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Old 05.01.2007, 10:37 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tesla69
This link suggests it might be the severe sunspot activity...
http://www.synchronizm.com/blog/inde...-flew-too-high

I also wonder if the shifting of the magnetic poles migth be involved.

I still think we'll see severe results from Monsanto's godplaying, but if not, I won't complain. Nature Scene, there are also studies that contradict the "everything is fine" results of the studies you pointed out...I haven't taken the time to see which are sponsored by Monsanto/EPA vs independent/nonUS corporates studies, and critiques of said studies. Obviously, I have little faith or trust in the former.

%#@$^&* (Sic) wrote: "yes man you changed your mind but i have to ask the question, do you only believe those who confirm your paranoid suspicions? " Doesn't what you wrote just contradict itself? And I'm sorry you think I'm 'paranoid" (why not just call me a commie or fag or some other name to make you feel more safe or whatever reason you have for namecalling?) You see, I've been right enough times to know I'm not paranoid. Its not liek I inbvented the information. I didn't invent the act that the US tested radioactive material on pregnant women, or allowed black men with syphilis to go untreated for 40 years while they were being monitored, or conducted biological warfare experiements on San Francisco and in New York etc. It wasn't me who set up fake brothels in San Francisco and then dosed the customers with LSD to see what would happen. This stuff is real. Why is it paranoid to understand this history? I'd suggest it seems that way because you have been totally brainwashed. Anything that doesn't get approved by the Corporates is "paranoid". I'm sorry - to all of you - but the world is a place run by people with their private conflicting agendas and many of those so-called people are out to kill you and eat your children. You are the fuel for the machine. You can call me paranoid, but who has the finger on the 5,000 nuclear bombs currently aimed at the planet? I'm paranoid?!! HA!! I've barely touched the subject with you ppl...

im not going to deny that governments institutions an individuals often carry out criminal activities, but where i see the paranoia is when a criminal conspiracy becomes the default explanation for anything and everything under the sun. i do not deny your right to post this information, nor do i think they are bad--- actually i often enjoy your posts and agree with some of your points of view. all i ask is that you don't abandon reason when you posts things, because that undermines the very arguments you're trying to make.
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Old 05.01.2007, 11:12 AM   #22
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This is something I've been following for a while now, and it's been causing me great concern. I don't want to get involved in any arguments here, but I do think it's important to keep things in perspective, and while there is evidence that points to GMOs as the cause of CCD, there are also various other theories which are also very possible. However, whatever the cause of CCD, the fact of the matter is we could find ourselves in very grave danger if we lose the effects of cross pollination which are created by bees.

I do agree that Monsanto have totally failed to take any sort of responsibility for their actions (along with the other big biotechs such as Bayer etc). One of the scariest things I think they have porduced are the terminator crops - they only produce sterile seeds, so that you can't save seeds to plant next year. With a lack of research into how these genes might spread there are some very big and scary questions about what might happen if they get out into the environment.
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Old 05.01.2007, 11:46 AM   #23
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Check out the latest news: claims that scientists have fingerprinted a fungus - Nosema ceranae - with being at least partially responsible for this sudden disappearance. Several newspapers have published articles. I'll keep looking for any journals with the actual studies.
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Old 05.01.2007, 11:53 AM   #24
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Yeah I read the news stories about it, but it's still not conclusive.
Do you have access to online science journals?
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Old 05.01.2007, 12:00 PM   #25
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Yeah, but I don't think this study would be in any journals yet. First it needs to go through some peer review. If it does turn out to be the case, it would be a manageable issue, hopefully.
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Old 05.01.2007, 12:02 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucyrulesok
I do agree that Monsanto have totally failed to take any sort of responsibility for their actions (along with the other big biotechs such as Bayer etc). One of the scariest things I think they have porduced are the terminator crops - they only produce sterile seeds, so that you can't save seeds to plant next year. With a lack of research into how these genes might spread there are some very big and scary questions about what might happen if they get out into the environment.

yes, i heard from a scientist who works in corn in mexico that cross pollination could potentially cause a famine, by introducing the terminator gene into non-monsanto crops. this could also potentially decimate the genetic variability of the species which is vital for its survival-- there are innumerable varieties of corn in mexico, and those could disappear in a sort of mass-suicide.

of course im hopeful that nature always takes care of itself-- not that i attribute it any agency, but the gene pool can take all kinds of things & spit them back out...
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Old 05.01.2007, 12:11 PM   #27
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Apparently, the study on Nosema ceranae is in journals.

