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Old 01.22.2018, 11:28 AM   #4901
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Severian
I thought we all knew Lovecraft was a disturbingly racist fuck... right?

I mean, “negro” and similar language about skin tone comes up in even his most popular writing.

But, Jesus, it was the 1930s. I can say with confidence that the writing (ideas) are awesome while knowing the author was a bigoted fuck just like roughly 33 percent of Americans today, and not feel bad about deriving pleasure from his stories.

Is that shitty of me? I mean, John Lennon put the N-word in a song title. Granted, it was a political statement from a much more progressive and evolved human specimen (though still terribly flawed).

Shit, am I a racism-apologist?

nah man, you’re just a nazi-lover

but no, seriously, it’s somewhat separable. i don’t buy the puritan credo of moral absolutism that leads to witch burnings. i’m jesuitic in my moral reasoning i guess. i see a lot of grey areas in human life and accept many failings and contradictions and try to see the good in the shit.

but he still sucks ha ha ha ha ha. yeah.
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Old 01.22.2018, 11:59 AM   #4902
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a beautiful sculpture is a beautiful sculpture regardless of the faults/beliefs/agenda/ignorance of the sculptor

the same goes for all works of art.

Literature is harder to accept as pure art because words are LOADED with semantic variation, causing people to apply the writer's own personality to the work being created, but it should still be viewed as pure art.
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Old 01.22.2018, 12:20 PM   #4903
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Originally Posted by ilduclo
Thanks for that demon, I'll mention it to my friend...maybe he'll change his tattoo? But not to Woodrow, who was equally bad... Fuck, speaking of rehab of racist asshats, how's about the new Winston C fluffing picture!

Get to fuck.

The story isn't about Churchill the anti-NHS, anti-welfare conservative dick. The story is about what happened, and what he did during WWII, and for that he was absolutely the right person for it. That leads to the film.

I remember a few years ago there was a massive poll done by the BBC about to find "the greatest Britain". Now, ignoring how ridiculous it is to ask something like that, Churchill came top of the poll. At the time I was baffled. It was too many people ignoring what he did outside of the war and going straight to flag waving patriotism. When it's something like that it's right to question him and who he was as a person. However, it can't be denied what he did for Britain during the war was very much for the benefit.
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Old 01.22.2018, 12:46 PM   #4904
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Originally Posted by !@#$%!
nah man, you’re just a nazi-lover

but no, seriously, it’s somewhat separable. i don’t buy the puritan credo of moral absolutism that leads to witch burnings. i’m jesuitic in my moral reasoning i guess. i see a lot of grey areas in human life and accept many failings and contradictions and try to see the good in the shit.

but he still sucks ha ha ha ha ha. yeah.

Thanks. I guess I see it things the same way (for the *most* part, not always — for instance, that rapper who kidnapped his girlfriend and raped her and tortured her and held her hostage? Yeah, fuck that cunt. Even if his music was good I wouldn’t listen) ... but I appreciate your use of the word Jesuitic, as I think it’s definitely a good word for it, and one I can understand.

Anyhoo, as a scientifically-minded, journalistically-inclined reader, I have some problems with Lovecraft’s studied “style” or lack thereof — a conflagration of what he perceived to be academic, journalistic and philosophical, though I think he had only a fleeting grasp of what any of those styles actually looked like when done *well.*

He’s kinda like a Don Draper (sorry, still addicted to Mad Men, almost done with it tho!) ... an legitimately brilliant “idea man” with only a child’s understanding of the very things he aspired to be, and eventually became.

I still think it’s far from bad writing, but I have my beefs, to be sure. And he got better over time too.

But yeah ... racist fuck, for suresies.
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Old 01.22.2018, 03:57 PM   #4905
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forget the word “negro” for a moment which even mlk and malcolm x used. just tell me what happened here? ‘in your own words,” as they say:

The professor had been stricken whilst returning from the Newport boat; falling suddenly, as witnesses said, after having been jostled by a nautical-looking negro who had come from one of the queer dark courts on the precipitous hillside which formed a short cut from the waterfront to the deceased’s home in Williams Street.
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Old 01.22.2018, 04:08 PM   #4906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
forget the word “negro” for a moment which even mlk and malcolm x used. just tell me what happened here? ‘in your own words,” as they say:

The professor had been stricken whilst returning from the Newport boat; falling suddenly, as witnesses said, after having been jostled by a nautical-looking negro who had come from one of the queer dark courts on the precipitous hillside which formed a short cut from the waterfront to the deceased’s home in Williams Street.

