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Old 08.27.2013, 09:56 PM   #45721
SuchFriendsAreDangerous
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Severian
I suppose I can see why someone might get that idea. He is a meat heat and he loves Rush and he's a figure who gained popularity in the post-Nirvana '90s, so there's a compulsion to think of him as part of that group of totally goddamn boring gutless faux metal shock groups (see Tool, RATM, Rob Zombie), but you not liking his music doesn't make him talentless. He's an Oscar winning score composer. He has absolutely refused to even acknowledge trends in popular music, and has only ever done his own thing on his own terms. He can write 12:00 industrial metal anthems, moody, complex piano-based instrumental pieces, and pop songs that pull from Depeche Mode, the Cure, Ministry, and Pinl Floyd in equal measure. He loves his fans and hates record companies, and he has probably done more, at the mainstream level, for electronic music than anyone else from is era.

So call his music crappy all you want, but be fair. The guy is objectively talented.

That's not why I listen. I listen because it takes me back to high school... To the downward spiral, and simpler times. When a handjob made a weekend a success, and failure was... No handjob. Sucky, but a pretty mild low compared to how life gets later on.

Anyway, I like it. It's fun. And good. It's even great at moments.

(a) If you ever throw tool into that mix of faux metal artists again I will jump on a plane and kick your ass, period.

(b) I agree with you completely, Trent Reznor is completely misunderstood, the guy is talented, I think his problem is he never focused it. Like, he has had a handful of epically great songs, but I feel never a complete album. He has made a few fucking frightening video game scores, but not everything in that medium he's done is good. He's contributed to inspiring cinema score, but only showed glimpses of brilliance. He's been the producer on albums for other bands that were all-time great records, but only sometimes. Its like, Trent, sit down and focus on one thing, and thrive at it, because there is clearly a lot of potential.
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Old 08.27.2013, 10:33 PM   #45722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
(a) If you ever throw tool into that mix of faux metal artists again I will jump on a plane and kick your ass, period.

(b) I agree with you completely, Trent Reznor is completely misunderstood, the guy is talented, I think his problem is he never focused it. Like, he has had a handful of epically great songs, but I feel never a complete album. He has made a few fucking frightening video game scores, but not everything in that medium he's done is good. He's contributed to inspiring cinema score, but only showed glimpses of brilliance. He's been the producer on albums for other bands that were all-time great records, but only sometimes. Its like, Trent, sit down and focus on one thing, and thrive at it, because there is clearly a lot of potential.


Sorry. I have post tool stress syndrome thing going on. Has to do with meeting them, for one thing, and seeing them become almost an afterthought to A Perfect Circle, whom I also saw live (with Nine Inch Nails, coincidentally), who were such an embarrassment as a "spin-off" band that they actually make me feel proud of Foo Fighters.

APC sounded like Incubus, played by people who had heard but never grasped Bauhaus. It was awful awful awful prog, and I feel like most of the people at the show were there for them, not for NIN, who was one of my favorite bands on earth at the time.

I'm not really into any big, loud, butt rocky bands other than Nine Inch Nails. Loudness doesn't appeal to me anymore. Not when it's just for loud messes sake. (Unless it's Electric Wizard or Neurosis or something.

I do have to disagree about the "complete album" comment you made, because I believe that The Downward Spiral is quite complete, and brilliant throughout. Year Zero and The Slip are both also surprisingly well put together albums. Are they 100% great? No. But they're 85 or higher, and they're weird as hell for billboard chart toppers. So is Broken, despite being only 8-9 songs long, depending on what you consider "pinion" to be.

Anyway...
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Old 08.27.2013, 10:50 PM   #45723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Severian
Sorry. I have post tool stress syndrome thing going on. Has to do with meeting them, for one thing, and seeing them become almost an afterthought to A Perfect Circle, whom I also saw live (with Nine Inch Nails, coincidentally), who were such an embarrassment as a "spin-off" band that they actually make me feel proud of Foo Fighters.

A Perfect Circle is not a spin off, its a side project, and as with the case sometimes, artists move on with new projects. tool is not over, but the A Perfect Circle interlude I thought was well timed for the break in between Lateralus and 10,000 Days.

Quote:
APC sounded like Incubus, played by people who had heard but never grasped Bauhaus. It was awful awful awful prog, and I feel like most of the people at the show were there for them, not for NIN, who was one of my favorite bands on earth at the time.

I disagree, it was more like coffee shop tool with a distinctively different kind of bass structure and more singing, less growling.


Quote:

I do have to disagree about the "complete album" comment you made, because I believe that The Downward Spiral is quite complete, and brilliant throughout.

