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Old 06.11.2018, 02:29 PM   #1
noisereductions
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recently Symbols brought this up in another thread and I asked about it a bit there, BUT I've been thinking a lot about just OWNING too much stuff. Partly that comes from the fact that my wife and I are planning to sell our home soon so we can move to the town that we used to be in. And probably we'll have a slightly smaller house there.



But it's not just that. I have a tendency to go overboard with my interests. I'm always collecting SOMETHING. And then I get to a point where I'm like "why do I need all this?" and usually I don't.


I've gotten way better, though. For instance I very rarely buy a movie anymore. We have Netflix and Hulu and Amazon Prime and cable TV. So I mean, that's plenty of options right there. I don't like to even rent movies. The exception is going out to movies a few times a year, but that's more about the experience of going out. Not of owning something. I've also come to realize that the local library has a pretty great selection of movies to borrow as well.


Video games are my biggest hobby, but I've dialed it back over the years and currently my only console is an Xbox One. I'm quite happy with it. My main thing is I try to only buy a game if I'll be playing it right away. No hoarding. And I'm trying to get rid of games if I feel I'm done playing them. I'm also considering looking into Game Pass which is basically Netflix of Xbox Games. $10/mo gives access to a bunch of games - which might even encourage me to buy less.


Books, I don't really buy a lot of. There's the library. And kindle sales.


My issue right now is CD's which is stupid mostly. I'll say that part of me kind of feels like "oh this stuff is important to me" and to some degree is like a physical thing on a shelf which I feel like sort of 'defines' me. But again, taht's kind of silly I know. I'd bet that 70% of the CD's I own are streaming on Spotify which - guess what? - we're already paying for.



I've read that some folks collect because of an unrealized existential crisis. As if building up something to leave behind is an unonscious thing. I don't know.


In general I think I want to own less shit, and enjoy the shit I own more. But I do recognize I have problems with both (A) curbing HOW MUCH stuff I buy - like I enable myself. For years I only collecting SY CD's. But once I got to a point of having 'everything' I needed Nirvana CD's, and then okay, just all my favorites from the 90's, and then well, the 2000's too, and then well every band I've seen live, and then....... it's the whole you can't eat just one potato chip thing, and (B) getting rid of stuff. It's so hard to do that. Do I get rid of just the stuff on Spotify? Keep the rare stuff? Keep just SY? Get rid of EVERYTHING? How to I deal?


Please feel free to discuss the concept of minimal living in general, or shoot me some specific ideas.
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Old 06.11.2018, 03:09 PM   #2
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FRIEND HI!

rather than rehash a lot that has been said already lemme recommend a few things that have helped me in the road to material detachment

oh don't get me wrong i still eat meat and drink good gin haa haaa haa. i'm not a monk

but less clutter is HUUUUGE. huge. huge.

#1 leo babauta's zen habits blog. the guy is all about simplifying. and no, he's not a monk-- he's raised 6 kids with his wife, so... you'd think more clutter huh? but he's managed it simply.

#2 that japanese lady with the crazy animism. what's the name of it. the "spark joy" business that was fashionable years ago. anyway she's a shintoist so she believes everything has a spirit (e.g., see miyazaki's "spirited away"). and she's also very fucking annoying with her talk of "cute clothes" and shit like that. it's a very girly book. BUT at the core of it if you know how to listen for comprehension and not get lost being hypercritical there are important lessons there. even if you're not an animist or care for "cute clothes" (blech).

#3 speaking of clothes look into the concept of the capsule wardrobe. originally invented by donna karan i think? for women. but unfashionable dudes like me can also profit from the idea.

#4 i've lived in a one-room cabin but i would not fucking live in a "tiny house." AVOID "tiny house" documentaries, which are shit about stupid millennials navel gazing and not actually living in a tiny fucking house. but ok, interesting concept nevertheless. i'd look online for people who are actually doing it, and also people who do RVing cuz it's a similar concept.

#5 look at the decluttr app. they will buy your shit at cutrate prices. if you're not hard up, not trying to make the most of your possessions, might be worth it just because they pay you to rid you of your headache.

#6 you mention "leave behind" look at "swedish death cleaning" which has been in the media recently. not to be gloomy but, in a way, we're all dying.

#7 on amazon (maybe elsewhere too) there's a movie "the minimalists" which ties with the site the minimalists (.com). it's not a great movie, it's mostly about feelings, and confessionals, and shit like that, but some sights might be helpful.

