[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by jon boy

where are all the 'good guys with guns that stop bad guys with guns'?

Clearly, not a campus library.

[the ikara cult]

Wont be long now before every irresponsible gun owner has identified themselves by shooting a load of people, and then everyone can finally feel safe.

[h8kurdt]

Cue more conspiracy claptrap.

[Rob Instigator]

According to statements by witnesses the shooting was a result of an argument between two people. One of them left the library, and then walked in blasting. shiiiiiit.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Robert, please, stick to Jesus and the science, but when it comes to honestly trying to defend (1) loopholes in background checks which is, DUH, precisely how CRIMINALS get many of their guns, (2) citizens should have access to dangerous assault weapons, what, should we all get the right to own nuclear munitions because the gubment has them, (3) way to try to pull the John Brown card, but no, you fail, and John Brown and his family and militia were killed, and then an insane war followed which I also understand killed a lot more people, most with guns by no coincidence ;(

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

According to statements by witnesses the shooting was a result of an argument between two people.

Generally speaking, isn't how that always works? Of the many people I know who've been shot, and the 8 who've been killed, most were the result of such circumstances.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by jon boy

where are all the 'good guys with guns that stop bad guys with guns'?

Don't know, in Houston seems like the law came in guns blazing and took down the shooter and thankfully didn't hurt anybody else unlike at the Algerian hostage fiasco over the weekend. Meanwhile last week in Central California a kid walks into his classroom and shoots a classmate with a shotgun, the principal and teacher came in and talked him down. Nobody else got shot, nobody got killed, the shooter was apprehended. So who are the heroes exactly?

[Robert Schunk]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Robert, please, stick to Jesus and the science, but when it comes to honestly trying to defend (1) loopholes in background checks which is, DUH, precisely how CRIMINALS get many of their guns, (2) citizens should have access to dangerous assault weapons, what, should we all get the right to own nuclear munitions because the gubment has them, (3) way to try to pull the John Brown card, but no, you fail, and John Brown and his family and militia were killed, and then an insane war followed which I also understand killed a lot more people, most with guns by no coincidence ;(


Generally speaking, isn't how that always works? Of the many people I know who've been shot, and the 8 who've been killed, most were the result of such circumstances.

OK, so where do I start:

1) You're precisely correct on that point. Which is precisely why I, hereby and herewith, advocate on behalf of a law which will forever prevent the hideous criminal offense-to-be of Hoplokleptic Matricide, the draught of which I here propose:

HOPLOKLEPTIC MATRICIDE

Any person who, with intent to cause the death of his/her female immediate ancestor, shall cause such death, for the purpose of unlawfully acquiring any firearm(s) or any other deadly weapon(s) then lawfully owned and possessed by such female immediate ancestor, shall be guilty of hoplokleptic matricide.

***

Had such a law been in force in the State of Connecticut prior to 14 December, 2012, the Newtown Massacre would certainly never have occurred, as the alleged gunman would have had no lawful source by means of which he might have acquired his firearms.

HEY, WAIT A MINUTE!!! MURDERING YOUR MOTHER WAS ILLEGAL ON 14 DECEMBER 2012!!!

So, what really needs to be done is much more radical:

OUTLAW MOTHERHOOD!!!!

*****

The above has, clearly, been a spoof. The following, I promise you, constitute my actual opinions:

2) According to the concept of popular sovereignty, the American people DO, in fact, own the entire arsenal of the American Republic. Why have the American people no choice in how this arsenal is to be used? Why does big business, and their bought-and-paid-for government, enjoy the ability to arrogate to themselves the right to wield hideous weapons for which, not they, but the American people will have to bear responsibility? (Recall that the Bush Administration's jovial disregard of Geneva and Hague Convention safeguards for treatment of prisoners of war, still not disavowed by the Obama Administration, renders the United States bereft of legal standing concerning the treatment of her own sons and daughters should they be captured in whatever war the business interests currently controlling the US government will cook up next.)

3) PULLING THE JOHN BROWN CARD???? THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT!!!

 

ARM THE SLAVES!!!!

ARM THE SLAVES!!!!

[Bytor Peltor]

Originally Posted by Robert Schunk

If Bytor can't tell you what's wrong with all of that, I beleive I can.

Robert - it's not that I can't, but I often find it's a waste of my time.

