08:40 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_battery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcnCmx7F6a8

Or you can d/l or buy his books. The latest one is good.

ha ha ha-- that's opening with a land rover commercial. hilarious.

okay thanks. i mean-- damn you-- that's better, right? right? anyway... thanks from me, take it however you like.

gonna watch now.
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Old 03.30.2013, 08:45 PM   #51
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that talk is promoting his book 'the immortalization commission'. which was what the commies set up when lenin died.

he even mentions some crazy fuck who suggested they put cubes in soviet towns because in the future when their science had conquered death lenin would be able to communicate to them through these cubes. and they actually did it until the nazis invaded.
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Old 03.30.2013, 08:49 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_battery
X34202@?::>::@{ person:

you are attributing an xtianity to me that is just not there. i mean i really hope it isn't, if it is there is a problem with my thinking and i've got hidden assumptions i don't want.

i didn't say any of those things. i didn't say anything was 'wrong' with pleasure. i questioned the pursuit of it.

i'd also question your need to question me about this. why is it important for you that someone else has to make the now mandatory blind assertion of the superiority of pleasure. why is it wrong for me to dissent from this? why if you are so happy is my dissent even an issue for you?

there are answers to all those questions which prove my point.

i don't really believe in your happiness. i think its more of an ideology. i think in fact that in many cases its either psychosis or superstition. people used to believe in magical elves and shit and now they believe happy thoughts can actually make you happy. like you can will it. and theres junk science to back this bullshit up.

paradoxically, if you had said nothing at all i could have believed you. but your attitude is so common as to be the norm now, only you are expressing it in a far less aggressive manner than most people do. if they didn't need others to believe in their happiness i would believe they might actually have it.

when someone else refuses to worship this so called happiness and they get attacked for it, it exposes the fact that this happiness is something we are performing.

i don't care what you think about me or what you believe i pursue or not-- really i don't need your approval, just like you don't need mine-- i just though that you were suffering unnecessarily and unconsciously. damn, i see someone on the side of the road with a broken leg, i stop to help (it's an instinct).

but if the pain is voluntary/ experimental/ conscious on your part, or you just want people to leave you alone, then you don't need anybody's help and it's none of my business really. i'll move along/nothing to see here. got it.
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Old 03.30.2013, 08:58 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_battery
that talk is promoting his book 'the immortalization commission'. which was what the commies set up when lenin died.

he even mentions some crazy fuck who suggested they put cubes in soviet towns because in the future when their science had conquered death lenin would be able to communicate to them through these cubes. and they actually did it until the nazis invaded.

ah. it was a very long intro, i didn't know where he was going. 10 minutes into it i still didn't so i have now spaced it out. ill google his artcles maybe.
--

ps- looking at the time stamps, it appears it was less than 10.

pps- just for the sake of clarity, i'm not a benthamist-- that sucka was a simplistic simpleton, though his try wasn't all bad, considering.

ppps- maybe im a tactical benthamist of sorts, haa haaa haaa
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Old 03.31.2013, 03:51 AM   #54
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Bunch o' miserable twats. I feel like I'm reading a blog by an A-level politics student who's favorite book is Catcher In The Rye.
__________________


Down with this sort of thing.
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Old 03.31.2013, 09:38 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h8kurdt
Catcher In The Rye.


ha ha ha

i like some of salinger's short stories, but i fucking hate holden cauliflower
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Old 03.31.2013, 12:04 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h8kurdt
Bunch o' miserable twats. I feel like I'm reading a blog by an A-level politics student who's favorite book is Catcher In The Rye.

great reference bro!

i can see you're too smart for this scene.
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Old 03.31.2013, 02:39 PM   #57
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deaders-- i found some review + interview with gray which might interest you (or not)

John Gray is a curious figure whose habitual assaults on humanism are all carried along with such breezy assertion and generalisation that his underlying bitter pessimism is cloaked in motley. For he’s a Harlequin: everything is either black or white in his writings, and moreover when it is black it is white, and vice versa.

[...]


I found one thing almost to agree with: Gray says that politics “at its best” should not be thought of as a utopian endeavour but as a way of managing circumstances. Yes: and, with good and sensible intentions, to improve them where possible. This last bit is the one that Gray seems to suggest is impossible. Thankfully few but the most depressed share that view. ■

http://rationalist.org.uk/articles/1...-looking-glass

Anyway I'm still curious about reading the fucker in his own words but I have a feeling that when I do it's not going to be my thing anyway. Depression and negativism are tremendously overrated-- and I say this as a recovering (here's to forever) depresso...
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Old 03.31.2013, 02:49 PM   #58
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well i am a recovering revolutionary utopian optimist.

if you read gray further you will see how todays progressivism and optimism and ideals of incremental improvement are descended from our religious past and are historically unique cultural ideologies. this is a fancy way of saying 'bullshit'.

but despite what you might think adopting positions like gray does does not imply conservatism. if anything his pessimism is a wish to defend liberal civilization even if it may be a hopeless and impossible endeavour.

this is what i like about gray and other pessimists, that at their core they are trying to defend basic civility in an indifferent universe. this to me is more noble and sensible than believing in moral progress as our state murders and tortures people on a daily basis.
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Old 03.31.2013, 02:55 PM   #59
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yeah i don't believe in heaven at the end of history. but just like this interviewer, i don't know any serious thinker who does:

http://rationalist.org.uk/articles/9...iews-john-gray

having said that, i'm happy for small improvements. right now it seems gay marriage is on the verge of becoming the law of the land here in 'merica. is that going to end genocide, reverse global warming or cure ass cancer? of course not. but i'm still happy for small victories.
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Old 03.31.2013, 03:19 PM   #60
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so genocide and global warming are just things that happen but gay rights is something we do... convenient placement of agency there.
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