#8 looking at buying houses consider that a house is not a great investment (outside of bubbles it generally keeps with or falls behind inflation) and that having a smaller house can make you rich from what you save in taxes, energy, furnishings, etc. i can post more about this later but if i alt-tab what i wrote might just disappear.

#9 if you're on amazon and watch "the minimalists" the service will show you other movies like that one. there's one about this german dude that's bananas.

#10.... i'll go get you some links about owning a house as an investment. which you can discuss with your lady. cuz with all of these things it's good to be on the same page with your partner.

oh, #11 - watch "hoarders" some time. i watched one episode and holy fuck so sad.
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Old 06.11.2018, 03:17 PM   #3
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thanks for your feedback dude.



I should say that yeah, I'm not aiming for like living with nothing. I don't want a "tiny house," I don't want to give up good food and drink. I don't want to buy NOTHING. I just want to stop collecting shit that I don't need to collecting. I don't want to be so material, y'know?


#2 - Mary Kondo? Yeah I read her book a couple of years ago actually. And I'm pretty on board with the whole "does this bring me joy now?" way of thinking. I can't be as hardcore as her but she has some ideas I like.


#5 - yeah I've used Decluttr recently. I sent them 3 boxes of CD's when I made the step of clearing out my hip hop collecting. They do'nt pay great, but they pay SOMETHING. I'd generally keep using them for non "rare/valuable" CD's.


#8 - the house sitch for us is not necessarily about an investment, other than investing in our happiness. Which is to say the house we live in now is beautiful, but not in the town we are happiest to be in. It's now more important for us to just live in the place we want to be even if that means we might be buying less house (that may mean slightly smaller, or just needs some more work). But that might not even be necessary. We'll see.


Anyway, yeah to reiterate I just want to get out of the mindset of buying so much unecessary stuff.
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Old 06.11.2018, 03:21 PM   #4
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on homes, small homes, etc

why your house is a terrible investment
http://jlcollinsnh.com/2013/05/29/wh...le-investment/

trent of the simple dollar on not mortgaging your life
https://www.thesimpledollar.com/how-...-without-debt/

if you're still buying, smaller than average is still better
https://www.forbes.com/sites/trulia/.../#4c8a9b1559f8

anyway there's tons more about the benefits of smaller homes without going to extremes. so yeah, less stuff = less real estate cost.

when you consider that you have to pay rent or mortgage to 'house" your stuff... you realize you don't own it, it owns you. and yeah since paying mortgage is not a great investment (see link #1) don't count that the extra expense will return to you some day.

i hope that helps! let me know if you have questions about specifics.

----

ETA: i was collecting these links while you wrote your previous post, so-- sorry if i'm rehashing something you already mentioned.

you move sounds like a good one! location location location. ha ha ha.
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Old 06.11.2018, 03:28 PM   #5
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ps if you don't want to buy unnecessary stuff but the money is burning a hole in your pocket start looking at early retirement/ financial independence blogs.

because if you don't know where to throw your money at, and end up buying shit "becuz", theN throwing it at a low-cost index fund would be one of the very best things you could ever do.

in other words, giving your money a different "project" might be what you need instead of being spent randomly. am i making sense? yeah? "what do i want to do with this cash?" "fund my goals" therefore: define those goals.

the stock market is going to tank very soon for a while and that will be the best opportunity to start shopping. not... individual stocks which are a form of gambling. but index funds that beat managed funds consistently.

ok! cool. yes.
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Old 06.11.2018, 03:45 PM   #6
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here's a decent list of various FIRE blogs. some have ceased publication (e.g. ERE) but are still good reading:

https://wallethacks.com/best-fire-fi...irement-blogs/
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Old 06.11.2018, 03:59 PM   #7
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I feel confident in saying there is another thread like this somewhere else on SYG???

Nothing purges your crap like rising floodwaters : )

Losing our home and 85-90% of the stuff inside brings a sobering reality about learning to live with less. We purchased our new home in February and it has soooo much more storage than our old home, but we’ve agreed to not fill our new home with stuff. So-far-so-good, but it’s only been five months......hope I can say the same in five years.