Gun ownership is something that is and has always been. SuchFriends and others are talking about change and I don't see that sort of change coming without a massive fight. Several pages back, I shared my view about AR's and 30 round clips. Personally, I would probably vote against them.

America will never be given the opportunity to vote on these two things.

Our President is attempting to change the current laws. He is attempting to do so without giving the American population the opportunity to vote. Citizens of America and States in America are angry about this and will do all they can to fight it. More importantly, they have the money and power to do so......or at least drag it out. Pundits say that if our President doesn't get anything done within the first 3-4 months of his new term, he will slip into lame douche mode.

If this does happen, I look for our President to try and add an additional five trillion dollars to our deficit as he did in his first term......all the while never having a balanced budget.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

 

 

[Bytor Peltor]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

 

Now, look who needs to grow up.

[Rob Instigator]

Do not forget they are all in it together. They are all millionaires looking to maintain the status quo.
Preznit Bush started the whole massive debt by beginning two wars, funded at the rate of billions a week, that have lasted well over a decade now.
The same people making money off of the war are still making billions, and they all have a much bigger piece of any president's ear than the 40+ million living in poverty.

[Bytor Peltor]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Do not forget they are all in it together. They are all millionaires looking to maintain the status quo.
Preznit Bush started the whole massive debt by beginning two wars, funded at the rate of billions a week, that have lasted well over a decade now.
The same people making money off of the war are still making billions, and they all have a much bigger piece of any president's ear than the 40+ million living in poverty.

So true, Rob.

When running for election the first time, I feel it was foolish for Obama to campaign on bringing the troops home. Like many Americans, I was ready to see many of them come home. However, what we citizens nor Obama at that time knew was there were / still are many necessities having our military people in places they now occupy.

Once Obama became President and received a full briefing on how all the dots were connected, it became obvious to him at that time in no way could he just remove everyone. YES - some of the dots are connected to companies making millions of dollars, but it's unreasonable to think it's the ONLY REASON Bush kept our soldiers over there.

For the five trillion Obama has added to the deficit over the past four years, we could fund occupations for the remainder of our lifetime.

[Rob Instigator]

Keeping a force in afghanistan equivalent to the one in South Korea is fine and dandy. what happens is that the USA has spent nearly half of the money on these wars in hiring out mercenary/"private security" firms. No one makes money when the army is sent somewhere, only in purchasing equipment for them, but sending a private mercenary company over makes a lot of money for those that own such operations. and that is government money, given with no accountability, no questions asked, and a private mercenary does not have to follow rules of war that a soldier has to. it skirts around the law very nicely.

[floatingslowly]

I've been offerred to go shoot off an AR15, and I believe I might. God knows when I'll ever see one again...

[tesla69]

KTLA-TV reported on Wednesday that the Fontana Unified School District bought 14 Colt 6940 rifles at $1,000 apiece to store on campuses around the district. The semi-automatic weapons are used by both law enforcement and U.S. Special Forces.
The purchase was approved by district Superintendent Cali Olsen-Binks last October. According to the Fontana Herald News, school officers received the weapons last month and received 40 hours of training over the winter break to learn how to use them.
Officials said the rifles will be stored in a safe on their respective campuses and will only be used to respond to attacks like the one on Sandy Hook Elementary in Connecticut last month.
“We know that criminals wear bullet proof vests,” School Police Chief Billy Green told the newspaper. “Our guns are not able to penetrate these vests from long distance, so we need shoulder weapons to defend innocent people. This is a decision I made and I have no regrets.”

http://1.rp-api.com/4090715/via.pngRaw Story (http://s.tt/1yQr0)

[Bytor Peltor]

 

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor

Now, look who needs to grow up.

Dudes, y'all gun folks are not compromising. Nothing in the Second Amendment says that Americans have the right to bear ANY, EVERY, and ALL kinds of arms. So we have flesh out the details and interpret the law appropriately. We American people largely support regulating firearms. Nobody is talking about banning ALL firearms, but even a small child can understand why prohibiting uber-dangerous military style weapons is a reasonable compromise. Gun owners can still have access to many firearms, just not those which are only designed to harm as many people as possible in as short a time as possible.

Further, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH 100% BACKGROUND CHECKS FOR ALL PURCHASES?

These are reasonable compromises where Americans can still express their Second Amendment rights while the rest of us Americans who prefer not can equally feel safe and secure in our neighborhoods and communities. That is the mutual compromise, those of us who feel unsafe around firearms have the right to push for control, licensing, and regulation in the name of public safety, and those who want to express their rights and own firearms accept some regulation and restriction. How is that not simple?