Dude was shoved down a hill (seriously). Keep reading.
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Old 01.22.2018, 04:43 PM   #4907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
forget the word “negro” for a moment which even mlk and malcolm x used. just tell me what happened here? ‘in your own words,” as they say:

The professor had been stricken whilst returning from the Newport boat; falling suddenly, as witnesses said, after having been jostled by a nautical-looking negro who had come from one of the queer dark courts on the precipitous hillside which formed a short cut from the waterfront to the deceased’s home in Williams Street.

homecheese was walking home, was jostled by a black sailor (probably from Ivory Coast) who had come from the shanties.
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Old 01.22.2018, 05:31 PM   #4908
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Originally Posted by Severian
Dude was shoved down a hill (seriously). Keep reading.

he makes it difficult. seriously. my eyes glaze over this shit.

i went over to the stupid clay tablet and the inspector and the professor and the “esquimaux”

life is too short for reading to be a painful chore. like eating a shit sandwich

 


yes yes obvious surprise the monster is gonna be real. no fuckin kidding. wings and tentacles. oooooo.

im much more afraid of dioxins

jeeezus there were so many great writers in the 20s why waste time with this jumbled garbage. i’ll read the clifff notes and be done. if someone offered to pay me to continue i’d turn down the job.

you wanna read something good go read ubu roi. it’s from 189fucking6 and way ahead of its time, not backwards.
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Old 01.22.2018, 05:44 PM   #4909
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Originally Posted by Rob Instigator
homecheese was walking home, was jostled by a black sailor (probably from Ivory Coast) who had come from the shanties.
much more readable than that trash

precipitous hillside where my huevos
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Old 01.22.2018, 06:36 PM   #4910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
he makes it difficult. seriously. my eyes glaze over this shit.

i went over to the stupid clay tablet and the inspector and the professor and the “esquimaux”

life is too short for reading to be a painful chore. like eating a shit sandwich

 


yes yes obvious surprise the monster is gonna be real. no fuckin kidding. wings and tentacles. oooooo.

im much more afraid of dioxins

jeeezus there were so many great writers in the 20s why waste time with this jumbled garbage. i’ll read the clifff notes and be done. if someone offered to pay me to continue i’d turn down the job.

you wanna read something good go read ubu roi. it’s from 189fucking6 and way ahead of its time, not backwards.

Dude, fair enough, but his stories are the bedrock of an entire genre. For better or worse, dude was inventive as fuck.

There are some anthologies out there where other, better authors like Neil Gaiman and... I dunno, some others... write ABOUT Lovecraft characters, or in a Lovecraftian style. I haven’t read any of them, but maybe they’d be cool.
Gaiman is one of my favorites, and he’s taken Lovecraft’s love of made-up mythologies and pushed it into a more dynamic direction, where it’s not really Horror or even fantasy anymore, but something akin to (very) adult fairy tales, rooted in real mythologies, be they Celtcic, Norse or what have you.

Anyhoodle...
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Old 01.22.2018, 07:01 PM   #4911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h8kurdt
Get to fuck.

The story isn't about Churchill the anti-NHS, anti-welfare conservative dick. The story is about what happened, and what he did during WWII, and for that he was absolutely the right person for it. That leads to the film.

I remember a few years ago there was a massive poll done by the BBC about to find "the greatest Britain". Now, ignoring how ridiculous it is to ask something like that, Churchill came top of the poll. At the time I was baffled. It was too many people ignoring what he did outside of the war and going straight to flag waving patriotism. When it's something like that it's right to question him and who he was as a person. However, it can't be denied what he did for Britain during the war was very much for the benefit.

I remember that poll and felt the same as you when the result came in (I think I backed Brunel at the time) but I agree that, at possibly the most critical time in the Country's history, at leat in the modern era, he came into his own in a way I'm not sure anyone else would have.
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Old 01.22.2018, 07:21 PM   #4912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Severian
Dude, fair enough, but his stories are the bedrock of an entire genre. For better or worse, dude was inventive as fuck.

There are some anthologies out there where other, better authors like Neil Gaiman and... I dunno, some others... write ABOUT Lovecraft characters, or in a Lovecraftian style. I haven’t read any of them, but maybe they’d be cool.
Gaiman is one of my favorites, and he’s taken Lovecraft’s love of made-up mythologies and pushed it into a more dynamic direction, where it’s not really Horror or even fantasy anymore, but something akin to (very) adult fairy tales, rooted in real mythologies, be they Celtcic, Norse or what have you.

Anyhoodle...

what’s so inventive about “cyclopean” this or that? inventive were the people who came up with the cyclops.

anyway, sure, the aggregated mythology: i got it already when demoño explained it.

this is why i said i’ll read the cliff notes: to get the mythology without paying the troll toll.

but no fucking way i’m eating the shit sandwich.



ETA: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu_Mythos plus links
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Old 01.22.2018, 07:29 PM   #4913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Severian
Dude, fair enough, but his stories are the bedrock of an entire genre. For better or worse, dude was inventive as fuck.

There are some anthologies out there where other, better authors like Neil Gaiman and... I dunno, some others... write ABOUT Lovecraft characters, or in a Lovecraftian style. I haven’t read any of them, but maybe they’d be cool.
Gaiman is one of my favorites, and he’s taken Lovecraft’s love of made-up mythologies and pushed it into a more dynamic direction, where it’s not really Horror or even fantasy anymore, but something akin to (very) adult fairy tales, rooted in real mythologies, be they Celtcic, Norse or what have you.

Anyhoodle...

