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Old 02.18.2017, 09:33 PM   #4561
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severino sometimes you focus on the oddest stuff. i mean that because this is a total tangent and not the point i was trying to make.

i don't know about you but i read demian and steppenwolf plus other things when i was 17/18/19. it was formative--or deformative (in a good way). it blew my mind of course at the time, but then he was derivative wasn't he? "illustrated jung". a lot of people don't take him seriously, criticize his way of writing, whatever. and yet-- he was great for me at that age. couldn't read him again at this point though.

also i could never get into the glass bead stuff. got too ponderous, i lost patience. but he had done his work already. many years later i read siddharta and it was "okay."

as for catcher in the rye-- it's very significant to a lot of people. i don't think it's a great book but it's a good one, and it's aimed at teenagers, no? i mean the original target audience were grownups, but the ones who took it to heart were the kids. and rightfully so. were there even teenagers before that book?

funny thing, i was talking with a friend about that book recently--independent of our conversations here. also saw it mentioned by woody allen not long ago.

anyway...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilduclo
well an interesting discussion. I don't hear too much on this about Beckett, though, or M Brodsky. And, to me, without them, it's just a discussion of GOOD lit, not great lit.

i don't know this brodsky-- only joseph.

so, beckett-- tell us what he does to you-- that's the interesting part. apparently he was the only one who understood joyce, or so joyce said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
I see Catcher in the Rye as more of a cult book than a great one, in the same bracket as something like Breakfast at Tiffany's or On the Road or L'Estranger, where reading them is almost a rite of passage for a lot of people. But then I haven't read it since I was a teenager, on the (maybe wrong) assumption that was the best and only time to do so.

the stranger! holy shit. yes. it's another of those books 18 year olds talked about incessantly where i grew up. i eventually read it and i was "and...?" i guess my country was more way more absurd than what happens in that novel.

the trial is more like it

i mean, i know they're different, but-- the trial. holy shit. i'm never gonna be over THAT.
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Old 02.19.2017, 06:32 PM   #4562
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Originally Posted by !@#$%!
severino sometimes you focus on the oddest stuff. i mean that because this is a total tangent and not the point i was trying to make.

i don't know about you but i read demian and steppenwolf plus other things when i was 17/18/19. it was formative--or deformative (in a good way). it blew my mind of course at the time, but then he was derivative wasn't he? "illustrated jung". a lot of people don't take him seriously, criticize his way of writing, whatever. and yet-- he was great for me at that age. couldn't read him again at this point though.

also i could never get into the glass bead stuff. got too ponderous, i lost patience. but he had done his work already. many years later i read siddharta and it was "okay."

as for catcher in the rye-- it's very significant to a lot of people. i don't think it's a great book but it's a good one, and it's aimed at teenagers, no? i mean the original target audience were grownups, but the ones who took it to heart were the kids. and rightfully so. were there even teenagers before that book?


Wait a minutia ... are you calling me a high school intellectual? That's it!!


Nah, just fucking round. Sorry.

I do focus on the oddest stuff, and I'm really into tangents, but I still think what I said was relevant to at least some parts of the discussion. Think. I'm not sure.

I read Steppenwolf and Siddartha at about 19. Thought they were both tremendous at the time. Haven't thought about either much. Unlike Carcher, which was really one of my first experiences reading something "good" for pleasure. It sticks with me, and I think about it fairly regularly -- have done so for almost 25 years now, so it's a special one for me, as it is for many many people. Not as special as Franny and Zooey or Raise High the Roofbeam, Carpenters, or "A Perfect Day for Bananfish," but still ... I'm a sucker for some Holden.

but when I mentioned Salinger, I meant ... Salinger. Not just Catcher. I was curious about whether or not my personal feelings, and the influence of my English professor mother, have made me biased. Was wondering if anyone else thought he belonged in a discussion of best 20th century literature.

But yeah I'm an odd duck man. I'm all over the place.

I genuinely think 100 Years of Solitude is in the running for best novel of the 20th century, though. Not that I've read a fraction of tjof 20th century's novels, but I've read a lot of those that are deemed classics, and it's a contender, for sure.

Ok at this point I'm just saying stuff as it pops into my head. Things are weird in my life right now. I need to blah a little.
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Old 02.19.2017, 06:34 PM   #4563
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lol things are weird in my life too

just listening to rinse & repeat spewing bullshit on press the meat

ugh!
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Old 02.20.2017, 11:21 AM   #4564
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Originally Posted by !@#$%!
lol things are weird in my life too

just listening to rinse & repeat spewing bullshit on press the meat

ugh!

OhMyGod Sweden.
I hear you. We're officially living in the alternate 1985, where Biff Tannen kept the book (Back to the Future II).

Seriously, watch that movie, tell me it doesn't look a lot like whatever the fuck is going on right now.

