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Old 12.15.2012, 03:15 PM   #2261
h8kurdt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
Kompany was one of my favourite players last season and to be fair to him, Man City's problems in defence this season seems more down to Mancini's tampering than with the players themselves. And I couldn't agree more about defenders being underrated. It just seems like we're in the middle of an era where they're even more undervalued than usual.

And let's hope the FA ban Fellaini for that headbutt in time for him to be out against West Ham next week.

What is this blasphemy?

As for Komapany, he's actually one of the few players I still like.
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Old 12.15.2012, 03:35 PM   #2262
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Yeah, I don't know anyone who doesn't like Kompany. He's like the Michael Palin of the Premiership.
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Old 12.15.2012, 07:06 PM   #2263
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this might explain what you're seeing not as a result of lesser individual talent but rather environmental changes:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog...ide-law-genius
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Old 12.16.2012, 01:45 PM   #2264
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There's a lot of truth to that article but we've had some great defenders/defences since 2005. They just seem to have taken a bit of a dip this last couple of seasons, and this season in particular. But given the various rule changes over the years I suppose we can only judge defenders (or any player in any position) in terms of their own era, given we'll never know how Messi or Kompany would've performed under previous conditions just as we'll never know how Maradona or Maldini would perform in this current one (although I suspect with all of them, that they'd have done just fine in any era).

Anyway, off the point but 'world class'. I hear this term all the time about whether a player is or isn't but I've never quite understood what 'world class' actually means. Anyone?
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Old 12.16.2012, 02:35 PM   #2265
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demonyo, is your real name "paul moore"? (rhetorical question, don't answer). i thought the problem might be defenders in the prem because the bundesliga has some awesome performers as i've mentioned, plus great defenders in serie a, and i think spain also have some great defensive players, so i googled "best premiere league defenders" and this turned up:

http://hereisthecity.com/2012/12/12/...ood-defenders/

zat yoo, zantee kloss? in any case interesting contribution to the whole question i guess it sorta covers the individual vs. enviromental factors as well.

...


world class= probably means something different by region but i'd assume a player worthy of a champion team either in a continental league (ofc not concacaf, etc), a world cup, something of that sort. someone who can have huge salaries or who could do great anywhere...?

damn, i am ready to play fantasy football again, at last, and nothing available, is there?

maybe i should buy this book

http://www.amazon.com/Inverting-Pyra.../dp/1409102041

looks pretty good

im rambling because i didn't sleep last night. also, i need to stay awake. but that book looks interesting.

====

ps you might enjoy watching this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR46hyrCCI4
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Old 12.16.2012, 03:24 PM   #2266
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Who's Paul Moore?!?

I've heard that the problem with defences is spreading to other leagues but I've not seen enough to really know so I'll take your word for it that it isn't.

And yeah, that tends to be how I see 'world class', too: a player that'd likely make the first team of any of the major clubs or national sides. Begging the question, is there a single truly world class English player right now - by which I suppose we have to mean is there a current English player good enough to play for Barca or Real or Bayern or Spain or Germany? Rooney? Probably (Real, anyway). Scholes? Definitely once, but not now. Ditto Gerrard, Lampard and Ashley Cole.

And yeah, I really want that Jonathan Wilson book, too.

Ewwww Hummels. Looking good!!!
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Old 12.16.2012, 03:39 PM   #2267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
is there a single truly world class English player right now -

joe hart for sure! and ashley cole (speaking of defenders). and maybe (maybe) rooney... naaah.. rooney definitely! (he's no messi/cronaldo/zlatan though). i don't know the other players so much.

