[Severian]

Originally Posted by foreverasskiss

ever tried listening to Watery Domestic? you can't go wrong with "Texas Never Whispers" or "Frontwards".....or the whole damn EP for that matter. granted, i don't listen to them like i use to, but that's the one a grab to refresh my pave memory. oh, and "Fillmore Jive" always melts like the finest butter. Crooked Rain Crooked Rain.<3

i get the feelin i'm just pissin in the wind though. am i right?

No, you're absolutely right. I haven't been a fervent Pavement fan in years and years, but I also don't give a shit if the current trend among elitists is to act like they weren't a great band.

Genteel, I see very little actual elitism or in-group trend hopping and judgment passing on this board from anyone other than you. You go out of your way to say things that reveal you to be a perfect example of the kinds of hypothetical people you complain about.

This board is chiefly occupied by adults, it seems. Why do you assume there are so many people here who are still motivated by the adolescent compulsion to only like what they feel they should like? You seem to think in these terms more than anyone.

[evollove]

If Pavement was a great band, why don't you like them anymore?

QED

[Severian]

I do. I don't listen to them as often as I did, but I still like them.

[foreverasskiss]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Don't bother. You seem like a fine conoisseur of hip hop. No need to waste time on this crap.

ps: EL-P's new album is indeed excellent.

edit - @louder

lol. that's funny, because not too long ago you were calling him an idiot. "conoisseur of hip hop"...i've said this about louder from the beginning. make up your mind and get your head out your ass.

you've done the same to me, cakes, and e noisefield.

[foreverasskiss]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

White Stripes were the first band I saw live. They were OK. At the time I felt they were better live than on record...I still think this is mostly true.

And Pavement always sucked, period.

ann ashtray on check as always. they were great live:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsnIdx8JSBY.


again, i couldn't give a shite about this band but they did have some rockin songs. that goes a long ways instead of all that arty farty bullshit. BLEH!!!!

edit

[Murmer99]

only enjoyed their debut, and I hardly listen to it anymore. Fun band but nothing that has ever blown me away.

and Pavement does kind of suck.... albeit slanted and enchanted is a decent record.

not sure how a pavement argument even got started in this thread.

[ann ashtray]

Originally Posted by evollove

Totally agree. A. Ashtray has expressed a dislike for meaningful lyrics, so I thought she'd find Malkamus' lyrics a fine antidote. That's all I meant.

I, myself, feel that he has NOTHING to say to the world. However amusing or clever the stuff was at first, after years of gibberish I've concluded that he's just a shallow man.

Fuck, where were you when I brought this up on a much earlier thread and took a ton of shit?

No type of lyrics, weird or otherwise, can ever fix terrible music. The only reason I prefer nonsensical lyrics is because I tend to not enjoy songs as much when they are obviously about something in particular.

Again, there are those lyrics that mean something to me. It's just rare.

[ann ashtray]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

I'll go as far as saying that Sonic Youth's association with Pavement has been an incentive for their attracting the sort of ''Should I like this or not'' indie wuss we see on this forum so often to their fanbase. Fragile little creatures that are so easily devastated by one's display of confidence it makes them question how helpful the hours spent on Pitchfork and mediafire have been for their psyche. You just have to read or look at Stephen Malkmus' interviews in his heyday to see what I mean.

This is something I was irritated about a few years ago. I remember feeling (and certainly it's a thing that does exist) that a certain demographic of SY fan tends to lean toward whatever other bands are somehow associated w/ the Youth. Not uncommon on any level to come across someone who listens to little else outside of the Dinosaur, Pavement, SY camp etc...despite whatever their age may be. This is no longer anything I find irritating. I just don't care.

[Murmer99]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

No type of lyrics, weird or otherwise, can ever fix terrible music. The only reason I prefer nonsensical lyrics is because I tend to not enjoy songs as much when they are obviously about something in particular.

Again, there are those lyrics that mean something to me. It's just rare.

sometimes I'm confused by what you say. I can't tell whether lyrics mean something to you or not. Sometimes I'm under the impression that if lyrics are blatantly trying to send a "message" that this will merely turn you off from the sound of the music. I wonder if one completely kills the other for you, that's all.

Personally, I find the two to be inseparable once the material is finished. Then I judge it based on the whole. I can easily be captivated by a song with "deep meaning" in the way it's written, just as much as the sound it's connected to.

I can't really say that I've seen many pavement fans on here implying in any way that they're fans because of the association with SY, but I don't care much about the similarities/contrasts between my tastes and others. Sure there are people who cannot make many decisions for themselves, but it doesn't seem like that is ever going to change. It's getting worked up over something that is probably a waste of time.

[ann ashtray]

Originally Posted by Murmer99

sometimes I'm confused by what you say. I can't tell whether lyrics mean something to you or not. Sometimes I'm under the impression that if lyrics are blatantly trying to send a "message" that this will merely turn you off from the sound of the music. I wonder if one completely kills the other for you, that's all.