I agree with you, and I feel The Downward Spiral is the closet to a brilliantly complete NIN album, but even it has lows in comparison with its highs, and some of the material comes across blatantly as filler.

Quote:
Year Zero and The Slip are both also surprisingly well put together albums. Are they 100% great? No. But they're 85 or higher, and they're weird as hell for billboard chart toppers. So is Broken, despite being only 8-9 songs long, depending on what you consider "pinion" to be.


Wasn't dissing the production or craft, just my feeling of the sound. NIN albums always feel like in part they fall short of their potential. Its just my opinion, not a fact.

Quote:
Anyway...

Yeah, just don't diss tool anymore. We can agree the Trent Reznor is talented, and I enjoy A LOT of what he has done, I just think he needs to focus on ONE thing, and do it exceptionally, and I agree, the Downward Spiral is the closest to that, but that was what, 20 years ago?
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Old 08.28.2013, 02:14 AM   #45724
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Old 08.28.2013, 06:33 AM   #45725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
A Perfect Circle is not a spin off, its a side project, and as with the case sometimes, artists move on with new projects. tool is not over, but the A Perfect Circle interlude I thought was well timed for the break in between Lateralus and 10,000 Days.



I disagree, it was more like coffee shop tool with a distinctively different kind of bass structure and more singing, less growling.




I agree with you, and I feel The Downward Spiral is the closet to a brilliantly complete NIN album, but even it has lows in comparison with its highs, and some of the material comes across blatantly as filler.



Wasn't dissing the production or craft, just my feeling of the sound. NIN albums always feel like in part they fall short of their potential. Its just my opinion, not a fact.



Yeah, just don't diss tool anymore. We can agree the Trent Reznor is talented, and I enjoy A LOT of what he has done, I just think he needs to focus on ONE thing, and do it exceptionally, and I agree, the Downward Spiral is the closest to that, but that was what, 20 years ago?


I (grudgingly) won't diss Tool anymore. Jesus. I'm already not allowed to in "real" life because they're one of Noisefield's favorite bands, but yeah, that's totally fine. I'll censor my irrational negativity completely. No problem.
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Old 08.28.2013, 07:13 AM   #45726
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one of the most creative artists in hip-hop/R&B these days.

can't wait for his sophomore album.
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Old 08.28.2013, 01:08 PM   #45727
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Old 08.28.2013, 02:39 PM   #45728
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Old 08.28.2013, 04:07 PM   #45729
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Old 08.28.2013, 07:12 PM   #45730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Severian
I (grudgingly) won't diss Tool anymore. Jesus. I'm already not allowed to in "real" life because they're one of Noisefield's favorite bands, but yeah, that's totally fine. I'll censor my irrational negativity completely. No problem.

I was being facetious, you can diss whomever you'd like, I'm not into censorship, however, I'm going to call you out anytime, which by the way, you should in turn do whenever I shit on Jay-Z or Kanye which I do routinely
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Old 08.29.2013, 09:10 PM   #45731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
I was being facetious, you can diss whomever you'd like, I'm not into censorship, however, I'm going to call you out anytime, which by the way, you should in turn do whenever I shit on Jay-Z or Kanye which I do routinely

I don't believe in giving people shot about their taste in music. Not even in jest. Too many people actually judge one another based on the sounds, images, and words that sound pleasurable to them, which is something a person has no control over. No offense. I'll fuck around a bit, but I think that doing so in earnest is destructive to art as a whole.

I guess taking a crack at an artist is fine, but doing so to other people because said artist's music sound good to them is ridiculous.

... Poser.
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Old 08.30.2013, 05:23 AM   #45732
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Old 08.30.2013, 06:27 AM   #45733
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Old 08.30.2013, 08:58 AM   #45734
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re: NIN, I find it really difficult to validate my distaste for reznor without going into a rambling, incoherent diatribe about how he destroyed industrial by being a disingenous, self-obsessed arsehole.

on a purely musical level, while I understand their cultural relevance 20 (!!!) years ago, eschewing all that (in my mind) his music is crap. his lyrics are horrible, his voice is like fucking babies crying to me, and for someone who has such incredible equipment at his disposal the sounds he conjures are interminably dull.

for a more idiotic, emotional exploration of my hate for reznor, please see here: http://www.tohereknowswhen.org/smf/i...p?topic=1610.0
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Old 08.30.2013, 09:30 AM   #45735
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Old 08.30.2013, 10:05 AM   #45736
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Old 08.30.2013, 10:30 AM   #45737
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...regrettably. Pointless arguments suck
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Old 08.30.2013, 10:58 AM   #45738
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Old 08.30.2013, 11:50 AM   #45739
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^^^Fractal Ancestry is such a favorite!

 
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Old 08.30.2013, 04:22 PM   #45740
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