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Old 02.16.2013, 02:33 PM   #81
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i'm listening to that Hodgy EP from last year. i'm high and it's great.
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Old 02.16.2013, 08:38 PM   #82
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my wife said "64" by MellowHype makes her angry.
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Old 02.16.2013, 08:39 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
Here is the list
Almost half of it has been released in all the post-humous Makaveli and Tupac "legit" albums but they are all remixes. The "bootlegs" were initially an LA only thing, you grabbed em at the Compton Swapmeet which is in the MOB neighborhood. These were all made by the Outlawz from 48 hours of tape that Tupac had been rapping on. A lot of those tapes were acapella free-styles, raps, and notes that Pac had put on tape and the Outlawz later had produced and they rapped on it. Others are "out-takes" from earlier studio sessions. However, the Outlawz mixes from the bootlegs better reflect the sound and vibe that Tupac would have wanted, they sound like Tupac albums. A lot of the later reissues have also been remixed to avoid legal battles with the other artists who worked on the bootleg versions, and so they don't necessarily sound like Pac. So I stick with the boots which are not readily available in the internet age. In 1999, they were like solid gold.

thx dude. Was curious. I've listened to all teh bootlegs, but last time was probalby like 2008. I stick to legit albums far more. So was just curious how it played out.
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Old 02.16.2013, 09:09 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noisereductions
thx dude. Was curious. I've listened to all teh bootlegs, but last time was probalby like 2008. I stick to legit albums far more. So was just curious how it played out.

Afeni Shakur didn't like the bootlegs, but that is probably because quite literally they came out under shady circumstances. DeathRow was initially started as a money laundering scheme which never intended to be so commercially successful. All the folks who worked there were gang affiliated, mostly drug dealers with some crooked cops too. After Tupac's death, in between pending lawsuits over his archives and back catelouge, all the bootlegs showed up all over LA. Again, initially in MOB Pirus (the set Suge and most of DeathRow were part of) neighborhoods. Many folks believed there was a direct connection between these leaked albums and DeathRow. Afeni herself sued them many times claiming that DeathRow was releasing the bootlegs on the side to make cash off the books and steal Tupac's archive materials. She did inevitably win many of those suits which is where all the "legit" post-houmous albums came out. However, to deal with copyright issues and because of her own matters of taste, she had most if not ALL the archive material remixed in the studio. While Afeni doesn't want to admit it, those remixes reflect HER interpretation of Tupac, and not necessarily Tupac's interpretation. True, about 50% of the Makaveli bootleg material is garbage mixed, and about 25% probably was just acapella tapes which were quickly remixed over some beats that Pac had never heard or had anything to do with. However, for a solid 50% of those bootlegs are outtakes and unreleased rough mixes, especially those with the Outlawz rapping, that most definitely reflect Tupac's style from 1994-1996 WAAAAAAY more than the legit reissued versions which came out later.

So while I totally support Afeni Shakur, in all actuality it seems to me she let her ego get in the way and those remixes do NOT sound like how Tupac would have wanted them as Makaveli. The good stuff on the bootlegs I feel better sounds like how it is obvious that Makaveli would have wanted them. The bootleg material all sounds like a continuation of All Eyes on Me and the Seven Day Theory, the later remixed reissues really don't have any kind of sound at all, they are all just loosely put together as an anthology of sorts. That is why I bump the bootlegs, I like them better, they just feel more Tupac than the legit reissues..
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Old 02.16.2013, 09:38 PM   #85
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as far as hip hop is considered. i had some ribs and hot dogs with joe then paid him back with some Paul Masson.

awesome ribs with no flav
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Old 02.16.2013, 09:49 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
While Afeni doesn't want to admit it, those remixes reflect HER interpretation of Tupac, and not necessarily Tupac's interpretation. True, about 50% of the Makaveli bootleg material is garbage mixed, and about 25% probably was just acapella tapes which were quickly remixed over some beats that Pac had never heard or had anything to do with. However, for a solid 50% of those bootlegs are outtakes and unreleased rough mixes, especially those with the Outlawz rapping, that most definitely reflect Tupac's style from 1994-1996 WAAAAAAY more than the legit reissued versions which came out later.