Personally, I find the two to be inseparable once the material is finished. Then I judge it based on the whole. I can easily be captivated by a song with "deep meaning" in the way it's written, just as much as the sound it's connected to.

I can't really say that I've seen many pavement fans on here implying in any way that they're fans because of the association with SY, but I don't care much about the similarities/contrasts between my tastes and others. Sure there are people who cannot make many decisions for themselves, but it doesn't seem like that is ever going to change. It's getting worked up over something that is probably a waste of time.

If the objective of the music is the message, immediate turnoff. This isn't to say that there's never been a number of songs like this that I do enjoy (assuming the alternative would just be crazy), but it's rare. I don't tend to enjoy meaningful, heartfelt, thought provoking lyrics.

[SONIC GAIL]

Jack White on my opinion is a wonderful mucisian. He is very adaptable.

[Pookie]

Rare clip of Jack White's first band.

[Murmer99]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

If the objective of the music is the message, immediate turnoff. This isn't to say that there's never been a number of songs like this that I do enjoy (assuming the alternative would just be crazy), but it's rare. I don't tend to enjoy meaningful, heartfelt, thought provoking lyrics.

Well, I guess all I'm saying is that if the music is great and the lyrics are "thought provoking" or meaningful, heartfelt whatever... it can be a bonus for me. It definitely shouldn't be the focal point at all, but if it's done right... I don't see how it could harm the material. I suppose this is what you're implying though.

[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by Murmer99

It definitely shouldn't be the focal point at all

Can't be bothered to reply to that twat who called me etilist on the post above (that's how incredibly etilist I am), but here's an example of maturity on this forum when it comes to music for you.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

Can't be bothered to reply to that twat who called me etilist on the post above (that's how incredibly etilist I am), but here's an example of maturity on this forum when it comes to music for you.

See Genteel's post about the "should I like this or not Indie wusses" of SYG for more on the topic of music and "maturity."

[foreverasskiss]

i never got into pave because of their association with SY. never even knew they toured with 'em. of course this was before i had the internet to find out such. i knew they loved Dinosaur Jr.

when i think of SY i think of a lot of 80's bands. SST stuff. maybe riot grrl or no wave. Velvets and The Stooges, but not Pavement.

tell you the truth, SY didn't become my favorite band untill i was 23. long after my Pavement phase blew over.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by foreverasskiss

i never got into pave because of their association with SY. never even knew they toured with 'em. of course this was before i had the internet to find out such. i knew they loved Dinosaur Jr.

when i think of SY i think of a lot of 80's bands. SST stuff. maybe riot grrl or no wave. Velvets and The Stooges, but not Pavement.

tell you the truth, SY didn't become my favorite band untill i was 23. long after my Pavement phase blew over.

I guess I don't really understand the association. To me, they represent entirely different styles and eras. I don't see it. Nor do I see an overwhelming population of the "should I like this or not" types on SYG. I think the forum members deserve a little more credit than that.

[ann ashtray]

Originally Posted by Severian

I guess I don't really understand the association. To me, they represent entirely different styles and eras. I don't see it. Nor do I see an overwhelming population of the "should I like this or not" types on SYG. I think the forum members deserve a little more credit than that.

Well in all fairness, almost any musical movement over the past 30 years worth mentioning, Sonic Youth were involved in one way or another. They've always been cool about promoting anything they find interesting...whether it be Lydia, Government Issue, Nirvana, or Wolf Eyes.

[Severian]

Originally Posted by ann ashtray

Well in all fairness, almost any musical movement over the past 30 years worth mentioning, Sonic Youth were involved in one way or another. They've always been cool about promoting anything they find interesting...whether it be Lydia, Government Issue, Nirvana, or Wolf Eyes.

That's not what he is talking shout. He's talking about the kind of suoerficial insecurity experienced by people who want to be part of some perceives musical "iin" crowd. A desire to "like" only artists that are pr-approved by the scene.

It's a common enough practice, and a phase many for through, but I think most SYG users outgrew that behavior in adolescence, and I see no evidence to support categorizing SYG users like that. Like I said, we are, for the most part, adults. Assuming we like what we like only because we think we should is pretty goddamn insulting.

I don't think the issue has much to do with what you're talking about, but of course you're right. Bands do indeed hype other bands, but Genteel is referring to people who decide what they like and dislike based on their perception of the rules and mores of the scene they want to be asaociated with.

I just don't see a lot of that kind of behavior here, and I see it as an inaccurate generalization.

[Severian]

In other words, Genteel dislikes the entire "music taste = status" thing. But at the same time he is establishing his own hierarchy of status by passing judgement on others based on their taste in music.

So the only status whore in the forum is complaining that the rest of us seek status through music. It's pretty absurd.