Experimental infection of Apis mellifera honeybees with Nosema ceranae
Mariano Higesa, Pilar García-Palenciab, Raquel Martín-Hernándeza and Aránzazu Meana
Journal of Invertebrate Pathology
Volume 94, Issue 3, March 2007, Pages 211-217

They show that this fungus can cause the CCD and may be associated with the collapses in Europe. Field tests on naturally occuring infections are still needed.
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Old 05.01.2007, 12:12 PM   #28
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I guess when it comes to the intersection of Govt and Transnational corporatists I no longer give them any benefit of the doubt, they have proven time and again they will push the envelope regardless of the liability or outcome. Iraq has proven beyond a doubt when its between the lives of children and profits America will take the profits EVERY time. The West's suicide economy is a great evil.
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Old 05.01.2007, 12:12 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nature scene
Yeah, but I don't think this study would be in any journals yet. First it needs to go through some peer review. If it does turn out to be the case, it would be a manageable issue, hopefully.

thanks for the post! good news (maybe?)

http://www.latimes.com/news/la-sci-b...iewed-homepage

problem is, the fungus is controllable by an antibiotic, fumagillin. and look at this:

http://nano-taiwan.sinica.edu.tw/Hea...2&DetailNo=939
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Old 05.01.2007, 12:15 PM   #30
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On 6 January 2005, Monsanto (USA) was fined US$ 1.5 million for bribing government officials in Indonesia to avoid a decree that demanded an environmental risk assessment for the Bt cotton Bollgard. The US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) charged Monsanto with illicit payments in violation with the Foreign Corruption Act (FCAP), with bribery including US$ 50,000 in cash to repeal an decree requiring an environmental risk assessment, falsifying books and invoices, and “questionable payments” such as for the purchase of land and the design and construction of a house in the name of the wife of a senior Ministry of Agriculture official. Such payments of approximately US$ 700,000 were made to at least 140 current and former Indonesian government officials and their family members from 1997 to 2002 (SEC 2005).
Monsanto has agreed to pay US$ 500,000 to settle the bribe charge and other related violations, and to pay US$1 million to the US Department of Justice, to adopt internal compliance measures including an having an independent compliance expert and to cooperate with continuing civil and criminal investigations (SEC 2005)
The “financial irregularities”, as Monsanto calls the bribery, were discovered by Monsanto itself in 2001 and investigated internally before the disclosed to the US authorities in November 2002. The explicit case of bribery in order to avoid an environmental took place while the internal investigation was under way, and it was disclosed to the US authorities at a time when it was obvious that this specific bribery was not successful.
The employees were sacked, and in a press release Monsanto announced a new programme to comply with anti-bribery regulations. In Indonesia, the Corruption Eradication Commission (KPK) announced that it would also investigate the matter (Saraswati 2005).
In the main case that drew the attention here, the bribery appeared to be unsuccessful since the decree in question was not repealed. But doubts remain over the influence the continuous bribery of 140 officials over 5 years (1997-2002). What is clear, is that the Indonesian government showed a much more positive attitude towards Monsanto's Bt cotton then the Indonesian farmers.
Bt cotton in Indonesia The history of Bt cotton in Indonesia begins in 1996 when PT Monagro Kimia, a Monsanto subsidiary, started variety tests to find a cotton variety for cultivation in Indonesia, especially in South Sulawesi. Glasshouse and field trials with genetically modified, Bt cotton started in 1998, and in 1999 Bt cotton was approved and declared as environmentally safe by the Indonesian government. However, PT Monagro Kimia has been reported to distribute Bt cotton seeds since 1998 without proper approval. (GRAIN 2001, PAN AP 2001).
In February 2001, the government issues a decree to grow Bollgard Bt cotton (Bt DP 5690B, NuCOTN 35B) in seven districts in South Sulawesi. These plans met strong opposition from Indonesian farmers. Even the state Minister of Environment had repeatedly expressed his strong opposition and with reference to Indonesia's signing of the Biosafety Protocol. Before the Minister of Agriculture for the district government in South Sulawesi gave his agreement for the importation of seeds, the Minister of Environment said he would order Monsanto's Indonesian subsidiary PT Monagro Kimia to stop using GM cotton seeds (GM Watch 2004).
In March 2001, only five weeks after the decree to importing Bt cotton was issued, 40 tons of GM Bollgard cotton seeds were flown into Indonesia. The plane from South Africa landed on the airport's military area, tightly guarded by military to keep protesting farmers and press away (GM Watch 2004). The seeds were driven away under armed guard in trucks marked “rice delivery' to be sold to farmers in seven districts in the province (Down to Earth 2001a, b, FoE International 2004).
http://www.mindfully.org/GE/2005/Mon...esia1sep05.htm
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Old 05.01.2007, 12:21 PM   #31
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^^ yes they are fucking evil no doubt
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Old 05.02.2007, 03:24 PM   #32
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this article is interesting if corporate...am I just getting sucked into media hysteria?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070502/D8OSD7EO4.html