What is funny is y'all accuse us of not listening to y'all, and yet we are listening, and we are supporting gun ownership (albeit under restrictions), it is y'all who are not listening to our concerns

[Rob Instigator]

I think every citizen should be required to learn how to properly care for and handle and fire a firearm. I personally do not own one, and have reservations about allowing it in my house (I ask my friends with Concealed handgun licenses to please leave their handguns in their cars,a nd they willingly do so.)
but I would kill and be killed for your right to own one.

I believe in states rights. Each community needs to dictate what is right for them. federal drug laws are all jacked up, and so will federal gun regulations.

criminals do not, by definition, give a flying fuck about the law, and will find ways to get assault rifles and other high ordinance whether or not the law abiding citizens are allowed to have such things.

Most gun owners are very responsible. Most drivers are very responsible. A certain amount of risk comes with being alive, and with all things in life.

[Rob Instigator]

BTW, some of the most well-armed and trained gun owners in America are descendants and family of Jews who survived or escaped the Nazi Holocaust. They did not have guns when Hitlers assholes came for them, because Hitler mandated the general populace be disarmed.

This is not a bullshit scare tactic by those who bring it up. It is historical evidence.

Everyone brings up the lack of guns in Japan, but that has not stopped the HIGH rates of suicide, or violent crime by Yakuza or other criminals. Everyone mentions the UK, but FUCK THAT SHIT. They are slowly becoming a totalitarian state, where everyone is filmed everywhere they go, where you have to pay and get a license to watch television, where only the government and their stooges have weapons.

The violent crime rate in the UK is HUGE

Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries.
The figures comes on the day new Home Secretary Alan Johnson makes his first major speech on crime, promising to be tough on loutish behaviour. . . .
The figures, compiled from reports released by the European Commission and United Nations, also show:

• The UK has the second highest overall crime rate in the EU.

• It has a higher homicide rate than most of our western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain.

• The UK has the fifth highest robbery rate in the EU.

• It has the fourth highest burglary rate and the highest absolute number of burglaries in the EU, with double the number of offences than recorded in Germany and France. . . .

In the UK, there are 2,034 offences per 100,000 people, way ahead of second-placed Austria with a rate of 1,677. . . .

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

I think every citizen should be required to learn how to properly care for and handle and fire a firearm. I personally do not own one, and have reservations about allowing it in my house (I ask my friends with Concealed handgun licenses to please leave their handguns in their cars,a nd they willingly do so.)
but I would kill and be killed for your right to own one.

I believe in states rights. Each community needs to dictate what is right for them. federal drug laws are all jacked up, and so will federal gun regulations.

criminals do not, by definition, give a flying fuck about the law, and will find ways to get assault rifles and other high ordinance whether or not the law abiding citizens are allowed to have such things.

Most gun owners are very responsible. Most drivers are very responsible. A certain amount of risk comes with being alive, and with all things in life.

Rob, this is an endlessly circular argument. Criminals get their weapons FROM THE EXACT SAME PLACE THAT HONEST PEOPLE GET THEM, the gun manufacturers. If the gun manufacturers STOP producing and SELLING these kinds of weapons in America, then Americans criminal, legit, or otherwise will gradually lose access. We have to stop the flow sometime, we can't always just throw up our hands and let criminals dictate the roles and rules of our society. Further I can vouch from tangible experience, that assault rifle bans worked in California, in the 1990s gangsters had common access to assault rifles, people getting shot by high volume rifles was a weekly occurrence. The LAPD and Sheriff reported annually large numbers of confiscation by apprehended criminals carrying dangerous riffles, submachine guns and of course dangerous high-velocity ammunition. SINCE California by STATE law banned ALL these weapons and munitions, both the hood news on the streetcorner and the data by the police agencies all affirm and conclude that criminals now have dramatically LESS access to assault rifles and high-velocity ammunition. See how that works? Once we get over the entire fear-mongering aspects, we can look at the data, and see that regulation has measurable results!!


Further, NOBODY HAS ANSWERED MY QUESTION. WHAT THE FUCK IS SO WRONG WITH UNIVERSAL, 100% BACKGROUND CHECKS FOR ALL FIREARM PURCHASES IN AMERICA AND ALL 50 STATES?