Those anthologies are obviously hit and miss but the better ones are excellent. Certainly not just fan-fiction.

If you want to sample one, Dead But Dreaming edited by Kevin Ross has some great stories.

If you want to try a single authored collection that's clearly Lovecraftian (without necessarily making direct references to the mythos) Thomas Ligotti's Songs of a Dead Dreamer/Grimscribe has some of the best horror writing I think I've ever read, period.

 
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Old 01.22.2018, 07:44 PM   #4914
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I think I read Pet Semetary in grade school because I liked the movie, but I'm too much of a snob to know what you guys are talking about.

But I'm curious: does horror really scare? I mean, are there really stories/novels that actually freak you out as much as a movie can?

I remember In Cold Blood scaring me when I read it in high school, so I know the written word can provoke fear, but I think Capote's book is far removed from the current discussion.
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Old 01.22.2018, 08:01 PM   #4915
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Originally Posted by evollove
I think I read Pet Semetary in grade school because I liked the movie, but I'm too much of a snob to know what you guys are talking about.

But I'm curious: does horror really scare? I mean, are there really stories/novels that actually freak you out as much as a movie can?

I remember In Cold Blood scaring me when I read it in high school, so I know the written word can provoke fear, but I think Capote's book is far removed from the current discussion.
right? im scared about the possibility of a pair of real killers arriving to my doorstep. giant tentacles make me laugh.

and then theres dioxins. fucking dioxins everywhere

did you know that in england 80% of the population live within a couple of miles of a landfill?

now that would fucking frighten me if i were english

me, i have other problems, like living in a radioactive state where the baseball team is called “the isotopes”

im also scared of our real life ubu roi. the play is hilarious though.
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Old 01.22.2018, 08:11 PM   #4916
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Well, I didn't mean to disparage anyone who is scared by giant tentacles. I was just genuinely and non-judgmentally curious to know if that was really possible.
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Old 01.22.2018, 08:37 PM   #4917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
Those anthologies are obviously hit and miss but the better ones are excellent. Certainly not just fan-fiction.

If you want to sample one, Dead But Dreaming edited by Kevin Ross has some great stories.

If you want to try a single authored collection that's clearly Lovecraftian (without necessarily making direct references to the mythos) Thomas Ligotti's Songs of a Dead Dreamer/Grimscribe has some of the best horror writing I think I've ever read, period.

 
i might look at this one day
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Old 01.22.2018, 08:43 PM   #4918
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Originally Posted by evollove
Well, I didn't mean to disparage anyone who is scared by giant tentacles. I was just genuinely and non-judgmentally curious to know if that was really possible.
yeah i didn’t mean it disparaginly but maybe i was feeling a little salty after trying to read that piece of shit. it really made me fucking angry, like the music they play at the supermarket.

i can get scared by giant tentacles provided a physical stimulus, like with a movie where the surprise comes through the senses. then concept alone does not scare me. but the concept of a real life killer showing up at my house does— this is why i keep actual weapons.

this is the thing, i guess— good writing makes you hallucinate, bad writing is pins and needles in the eyes. vague words and inadequate syntax give me a headache.

maybe if someone could make me hallucinate the giant tentacles i would get scared. but the dead white longfaced shitbird with the clunky prose doesn’t. someone else might though.

oh i remember reading interview with the vampire ages ago. i wasn’t scared of vampires themselves, but i read it cover to cover in a hurry regardless cuz it was kinda thrilling.
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Old 01.22.2018, 09:55 PM   #4919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
Those anthologies are obviously hit and miss but the better ones are excellent. Certainly not just fan-fiction.

If you want to sample one, Dead But Dreaming edited by Kevin Ross has some great stories.

If you want to try a single authored collection that's clearly Lovecraftian (without necessarily making direct references to the mythos) Thomas Ligotti's Songs of a Dead Dreamer/Grimscribe has some of the best horror writing I think I've ever read, period.

 

Yes, we’ve talked about this before right? The Yellow King and whatnot? I actually thought he was pre-Lovecraft... ? Or am I just confused because his stories hop around in Time a bit?

Hmm... I remember finding free — apparently public domain — writings from some author you recommended online, and reading with the intention of learning more about the inspiration behind the (still unbelievable) True Detective season 1 (what with the Yellow King and all).

Huh.
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Old 01.22.2018, 10:01 PM   #4920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Severian
Hmm... I remember finding free — apparently public domain — writings from some author you recommended online, and reading with the intention of learning more about the inspiration behind the (still unbelievable) True Detective season 1 (what with the Yellow King and all).

Huh.

ambrose bierce was the first one to come up with carcosa. then one robert chambers and lovecraft himself ripped off the name. the chambers dude added the yellow king. no—the king in yellow.

bierce also came up (thanks wikipedia!) with the monster that ends up as cthulhu’s half brother. h— something.

you ever read ambrose bierce? i’ve only read his devil’s dictionary and it’s hilarious.

“an inhabitant of carcosa” is in this book: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/4366

which i’m tempted to read now

—-

i was just browsing inside the book and hastur is “god of shepherds” not a monster (yet).
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