Even though experts this year gave what's happening a new name and think this is a new type of die-off, it may have happened before. Bromenshenk said cited die-offs in the 1960s and 1970s that sound somewhat the same. There were reports of something like this in the United States in spots in 2004, Pettis said. And Germany had something similar in 2004, said Peter Neumann, co-chairman of a 17-country European research group studying the problem.
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Old 05.03.2007, 11:51 AM   #33
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I just read this article
http://www.raidersnewsnetwork.com/full.php?news=5139

and I note these two points:
"Of course everyone is hoping for a quick solution to appear, and tantalizing reports have emerged. Recent military research at Edgewood Chemical Biological Center claims to have narrowed the likely cause of CCD to a virus, a micro-parasite or both. This work used a new technology called the Integrated Virus Detection System (IVDS), which can rapidly screen samples for pathogens."

and

"Varroa [the bee mite] is the bane of beekeepers everywhere except China, where it originated, and the honey bees have local resistance."

Edgewood is a chemical/biological warfare research facility. It occurs to me that this could be a biological warfare attack! Its the kind of Slow War William Cooper predicted before he was shot on his doorstep by police.
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Old 05.14.2007, 02:32 PM   #34
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Modified Crop Genes 'Jump The Species Barrier'
By AnthonyBarnett
Public Affairs Editor - The Observer

A leading zoologist has found evidence that genes used to modify crops can jump the species barrier and cause bacteria to mutate, prompting fears that GM technology could pose serious health risks.

A four-year study by Professor Hans-Hinrich Kaatz, a respected German zoologist, found that the alien gene used to modify oilseed rape had transferred to bacteria living inside the guts of honey bees.

The research - which has yet to be published and has not been reviewed by fellow scientists - is highly significant because it suggests that all types of bacteria could become contaminated by genes used in genetically modified technology, including those that live inside the human digestive system. If this happened, it could have an impact on the bacteria's vital role in helping the human body fight disease, aid digestion and facilitate blood clotting.

Agriculture Minister Nick Brown, who was yesterday advising farmers who have accidentally grown contaminated GM oilseed rape in Britain to rip up their crops, confirmed the potential significance of Kaatz's research. He said: 'If this is true, then it would be very serious.'

The 47-year-old Kaatz has been reluctant to talk about his research until it has been published in a scientific journal, because he fears a backlash from the scientific community similar to that faced by Dr Arpad Pustzai, who claimed that genetically modified potatoes damaged the stomach lining of rats. Pustzai was sacked and had his work discredited.