We are currently NOT doing Direct TV, opting instead to use Netflix and Sling TV. I’m giving serious consideration to no longer doing vinyl. I’m not getting rid of my record player so I’m sure I’ll purchase an LP on occasion, but I don’t think I’ll have 10 LP’s five years from now. I’ve mostly been purchasing cassette releases and will continue to do this!

I admire you and your wife’s decision to try and live with less. I seriously doubt either one of you will regret it in the years to come.
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Old 06.11.2018, 05:38 PM   #8
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to go deeper, I'm not doing any of this for financial reasons. We budget well, and don't over spend. I read lots of financial stuff and that's not what this is about. What I'm talking about is issues with my own personality I want to shake. I'm pretty obsessive. So I can't buy one CD by a band I like... I need to buy everything they've recorded. And then that becomes stupid to me because the majority of it is on Spotify which I already have access to. It's that way of just feeling a need to kind of have THINGS that for whatever reason emotionally make me feel like I SHOULD have to ... I don't know? Prove soemthing? Like "hey look what a big fan I am! I bought all this shit." I'd like to just stop be a collector of anything - which has nothing to do with money, and mroe so with just wanting my psyche to be cool with not needing physical things to present myself. If any of this makes sense?
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Old 06.11.2018, 07:41 PM   #9
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oh! yeah.

i’m not a psychologist so that part of things i’ve no idea. i’ve had plenty therapy though, lol (and it helped, yeah).

i’ve never had that problem, and since my knowledge of these things is empirical and not theoretical, i really don’t know.

maybe you’re part ferengi!

but yes i get it. you’re attaching yourself to your things. so— maybe read some philosophy?

maybe find meaning in actions not objects? you know: have a sense of mission. make your life be about something... bigger than you? a “cause” or whatever.

what you’re saying sounds to me like you feel the need to make and present your Self (not “yourself” but Your Self) through consumption. right? “owning objects that represent x makes me part of x”

so, rather than focus on fighting consumption... maybe think how you could leave it behind? find more important things to do and think about? transcend rather than oppose, if you will. “go high”

just a guess this might work.... but i’m not a telepath!

happy to discuss the matter though.

eta: check out maslow’s hierarchy of needs
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Old 06.11.2018, 08:02 PM   #10
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Yeah you get it. And I have actually been going through a lot of things that feel bigger which is probably what's making me question these kinds of habits. Like now they don't really sarisfy me as much so what's the point.
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Old 06.11.2018, 09:43 PM   #11
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Bytor, also I feel for you. Your situation was forced on you and that sucks. I mean I'm glad you're happy with where you are now but sorry it took something like that to get you there
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Old 06.11.2018, 09:46 PM   #12
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Also I think I've learned the older I get the more I tend to latch on to the things of my youth. Maybe not good or bad. But I can appreciate those things without physical "proof" of course.
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Old 06.11.2018, 10:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noisereductions
Yeah you get it. And I have actually been going through a lot of things that feel bigger which is probably what's making me question these kinds of habits. Like now they don't really sarisfy me as much so what's the point.

well congrats on moving past the fetishist consumerism that fuels the mainstream

the constant notion that buying product x y or z will make us “complete” and happy and all that shit.

the magical object that will make us whole! only to be replaced by the next trend, without which you’ll be out of step, and in need of another magical object, etc.

lololololololo

anyway, yes. just make sure that the “bigger” things aren’t shit like... cars... watches... expensive jewelry... pricey electronics. more of the same bullshit but “for adults.” the kind of ads that appear on gq or playboy magazine or... qvc lmao. toys for grownups. toys! LOL. LOLOLOLOLOL. a terrible ideology.

if you look at the maslow pyramid of needs you’ll see that at the top depending on the version there’s self-realization and self-transcendence. so instead of being another hamster in the consumer wheel you can now look at developing whatever gifts you were born with, and looking past your own needs into the wider world. yes? getting involved with that is a good thing. “making the world a better place” or however you want to put it.

i’d say again don’t worry so much about how to get rid of the toys, the toys will fall away as you concern yourself with more important things and a sense of self that comes not from objects but your... “mission”, whatever that might be. yes?

alright dude— best wishes with that! really looking forward to hear more good news from you.
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Old 06.12.2018, 08:20 PM   #14
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If you enjoy collecting things, why not? Who does it hurt?
It sounds like you are not hoarding. And you are not spending money you can't afford.