ps- paul moore is teh dude who wrote that thing. a qpr fan with the wig in the photo.
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Old 12.16.2012, 08:00 PM   #2268
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Joe Hart is a good call. Ashley Cole was world class maybe two or three seasons ago but he's probably a bit old now. Rooney's the most frustrating. On his day he's phenomenal and would justify his place in any side but he just disappears in far too many games. But yeah, Joe Hart for sure (don't tell him, though; his egos getting a bit out of control as it is.)
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Old 12.16.2012, 09:00 PM   #2269
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gareth bale might be "world class" someday, i know hes not english but hes from the uk
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Old 12.17.2012, 03:03 AM   #2270
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I'd say Jack Wiltshire.
For me, whenever I see him play he is by far the best player on the pitch
I could see him in the barca team easily, and he is only going to get better as he gets older
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Old 12.17.2012, 08:22 AM   #2271
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I think Bale might already be world class but, as you say, he's Welsh. Wiltshire could be, one day, as I think could Gary Cahill and definitely Leighton Baines. In terms of where they're at right now, though, I can only think of Joe Hart.
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Old 12.17.2012, 10:37 AM   #2272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!

I just bought it in my local bookshop. I skimmed through it on the way home and I do think you'll love it. I'll let you know how I get on with it. If you see it, I'd also recommend Gianluca Vialli and Gabrielle Marcotti's book, the Italian Job. On the surface it's Vialli's autobiography but it's really a discussion of tactical and cultural differences between the Prem and Serie A, with insights from big hitters like Mourinho and Fergie. I think you'd really like it.
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Old 12.17.2012, 10:57 AM   #2273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
I just bought it in my local bookshop. I skimmed through it on the way home and I do think you'll love it. I'll let you know how I get on with it. If you see it, I'd also recommend Gianluca Vialli and Gabrielle Marcotti's book, the Italian Job. On the surface it's Vialli's autobiography but it's really a discussion of tactical and cultural differences between the Prem and Serie A, with insights from big hitters like Mourinho and Fergie. I think you'd really like it.

thanks man. im gonna get the kindle version (obviously shipping would kill me). i'd be reading it already if i wasn't dealing wiht a couple of ugly deadlines (free tomorrow! free tomorrow!). aghhhhhhh........
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Old 12.17.2012, 11:12 AM   #2274
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The only odd thing I've noticed so far is that while written in 2008, there's no real mention of Guardiola's Barcalona. It only seems to go up to Mourinho's Chelsea. Although given the sheer amount of attention Barca have received in recent years, that may not be such a bad thing. And if you like diagrams of obscure Uruguay formations from the 50s, you'll be in absolute heaven.

My local shop also had this, which I've been meaning to read for a while but will probably get after I've finished Inverting the Pyramid.

 



I also saw this, which you may be more up your street:

 


My new years resolution may be to read as many nerdy football books as I possibly can.
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Old 12.17.2012, 02:14 PM   #2275
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You can't get much more geeky than this surely?
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Old 12.17.2012, 06:48 PM   #2276
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Oh that's beyond the pale. You can't have a book about something like that with such a serious cover. At least the cover of Inverting the Pyramid makes it look a bit like a Bill Bryson book.
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Old 12.17.2012, 07:56 PM   #2277
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So a three game ban for Fellaini. Will that be the last we see of him at Everton, I wonder?

 
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Old 12.18.2012, 03:08 AM   #2278
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*puts fingers in ears* lalalalalalala. The rumours are that Chelsea are after him. CHELSEA? How the fuck can Chelsea need another midfielder.

If they did want him they better cough up.
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Old 12.18.2012, 03:25 AM   #2279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h8kurdt
*puts fingers in ears* lalalalalalala. The rumours are that Chelsea are after him. CHELSEA? How the fuck can Chelsea need another midfielder.

If they did want him they better cough up.

we are gonna thrash Chelsea 2-0 on Wednesday!
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Old 12.18.2012, 09:35 AM   #2280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h8kurdt
*puts fingers in ears* lalalalalalala. The rumours are that Chelsea are after him. CHELSEA? How the fuck can Chelsea need another midfielder.

If they did want him they better cough up.

Absolutely. Another attacking midfielder is the last thing they need. I actually wonder if Abramovich is reluctant to sign anyone big before his next 'proper' manager is in place. His priority right now seems to be finding a way to offload older players and, perhaps his one unavoidable big spend, getting a replacement for Torres. But there's no such thing as common sense with Abramovich so who knows?
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