But in his first newspaper interview, Kaatz told The Observer: 'It is true, I have found the herbicide-resistant genes in the rapeseed transferred across to the bacteria and yeast inside the intestines of young bees. This happened rarely, but it did happen.' Although Kaatz realised the potential 'significance' of his findings, he said he 'was not surprised' at the results. Asked if this had implications for the bacteria inside the human gut, he said: 'Maybe, but I am not an expert on this.' Dr Mae-Wan Ho, geneticist at Open University and a critic of GM technology, has no doubts about the dangers. She said: 'These findings are very worrying and provide the first real evidence of what many have feared. Everybody is keen to exploit GM technology, but nobody is looking at the risk of horizontal gene transfer.

'We are playing about with genetic structures that existed for millions of years and the experiment is running out of control.' One of the biggest concerns is if the anti-biotic resistant gene used in some GM crops crossed over to bacteria. 'If this happened it would leave us unable to treat major illnesses like meningitis and E coli .'

Kaatz, who works at the respected Institute for Bee Research at the University of Jena in Germany, built nets in a field planted with genetically modified rapeseed produced by AgrEvo. He let the bees fly freely within the net. At the beehives, he installed pollen traps in order to sample the pollen from the bees' hindlegs when entering the hive. This pollen was fed to young honey bees in the laboratory. Pollen is the natural diet of young bees, which need a high protein diet. Kaatz then extracted the intestine of the young bees and discovered that the gene from the GM rape-seed had been transferred in the bee gut to the microbes.

Professor Robert Pickard, director-general of the Institute of the British Nutrition Foundation, is a bee expert as well as being a biologist and has visited the institute where Kaatz works. He said: 'There is no doubt that, if Kaatz's research is substantiated, then it poses very interesting questions and will need to be looked at very closely. 'But it must be remembered that the human body has been coping perfectly well with strange DNA for millions of years. And we also know many people have been eating GM products for years without showing any signs of ill health.' (link to www.rense.com)

Gene transfer to bacteria inside the bees intestine. Maybe that's a contributing factor in their disappearance.
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Old 09.04.2007, 11:16 AM   #35
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Coming Next Week: Colony Collapse Disorder Breakthrough

The Beekeeper / Kim Flottum
The first break in the CCD mystery is about to be released.
Researchers at Penn State, the USDA and Columbia University have had a research paper accepted by a prestigious scientific journal magazine that outlines the first published information on a possible cause of Colony Collapse Disorder … commonly known as CCD. But Science and for the most part the researchers are being tight-lipped about what’s in that paper. The secrecy surrounding this research has been extraordinary and some of the activities of the researchers has left us scratching our heads.
One of the scientists let on a few weeks ago in a small farming magazine that what they had found was a virus, or viruses … supposedly previously unknown in honey bees, or at least in U.S. honey bees. Moreover, it was hinted that there were at least two points of entry into the U.S. for these bee-killing agents. Or maybe they aren’t bee-killers, but simply a way that other bee-killers can gain a foothold and make life miserable for bees, and their keepers. Early reports did indicate that bees from alleged CCD infested hives were full of fungus, bacteria and all manner of other pathogens.

Narrowing a Crowded Field Of Suspects

Cellphones, aliens, the Rapture, Nosema cerenae, African honey bee genes, most ag pesticides, corporate downsizing, varroa and tracheal mites and almost all other common honey bee diseases have been ruled out, we’re told, so what’s left has to be something new, something exotic, or something mutated. Unfortunately, some of the CCD Working Group researchers have not been able to examine all of the samples that were taken early on so some of the CCD Working Group haven’t been in on the findings. Plus, there was an early indication of new virus(es) back at the first Conference months ago, but apparently that information was dismissed. It will be interesting to see if some of the old stuff is the same as the new stuff that’s going to get all the attention when the story is released.
Meanwhile, some, but not all beekeepers whose bees suffered last year are again reporting similar problems this fall. Colonies were slow to build this summer, there were bees but no honey, and now, there are no bees. Some believe still that agricultural pesticides are to blame and are pursuing that angle in trying to solve this riddle. Add to that that the big experiment of putting bees in hives that had experienced CCD last year with comb that had been sterilized just don’t seem to be taking off as was expected. It’s not too early to tell by now, and the results aren’t nearly as dramatic as hoped for. So something’s still up with that.