yeah that makes sense. It's tough for me though cuz I kind of hate bootlegs. But for sure, in this case the bootlegs are closer to the intended material. Though I do find the resulting uh "legit" releases interesting as counterpoint to the source material.
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Old 02.16.2013, 10:01 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noisereductions
yeah that makes sense. It's tough for me though cuz I kind of hate bootlegs. But for sure, in this case the bootlegs are closer to the intended material. Though I do find the resulting uh "legit" releases interesting as counterpoint to the source material.

I agree about bootlegs. I like true bootlegs (i.e. live concert recordings, preferably soundboard) but in regards to leaked copies, I usually wait for the better original mix to come out. However, sometimes leaks are better. For example, I still only listen to the leaked version of deftones White Pony, I think it is better than the final mix. I haven't heard it, but all the radiohead fans tell me the leaked Kid-A is WAY better than the later released version.

With the Makaveli bootlegs, bootlegs isn't the best name. They are more like the unreleased rough mixes that Eddie Kramer and Jeanne Hendrix later released, however in this instance, not quite legitimately. Again, I just can't even listen to those reissues, even though I want to respect Afeni on this one, artistically, I have to disagree regardless of the politics.
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Old 02.16.2013, 10:06 PM   #88
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sometimes though I prefer the worse sounding "official" version cuz it's official. Like in the case of Deftones or Radiohead.

But in the case of 2pac it becomes a true dilemma for me. :\
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Old 02.16.2013, 10:21 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noisereductions
sometimes though I prefer the worse sounding "official" version cuz it's official. Like in the case of Deftones or Radiohead.

But in the case of 2pac it becomes a true dilemma for me. :\

I bought the legit White Pony. I just didn't like the mix. Further I almost cherish the leaked version for the sheer nostalgia of it. I was in high school and picked that up a month early like it was some kind of James Bond secret yo.

I say with the Tupac situation, that since you seem to already own the legit versions there should be no dilemma. You did your part. You contributed. The Amaru Foundation appreciates your donations. Now the fan of Tupac's art in you can also enjoy the "bootlegs" which to many and my own opinion, better reflect what the original artist would have wanted because again, at least half of the bootleg material are unreleased rough mixes that more than likely were directly as-is Tupac approved, whereas in my humble opinion having heard both, the legit reissued remixes sound like shit. They sound like mid-2000s rap, not mid 1990s-rap. It'd be like if Courtney Love had The Black Keys remix the Nirvana Box Set material
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Old 02.17.2013, 10:20 AM   #90
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hahaha.

In fairness a lot of that Pac stuff gets overly dissed. I mean, Pac's Life and Loyal to the Game are pretty bad. But Better Dayz, Until The End of Time and R U Still Down are all pretty damn good collections -- so that's 6 discs of pretty quality material.

Maybe someday we'll see an overground release of the original bootlegs in a box or something.
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Old 02.17.2013, 06:50 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noisereductions
hahaha.

In fairness a lot of that Pac stuff gets overly dissed. I mean, Pac's Life and Loyal to the Game are pretty bad. But Better Dayz, Until The End of Time and R U Still Down are all pretty damn good collections -- so that's 6 discs of pretty quality material.

Maybe someday we'll see an overground release of the original bootlegs in a box or something.

I do have Better Dayz, R U Still Down, and of course Still I Rise but Until the End of Time is part of those mixes I don't like. To mid-2000s bumpin in the da club shit, not what Outlawz Immortal were doing from 94-96 which is what the rough mixes better reflect. Check out EVERY track from Until the End of Time but on the Makaveli Bootlegs versions and it is the perfect example of what is wrong with the remixed reissues than the leaked originals. Rough mix or not, the originals are so much better its like night and day. I can't honestly imagine Tupac approving of half the beats of the remixes than what was on the originals, as again the originals sound like that almost gothic, spooky, dark rap which was Outlawz Immortal (also think E-40 Element of Surprise era, Kool Keith as Dr Dooom, GraveDiggaz, Bone Thugz N Harmony, The Luniz, Scarface etc etc)..