I also have some personal shit going on, so not super articulate er whatever. It's not necessarily bad, this personal shit, but definitely different. Freaking out about it a bit.
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Old 02.23.2017, 12:59 PM   #4565
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Have been working on a paper on memoir/fictional memoir kinda mindfuck and in one text I am reading right now, called "Fictions of the Self" the author used a Pynchon quote. I feel like I should read him more, he is hilarious. I've only read "The Crying of Lot 49" so far, the others always seemed too long... can anyone recommend me one of his books to get a bit more into him? It would be much appreciated !
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Yeah, hillarious. I guess because I'm OLD (all of 60, oh, my god), I'm a pedophile. People around here don't have any sense of humor or class, yourself included. So fuck you, too, you stupid cunt.
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Old 02.23.2017, 01:26 PM   #4566
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i don't like pynchon much. but i think severian and/or evollove are fans.

having said that, gravity's rainbow is his most celebrated thick and heavy tome.

there's really no way around that. so i've avoided it. i mean, i tried--and tossed it

sorry

nevertheless, he's important

--

ETA: oh, i'll post you something to read. RIGHT HERE.

one moment...

here you go:

http://www.electronicbookreview.com/...spresent/tense
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Old 02.23.2017, 02:28 PM   #4567
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Not me.

I like Crying well enough and re-read it now and then, but that's the only one I can get through. Made it 90 pages into V and less into Gravity's. I hear Mason and Dixon is good, but it's also a doorstopper.
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Old 02.24.2017, 05:04 PM   #4568
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Finished Phantasmagoria: Spirit Visions, Metaphors, and Media into the Twenty-First Century

http://rxttbooks.blogspot.com/2017/0...tter-than.html
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Old 02.24.2017, 05:06 PM   #4569
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Fucking grim. It's the account of a guy who spent years in a Russian gulag back in the 40's. Reading it the question always pops up for me of "how are humans able to carry on no matter how grim the outlook?". Knowing that whilst you might have a ten year sentence often the prisoner would be told at the end of it "we're adding another ten years, and there's nothing you can do". Where do people find the energy to carry on? It reminds me of that line in Samuel Beckett's story 'The Unnamable' "you must go on, I can't go on, I'll go on.".

There have been more famous boks about guags released "One day in the life..." etc. but why this one isn't more well know I'll never know.

That sounds good. I will add to my ever-expanding list
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Old 02.24.2017, 05:12 PM   #4570
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Pynchon is boring AF. so is Salinger.

I have tried asnd tried with thopse wto but life is too short.

Re: Vonnegut, I think people mistake simplicity with being juvenile/underdeveloped, when the hardest thing in the fucking world is conveying an idea in the simplest possible way so that it is undiluted. Vonnegut appeals to the cynics, the depressed, the ones who see everything we are supposed to take part in while living (church, politics, war, etc.) as fucking BULLSHIT, and who suffer because of this ambivalence towards what everyone else thinks is important. He was not the greatest prose stylist, but so what? There is more than one way to pluck a guitar string.

His books are funnier, and more of a FUCK YOU to the status quo we all live in, while still maintaining that essential goodness of man that Freethinkers and Unitarians cling to.
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Old 02.24.2017, 05:49 PM   #4571
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crying of lot 49 put me to sleep but i persisted. no prize at the end. still, it was a short book, so i managed.

these days i'm way more ruthless. with death approaching, there's no time to waste trying to prove something to a bunch of strangers.

i toss books a lot.

i'm a big tosser, lolololol
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Old 02.24.2017, 08:41 PM   #4572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Instigator
Pynchon is boring AF. so is Salinger.

I have tried asnd tried with thopse wto but life is too short.

Re: Vonnegut, I think people mistake simplicity with being juvenile/underdeveloped, when the hardest thing in the fucking world is conveying an idea in the simplest possible way so that it is undiluted. Vonnegut appeals to the cynics, the depressed, the ones who see everything we are supposed to take part in while living (church, politics, war, etc.) as fucking BULLSHIT, and who suffer because of this ambivalence towards what everyone else thinks is important. He was not the greatest prose stylist, but so what? There is more than one way to pluck a guitar string.

His books are funnier, and more of a FUCK YOU to the status quo we all live in, while still maintaining that essential goodness of man that Freethinkers and Unitarians cling to.

I get this. Sure. Cool.

Again, it's from an SF fan's perspective that I have beef with KVJ. I don't like seeing Slaughterhouse Five on best SF lists, above PKD or Wolfe or Bradbury.

But I like "Long Walk to Forever," so... fuck. The guy did simple well, and it's very true that writing simply and with any degree of eloquence is one of ge great challenges writers face.
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Old 02.24.2017, 08:55 PM   #4573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
crying of lot 49 put me to sleep but i persisted. no prize at the end. still, it was a short book, so i managed.

these days i'm way more ruthless. with death approaching, there's no time to waste trying to prove something to a bunch of strangers.

i toss books a lot.

i'm a big tosser, lolololol

Well, yah. Don't do that shit. That's reading for sport, and we've all done it, but it is absolutely a waste of time.