More Questions Than Answers — As Usual

Well, Science magazine says that all will be known on Thursday afternoon, Sept 6 after their news conference. But the researchers are already saying that this isn’t the final answer, but just the first step in a long process. So why the hype? Why the mystery?
And where’s all that USDA and Congressional money? No money, no research. No research, no solution. No solution, no bees. But then, if this was the solution, there’d be no money, would there? Curious minds want to know what the heck’s going on. Find out (some of this) here, next week.

Kim Flottum is the editor of BeeCulture magazine.
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Old 10.16.2007, 02:13 PM   #36
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http://www.alternet.org/environment/65289/?page=1

What Was Behind the Honey Bee Wipeout?

By Gina Covina, Terrain
Posted on October 16, 2007, Printed on October 16, 2007
http://www.alternet.org/story/65289/


++++++++++
It's a rare beekeeper in the United States who can survive by selling honey. The trade loophole that has flooded this country with low-cost Chinese honey for the past ten years guaranteed that (fortunately for beekeepers, that hole has just been plugged by new federal tariff regulations). The only income remaining has been in pollination services. Alan Wilson's bees are rented out for almond pollination starting in February. After that they go south to the orange groves, then all the way to North Dakota where they make clover honey. Wilson's Central Valley location near Merced has little to offer bees over the dry summer months except roadside star thistle and the brief flowering of cantaloupes in August. Nearby agricultural chemicals are a concern, especially the defoliant used on cotton before harvest. Just the drift from the defoliant has taken the paint off Wilson's hives. Still, this year he plans to keep his bees closer to home where he can manage them more intensively and try to increase their numbers.
Every commercial beekeeper has different arrange-ments, but each involves long-distance trucking and the California almond crop. Almonds are entirely dependent on the seasonal importation of honeybees. Growers can't get crop insurance coverage unless they have at least two bee colonies per acre at almond blossom time; some growers use up to five colonies per acre for heavier yields. Over 800,000 Central Valley acres are planted in almond trees. As beekeeper Randy Oliver says, it is "monoculture at its absolute worst -- they don't allow one species of weed to grow": mile after mile of bare soil and almond trees. No native pollinators can survive on this wasted landscape to ease the honeybees' burden, and nothing lives to sustain bees before or after the almond bloom.

++++++++++++++==

Of all these factors, many beekeepers judge varroa mites the most consistently debilitating. But there's another weakening influence more obvious and more integral to the larger agricultural dilemma. It's the stressor Mussen calls the most important of all -- bee malnutrition. High-fructose corn syrup and soy protein are not any more nutritious for bees than they are for humans (see Spring 2007), and bees in transit and between pollination jobs often must subsist on nothing but these non-foods. Compounding the problem, we're talking genetically modified corn and soy, every cell of which contains a bacterial insecticide. Are bees not insects? US studies have indicated that Bt corn pollen does not kill healthy bees or brood reared on it, but a German study showed that Bt pollen led to "significantly stronger decline in the number of bees" in hives already weakened by varroa mites.
We do know that corn pollen in general is poor bee food, high in fiber and low in protein. The Midwest, up until now the country's best bee forage habitat, this year is being planted much more aggressively to GM corn as a source for ethanol -- aggressive meaning planting marginal areas and edges usually left to the asters and goldenrods that are high-quality pollen sources in late summer when bees need to raise the generation that will overwinter. Even when bees are out foraging for real nectar and non-GMO pollen, for much of the year they are likely to be ingesting a monocultured diet due to their use as pollinators for industrial-scale agriculture -- nothing but almond, then nothing but apple, then only watermelon. They're exposed to pesticides used on their forage crops as well. Oh -- and one more influence to factor into the equation -- very hot weather can damage the protein content of pollen, decreasing its food value for bees. Global warming is kicking our butts from more directions than we can comprehend.
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Old 10.28.2007, 09:58 PM   #37
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60 Minutes ran a piece tonight on colony collapse disorder and beekeepers losing their assets.
The segment seemed to point to a pesticide manufactured by Bayer Corporation that attacks the immune systems of bees as being one of the possible root causes of hive abandonment and the mysterious mass disappearance of bees. Research also indicates that the pesticide affects their ability to navigate and keeps them from being able to find their way back to their hives. So along with the poor health of bees in general due to a blanket effect of (other) pesticides, mites, malnutrution, and other factors, now many bees in essence have their own version of the AIDS virus with which to contend.

