[SynthethicalY]

I really mean this. I am getting tired of this political fad, of being enviromentalist. I mean I care for the enviroment, but it is not of greater issue as ending poverty. So many people are dying on the streets, yet no one bothers to care, but yeah a tree gets chopped down, or a garden get's demolished, everyone cares. Also why are we spending so much money on the enviroment, when our schools systems are at their lowest. Have you seen how illiterate kids are when they enter elementary? SOrry for venting here, but it is need to be said.

[Пятхъдесят Шест]

Well, whats the point of ending poverty if the world is uninhabitable by the time the impoverished and exploited crawl out of the third world gutter?

And when they do, will they contribute to the environmental mess as China and India have done?

[SynthethicalY]

Certain areas in the world are inhabitable already. They are already doing it, by being homeless. You know how much trash they leave.

[Пятхъдесят Шест]

Originally Posted by SynthethicalY

Certain areas in the world are inhabitable already.

Oh, go on! You're kidding!

[Savage Clone]

Poverty would be easier to deal with if people would stop making so goddamn many more people. The environmental issues would also lessen.
Compulsory birth control for all!
Seriously though, this is not an "either/or" situation, and treating it as such just makes you come across as brainwashed by myopic talk radio pundits trying to get ratings by speaking in deliberately polarizing or provocative ways.

Can we all accept that we live on a shit planet and stop pointing it out and doing something that ACTUALLY IMPROVES IT instead? Talk talk talk. That's no use to anyone.

[nature scene]

why separate issues of poverty and the environment? There is a pretty compelling case to be made that poverty is an underlying cause of a lot of environmental degradation (not all), and that increased wealth can lead to improved environmental conditions.

Also, who exactly is spending "so much money" on the environment?

[Пятхъдесят Шест]

Originally Posted by nature scene

Also, who exactly is spending "so much money" on the environment?

Exactly, on the contrary. People are spending 'so much money' destroying it.

[Trasher02]

You know what people don't care about the people who die on the streets etc. They care more about the enviroment because they care more about themselves then they care about poverty.
Wow. That's A LOT of "they care about's" in one sentence.

[nature scene]

in the end, I tend to agree with SynthethicalY, as far as poverty should probably be prioritized over the environment.

Ultimately I think Synthethicaly's position comes as a result of the over-politicization of environmental issues, which really should not be political at all. We all want clean air and water (although we may disagree on suitable levels). Less fundamentalism among 'environmentalists' would be a major step in the right direction.

Also, even if increasing human populations do cause environmental stress, population control by any institutionalized means is an unacceptable solution and people need to get past the population issue.

Originally Posted by nature scene

why separate issues of poverty and the environment? There is a pretty compelling case to be made that poverty is an underlying cause of a lot of environmental degradation (not all), and that increased wealth can lead to improved environmental conditions.

Also, who exactly is spending "so much money" on the environment?

You are so wrong on many issues, it's painful to read your post. In fact, I won't read the last missive because I'm sure it's a load of crap.

[Savage Clone]

Originally Posted by nature scene

Also, even if increasing human populations do cause environmental stress, population control by any institutionalized means is an unacceptable solution and people need to get past the population issue.

I suppose any "institutional means" of re-distributing wealth would also be "unacceptable?"
People are too short-sighted and selfish by their very nature to tackle any of this stuff without being forced to.

[Savage Clone]

Originally Posted by SynthethicalY

So many people are dying on the streets, yet no one bothers to care, but yeah a tree gets chopped down, or a garden get's demolished, everyone cares.

I'm sorry, but I just do not agree with this. The poverty issue gets plenty of air time and is spoken about quite often, especially in the global sense or regarding world economics. Neither one of these issues is a "political fad;" they are both legitimate issues that deserve attention, and they both have their fair share of people who put effort into them.
On an individual scale, it's far easier to make choices or contributions that might have a positive effect on the environment when done on a mass scale than it is to address the general issue of mass poverty as well, which is why that issue might seem more visible to the general population. However, to say that "no one cares" or that "no one says anything" about poverty is simply ridiculous.

Originally Posted by jico.

maybe we can do more then one thing at a time? we not end both?

Your fair share of internet stupidity is not gonna help, I'm afraid. It bugs me quite a bit that we have all the means to make it a better world, yet the majority of people fall victim of plain ignorance or bask into the lame sunshine that is reflected on them. Enough is enough, while we sit here, there are more worthy people making things happen than a few internet post counts. Enough to make us feel worthless.

[Savage Clone]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

Enough is enough, while we sit here, there are more worthy people making things happen than a few internet post counts. Enough to make us feel worthless.

I ride a bicycle, eat a vegan diet and am not having any children. I don't have any money or political clout. I am also not in control of the choices other people make. I can only change my own behavior, and I do what I can to leave a small footprint.
I don't know what more I can do as an individual.

Individulas are all well and fine. Groups of people make things happen, though. There's no arguing with that. Populist remarks need no reply to this post either.

I also think that a lot of creativity has gone down the drains because of people sitting comfortably on notions of it that are really oudated. The notion of happiness is truly stale and has stopped to a point where mediocrity is accepted as the only option. Go figure.

Originally Posted by jico.

one indivudal might not be enough change things, but at least he's doing his part.

What does that mean?

[luxinterior]

Originally Posted by SynthethicalY

Have you seen how illiterate kids are when they enter elementary?

That's hardly the problem. More like, how illiterate kids remain after years of school.

A lot of parents have tried teaching their kids to read/write long before they're taught to do so in school...and screw up immensely because they don't know how to go about teaching that sort of thing properly.

[Savage Clone]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

What does that mean?

I think maybe he means the same thing you mean; that if enough people make certain choices in their individual behavior, change will result.