I managed to sell a box of books today for $20. It was a lot of work dragging the boxes to Mercer Street.
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Old 06.12.2018, 08:34 PM   #15
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My wife kind of said what you did Tesla. I'm not a hoarder, not spending money I shouldn't. I think it's just something that bothers me sometimes that I feel a need to collect anything.
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Old 06.13.2018, 10:26 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noisereductions
My wife kind of said what you did Tesla. I'm not a hoarder, not spending money I shouldn't. I think it's just something that bothers me sometimes that I feel a need to collect anything.

the question though is DO YOU USE IT? if you have use for it and actually use it (not “i might need this torn blanket some day”) then it’s totally valid. e.g. i have several types of coffeemaker and i use them all regularly. there isn’t one that sits there in the back of a shelf. they all “work” and serve a function. it’s not a “collection” that “represents’ anything it’s just tools i use.

some collecting is interesting/good/useful in the sense that it provides hard to find information about a particular interest, like, say, fossils, or meteorite samples, or (yes yes) books. many museums have started as private collections.

but there is a difference between a collection that’s like a little museum and a pile of stuff that sits unused in a drawer taking up space and you “have it”.

like that vegas casino guy who keeps these van gogh paintings locked up in his vault. what is the point of that. “i have it”. so? but anyway...

the only art collector i find respectable was dr. barnes who made it with a purpose and studied it and whose collection got stolen by the city of philadelphia after he died. it was a huge teaching tool for artists and historians and it got broken up in the name of tourism.

anyway there was this documentary years ago about this old man who spends his life collecting records. he claims these are important to the history of civilization and what not. he says he’s spent his life earnings on them and they’re worth 4 million bucks or something.

now he’s old and can’t pay for the storage where he keeps them and he’s going blind or something (i recall vaguely). and wants his 4 million bucks! but the market is only willing to give him 50 grand because that’s what it’s worth.

the documentary does not understand markets and therefore takes the side of the old blind man, to no avail. reality is what it is in spite of wishful thinking. those records are a big chunk of nostalgia that require a lot of labor and nothing more. what the old man paid through his life does not matter.

anyway there’s a fine line between collecting and hoarding, and i got rid of my hoard when i realized i didnt need to have special furniture and real estate for reading materials that i a) did not need immediately at hand, and b) could get elsewhere. i’m all about donating books now instead of keeping them. circulation is a good thing.

i suppose with music it’s the same thing. used to be you HAD TO have records and tapes if you wanted to listen to music that wasn’t on the radio. so record collections were important. but technologies have changed. all the music i need fits into my pocket.

everyone is different, but for me form follows function, so if there’s no function for it... i say thanks and goodbye to my old friends and send them out into the world. that way i can function better and have more free time actually. and free space! and with less furniture, moving house for a better job or a better life is a piece of cake. so many pluses. there’s a huge sense of freedom not being weighted down or having to clean shit.

plus, things are not people, so, for example, i don’t need my grandfather’s relics to remember him.

things are not people. i think that’s a good one to remember because we often feel like discarding object is like throwing away people. it’s not. things are not people. things are not people.
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Old 06.14.2018, 06:26 AM   #17
tesla69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noisereductions
My wife kind of said what you did Tesla. I'm not a hoarder, not spending money I shouldn't. I think it's just something that bothers me sometimes that I feel a need to collect anything.


Its the Buddhists who say desire is the root of all problems. But it doesn't sound like its taken over your lives, its just an activity you can enjoy.

You certainly aren't the guy in Brooklyn who owns 2 houses, one for his record collection and one for him.

I'm on a round of deep postcard buying this spring and adding to that collection. I've been selling off some records, but that is really hard to do. I don't know why I would keep a record I will never listen to again. But they seem to be partof my self-identity, bringing back strong association memories.


Some people collect cats.
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Old 06.14.2018, 08:53 PM   #18
EVOLghost
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Woah dood..you got rid of your video game collection? Nuts! Cool.

Anyway...if that XBOX gamepass is anything like the PS4 and streams the game, I’d be cautious. I tested the PS4 one since they had Shadow of the Colossus on there. It wasn’t as bad as I thought it would’ve been...but you have to be sure to have a pretty dope connection otherwise it can get bad....
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Old 06.25.2018, 09:50 AM   #19
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with the killing in Chinese ADRs we made, we just got this

 


 


 


we were looking for a newer, better mpg coupe. The Lexus hybrid was a little high priced at right around 100K$, so this will have to do.
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