The story focused on one beekeeper in particular that maintains many, many colonies on farmlands and how he had to borrow several hundred thousand to keep his business going. It ended saying that if CCD occurs at the levels it did last year, then a lot of beekeepers will go bankrupt and that we can all expect fresh produce availability to dwindle and the price to as much as triple in the near future as a result.

I'm still gettin' a chuckle out of this thread title, tesla. Fucking haha classic:
bees dying, I warned you: Monsanto hates America
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Old 10.28.2007, 10:17 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by tesla69
On 6 January 2005, Monsanto (USA) was fined US$ 1.5 million for bribing government officials in Indonesia to avoid a decree that demanded an environmental risk assessment for the Bt cotton Bollgard. The US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) charged Monsanto with illicit payments in violation with the Foreign Corruption Act (FCAP), with bribery including US$ 50,000 in cash to repeal an decree requiring an environmental risk assessment, falsifying books and invoices, and “questionable payments” such as for the purchase of land and the design and construction of a house in the name of the wife of a senior Ministry of Agriculture official. Such payments of approximately US$ 700,000 were made to at least 140 current and former Indonesian government officials and their family members from 1997 to 2002 (SEC 2005).
Monsanto has agreed to pay US$ 500,000 to settle the bribe charge and other related violations.

what? ...your honor, if i gave you a half a million dollars, would that "take care of" these bribery charges?
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Old 10.29.2007, 08:56 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by atari 2600
I'm still gettin' a chuckle out of this thread title, tesla. Fucking haha classic:
bees dying, I warned you: Monsanto hates America

good you understand then the most important thing is to pay attention to me. You are doing that very well. Please revive all my old threads! THANKS FOR PAYING ATTENTION TO ME ATARIANA!!!!

There are several different THEORIES for why the bees are dying, the CBS-corporate sourced theory you repeat is just one of several, as you can see from my other posts to this thread.

HA Atari is just demonstrating his loyalty to Monsanto everyone! HA LOL! Atari2600 hates small farmers but loves huge agriculture congolmerates!! HA HA HA! thats why he has to defend them against my posts.
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Old 10.29.2007, 09:02 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by tesla69
good you understand then the most important thing is to pay attention to me. You are doing that very well. Please revive all my old threads! THANKS FOR PAYING ATTENTION TO ME ATARIANA!!!!

There are several different THEORIES for why the bees are dying, the CBS-corporate sourced theory you repeat is just one of several, as you can see from my other posts to this thread.

HA Atari is just demonstrating his loyalty to Monsanto everyone! HA LOL! Atari2600 hates small farmers but loves huge agriculture congolmerates!! HA HA HA! thats why he has to defend them against my posts.

Suddenly you're writing that I'm a fed who works for Monsanto and hates farmers? Go fuck yourself, tesla69. You win the prize for biggest shithead. You write everything out of your ass. I mean, really, man, what the fuck?

CBS may be wrong, but the story seemed like it added some new info, that's all. Why am I the only one that cannot add new info to the thread without being unfairly berated?

Excuse me everyone, but while I was watching the 60 Minutes segment and they were showing the abandoned hives I thought to myself "bees must have bee-AIDS now" and sure enough, like a minute later, they were talking about their immune systems being shot.

And the story didn't excuse Monsanto, they just weren't specifically mentioned. The pesticide that Bayer makes (forget the name of it...so I'll google) was only cited as part of a new theory. The sources on the show were also saying that bees, in general, are in poor health due to insecticides and pesticides and I'm sure Monsanto must make some of those.

google
bayer pesticide bees
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=bayer+pesticide+bees&btnG=Google+Se arch
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