Maybe Afeni just couldn't accept Tupac for who he really was, a straight gangster. N.W.A and Eazy E were fucking straight gangster, which is why Dre and Cube had to leave, cuz those two ninjas weren't gangsters, they were just rappers. Ruthless Records was about drug dealing and gang-banging, not just making records. DeathRow Records was about drug dealing and gang banging. Tupac joined M.O.B. Pirus. In fact Tupac as Makaveli the Don was part of the new generation of M.O.B., which changed the original meaning of MOB to Money Over Bitches and took over a few new blocks in Eastside Compton. Post-Makaveli MOB is entirely different set than the original MOB from the 1980s, and MOB youngsters still have Pac as their patron saint of sorts. The reality is that while Makaveli was a certified community activist and organizer and was involved directly in the 93 Peace Treaty and the Truce Picnic as well as other mediations, he was also sincerely gang affiliated which was of course his demise. Tupac fell into gang-banging for the same reasons a lot of original Panthers fell into gangs, as a form of penultimate political protest. In some circumstances, folks who are pushed too far by the situation retaliate and get into drug dealing and gang-banging as an alternative life-style. A literal "Fuck your world" and sabotage to the establishment in a truly devastating nihilism. Tupac fell int this surreality. Dead Prez straddle that line. Me, I dig the gangster Tupac mixes, because that is who Tupac was, and it doesn't negate his political or social commentary, if anything it accentuates it with authenticity. I don't think Afeni Shakur could accept that in her idealized remixes which :/
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Old 02.18.2013, 06:09 PM   #92
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is anyone excited about Wolf or any other projects Tyler is releasing? not me. i thought the OF tape 2 was lame. except the last song.

so, who gets down with Usher?
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Old 02.18.2013, 07:03 PM   #93
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i just gave it another listen and it's not that bad tbh. songs with Franky (Analog 2, White and Oldie) are obviously the standouts though. also Tyler and Earl are far better than the other "rappers" in that group.

Usher.. i love Confessions.
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Old 02.18.2013, 07:42 PM   #94
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just out of the blue......"Da art of Storytellin part 1 and 2" is my fav Outkast. just behind the whole ATLiens album.

and We Luv Deez Hoez always cracks me up.

Outkast night like every other night.
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Old 02.18.2013, 09:03 PM   #95
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I'm excited about WOLF, but I wasn't feeling OF Tape 2.

ATLiens is amazing.
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Old 02.18.2013, 09:39 PM   #96
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yeah, really wish these guys would grow up and produce something outstanding. don't care what Tyler says. he's a hipster nerd. i mean, can he really tell any great stories besides his rich swag lifestyle? i don't think so.

he's also on some upcoming Myley Cyrus album. bore, and such a typical ironic downfall.
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Old 02.18.2013, 09:56 PM   #97
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I do want to hear OF (or specifically Tyler, Hodgie & Earl) do something really serious. I think they could blow some minds. Though I still think EARL and BASTARD are super solid records for real.

I can't hate on Miley cuz "Party In The USA" is still catchy as fudge.
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Old 02.18.2013, 09:59 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverasskiss
just out of the blue......"Da art of Storytellin" is my fav Outkast. just behind the whole ATLiens album.

and We Luv Deez Hoez always cracks me up.

Outkast night like every other night.

Do you mean the tracks part I and II from Aquemini or that fly as Rick the Ruler just up outta jail album?

ATLniens has some sick 1990s beats and is a much better evolution from Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik. Aquemini is the last good Outkast album before Dre lost his mind and went too Janelle Mon'ae on us
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Old 02.18.2013, 10:03 PM   #99
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Do you mean the tracks part I and II from Aquemini

yes, both.
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Old 02.18.2013, 10:26 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by noisereductions
I can't hate on Miley cuz "Party In The USA" is still catchy as fudge.

yep, semi agree. catchy but......whatev..yeah
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