As for Pynchon... I Fucking LOVE Inherent Vice. Hate the movie pretty much. Love the novel. The only other thing I've read is Gravity's Rainbow, long ago. I think it's a great book, but if I hadn't read it in my early 20s, I think I would have missed the moment a bit.
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Old 02.25.2017, 10:31 AM   #4574
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Mason & Dixon was really fun. I'd read all of his earlier output years ago, but then went 10+ years & didn't miss and/or need anything more from him. So, with a lack of something to read & seeing a used MnD for like 3 whole dollars, I gave it a try. Worth every cent...then, having enjoyed that as much as I did, I tried Against the Day. Wow, what a fucking zero that one was...so back to my no Pynchon input needed life....
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Old 02.28.2017, 11:48 AM   #4575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilduclo
Mason & Dixon was really fun. I'd read all of his earlier output years ago, but then went 10+ years & didn't miss and/or need anything more from him. So, with a lack of something to read & seeing a used MnD for like 3 whole dollars, I gave it a try. Worth every cent...then, having enjoyed that as much as I did, I tried Against the Day. Wow, what a fucking zero that one was...so back to my no Pynchon input needed life....

I haven't read Mason & Dixon, but maybe I'll give it a go after reading this. I saw a copy of it at Goodwill last week. Guessing it's still there.

Regarding other Pynchon... yeah.. again, I loved Inherent Vice and I'm glad I read Gravity's Rainbow, but I don't feel any real desire to dig much deeper.
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Old 03.06.2017, 08:51 PM   #4576
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Currently digging into some short stories lately.. Hemingway is of course the master for me but I'm hoping you folks here could recommend a collection or Anthology for me??
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Old 03.06.2017, 10:10 PM   #4577
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Short stories! Wow, so many good ones. American lit you can't go wrong w/Hawthorne and Melville. Flannery O'Conner, Wm Faulkner. Hmm, Kafka, FM Dostoevsky...
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Old 03.06.2017, 11:37 PM   #4578
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Currently digging into some short stories lately.. Hemingway is of course the master for me but I'm hoping you folks here could recommend a collection or Anthology for me??
poe did it first id say check him out definitely

maupassant

chekhov was great tho a bit long winder per today's

oh, flannery fucking o'connor hell yeah hell yeah so good. she's just so great

BORGES, for jeeves sakes. it's all he wrote (and poems and essays). his pal bioy casares too. and his semi-disciple julio cortazar. argentina seems to have the top place in latin america when it comes to this genre. oh and roberto arlt. and their neighbor horacio quiroga. must we something in the water of the rio de la plata.

garcia marquez has some good ones too but he was better as a novelist. still, he's got a few classics.

personally i really like this mexican guy juan josé arreola. i read him too old for him to make a bigger impression unfortunately but he was very good. and another guy but hard to find--- jose revueltas ( his brother silvestre was a composer). if you can find "hegel and i"-- o man. oh and juan rulfo! hell yes.

oh, bolaño if you like him has short stories too.

jose maria arguedas has some really nice ones, sad ones if you can find him. also julio ramon ribeyro.

oh, and i really like william gibson's early short stories collected in burning chrome. guess im a fan.

and many many years ago jack vance blew my mind with his science fictions

what else hm.... ... tim obrien in the things they carried. really how he tells all by lists! genius

Duh! raymond carver of course! just saw shortcuts 2 weekends ago and spaced him. and thus drunkard john cheever. and updike

chekhov is really a master but might be a little long winded for our age. if you have the patience though...

who else...

tolstoy had some funny tales

oh, kafka of course! jeez. dat man. of course

soeaking of which people blow a lot of rockets for murakami but i dont find him original in the least. what can i say.

salinger is celebrated but he doesnt do it for me. sorry. but salinger i guess.

anotehr i cant get into is junot diaz, americas favorit his-panic. dont know, maybe some day

oh, joyce! dubliners is a lovely book. really great

okay gotta go zzzzzzz
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Old 03.07.2017, 07:19 AM   #4579
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Jesus fuck dude.

Just get an anthology. There are a fuckton. Easily available at libraries and used book places.

Or give me a few bucks for shipping and I'll hook you up. I have too many.
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Old 03.07.2017, 10:04 AM   #4580
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!@#$%! kicks all y'all's asses!@#$%! kicks all y'all's asses!@#$%! kicks all y'all's asses!@#$%! kicks all y'all's asses!@#$%! kicks all y'all's asses!@#$%! kicks all y'all's asses!@#$%! kicks all y'all's asses!@#$%! kicks all y'all's asses!@#$%! kicks all y'all's asses!@#$%! kicks all y'all's asses!@#$%! kicks all y'all's asses
who fucked jesus?

nah, anthologies often suck, unless you're talking about selected works from a great writer and even then selection is so often weirdly arbitrary

anthologies often lead to nowhere and present things in the wrong context.

here it becomes a matter of finding the right anthologist. often unsung heroes, the poor bastards. it's easier to hunt for a great writer than for a great anthologist.

best to look at complete books by great writers where you can really "get them"

to pare shit down, then i'd say start with fucking POE. that's the epicenter, in more ways than one. get the whole book of everything, with his essays and poems too, then peck around.

otherwise fast forward to FICCIONES which is where borges first found his best form.
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