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Old 07.01.2011, 04:53 PM   #21
Robert Schunk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
Thanks. Yeah, when I said America I was pretty much thinking of New York. But then there's the whole Black Mountain College thing so I didn't want to ignore that. Equally, the entire European avant-garde could for the most part be reduced to a few key cities.

But the big question remains unanswered: is 'Rhapsody in Blue' a piece of modern classical music?

I say yes. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that all of Modern and Progressive Jazz is also Modern Classical.

And let's not forget Scott Joplin!
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Old 07.01.2011, 04:53 PM   #22
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And I'll also mention Janáček and recommend String Quartets 1 & 2.
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Old 07.01.2011, 04:57 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by demonrail666
But the big question remains unanswered: is 'Rhapsody in Blue' a piece of modern classical music?
Well Naxos have released a version so I guess it must be.
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Old 07.01.2011, 05:07 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Schunk
I forgot to provide an example of Charles Ives' music.

Here's a (very) brief introduction:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cro8xaVy5E


Ah, you may have solved a mystery that's been plaguing me for ages. I read something about a composer who's name I could never remember and could never find any way of finding out, just by saying "He's American, meant to be great, into the American landscape". And I think that might be him. Finally!


Quote:
Originally Posted by fugazifan
a lot of, if not most of the major jewish (and non jewish as well) cultural figures in europe, namely vienna moved to los angeles. sp there was a period where schoenberg and adorno, stravinsky and many more were hanging there. so i think that influenced a lot of what was going on in the states and also moved the cultural focus to that side of the world for a bit.

Great point! A number of some of Europe's most interesting experimental filmmakers also moved there - largely to be as close as possible to Hollywood - but out of that came a really interesting west coast avant-garde film scene. I've got a real fetish for West Coast pop art and it's amazing how even now, even in the US, so little is written about it. So yeah, absolutely, there's a definite tendency to over-emphasise NY's role in it all.
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Old 07.01.2011, 05:09 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookie
Well Naxos have released a version so I guess it must be.

Yeah, but is it a modern classical piece?

EDIT: Where did your avatar go?!? It was amazing.
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Old 07.01.2011, 05:12 PM   #26
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It was written in 1924 and your definition of modern is "anything from the 20th Century onwards."
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Old 07.01.2011, 05:15 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookie
It was written in 1924 and your definition of modern is "anything from the 20th Century onwards."

My definition of "Modern" begins with the 1890's.
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Old 07.01.2011, 05:18 PM   #28
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naxos does not only release modern music.

and gershwin is definitely modern classical. he took sounds and genres that were foreign to western art music and incorporated them into it.
that sounds pretty modern to me (not that classical and romantic composers didnt incorporate popular and folk music into their pieces) but gershwin incorporated the sounds of modern society, in the sense of the bustling cities and street sweepers, and making an opera out of jazz music.
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Old 07.01.2011, 05:20 PM   #29
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My Naxos comment was a joke and yes she is pretty amazing isn't she?
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Old 07.01.2011, 05:21 PM   #30
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Demonrail666:

I'm glad I helped you find the identity of your mystery composer. Charles Ives was also a partner in a New York City insurance firm. Does that help?
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Old 07.01.2011, 05:22 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookie
My Naxos comment was a joke and yes she is pretty amazing isn't she?


as was my reply. and yes, she is.
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Old 07.01.2011, 05:26 PM   #32
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mine wasn't, that completely went over my head.
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Old 07.01.2011, 05:28 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Schunk
Demonrail666:

I'm glad I helped you find the identity of your mystery composer. Charles Ives was also a partner in a New York City insurance firm. Does that help?

Thanks, but I just wiki'd him and ... he's not the one. my quest goes on. (I'm actually beginning to wonder if I just imagined him.)
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Old 07.01.2011, 05:37 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fugazifan
gershwin is definitely modern classical. he took sounds and genres that were foreign to western art music and incorporated them into it.
that sounds pretty modern to me (not that classical and romantic composers didnt incorporate popular and folk music into their pieces) but gershwin incorporated the sounds of modern society, in the sense of the bustling cities and street sweepers, and making an opera out of jazz music.

That definitely settles it, for sure.
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Old 07.01.2011, 05:39 PM   #35
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Sorry I didn't help you find your mystery composer.

As a consolation prize, here's the New York Philharmonic (James Levine conducting) performing Aaron Copeland's "Fanfare for the Common Man". The video quality is poor, but the sound quality is fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzf0rvQa4Mc
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Old 07.01.2011, 05:42 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fugazifan
and gershwin is definitely modern classical. he took sounds and genres that were foreign to western art music and incorporated them into it.
that sounds pretty modern to me (not that classical and romantic composers didnt incorporate popular and folk music into their pieces) but gershwin incorporated the sounds of modern society, in the sense of the bustling cities and street sweepers, and making an opera out of jazz music.

That definitely is an excellent statement of our case.

Bravo. Maestro!!!
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Old 07.01.2011, 05:48 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Schunk
Sorry I didn't help you find your mystery composer.

As a consolation prize, here's the New York Philharmonic (James Levine conducting) performing Aaron Copeland's "Fanfare for the Common Man". The video quality is poor, but the sound quality is fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzf0rvQa4Mc


See, Aaron Copeland (who I like) is the one who people always suggest as the mystery composer. He's American, generally considered good and into the American landscape. He fits perfectly. It probably even is him. So thanks again, albeit with slightly less euphoria than before.
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Old 07.01.2011, 05:53 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
See, Aaron Copeland (who I like) is the one who people always suggest as the mystery composer. He's American, generally considered good and into the American landscape. He fits perfectly. It probably even is him. So thanks again, albeit with slightly less euphoria than before.

Glad to have been of help (if not, at least I tried!).
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Old 07.01.2011, 06:07 PM   #39
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Well you helped me realise this composer I'd been looking for probably never existed to begin with. So definite thanks for that, if just for the effort it'll save me in not looking for him anymore.
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Old 07.01.2011, 06:19 PM   #40
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One very influential book (and the reason I consider certain varieties of Jazz to be Classical music) is "The Agony of Modern Music" by Henry Pleasants. I agree with his characterization of certain forms of Jazz as Classical music, but he makes his claim from the standpoint of hating more generally accepted forms of Modern Classical music (which I obviously love).
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