Go Back   Sonic Youth Gossip > Non-Sonics
Reload this Page The comic book thread of comic books
Register FAQ Members List Mark Forums Read

 
Thread Tools
Old 11.22.2016, 10:18 AM   #81
Severian
invito al cielo
 
Severian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,673
Severian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's asses
huh? me?
Severian is offline   |QUOTE AND REPLY|
Old 11.22.2016, 10:57 AM   #82
noisereductions
invito al cielo
 
noisereductions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 15,920
noisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's asses
Quote:
Originally Posted by Severian
huh? me?

I mean... you would be the guy to answer Batman questions. Unless you've got amnesia?
noisereductions is offline   |QUOTE AND REPLY|
Old 11.22.2016, 11:32 AM   #83
Severian
invito al cielo
 
Severian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,673
Severian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's asses
Ok, I don't have a ton of time right now so this might suck.

First of all there are a few Batman TPB's that are just universally revered in the comic book community. Moreso than any other character, really. And they're reverted for very good reason. So let's look at a coupe of those absolute classics...

• Batman: Year One - This is an excellent place to start even though it came out 60 years into Batman'a lifespan. A lot of Miller comics become divisive because of that artis's distinct "fuck it, let's go crazy" art style (see Dark Knight Strikes Agaib). Now, while I actually love that style, Year One is much more story-based, and since Miller only writes (leaving art to Dave Mazzucchelli), the look is cleaner and lends itself to the story very well. The overall look is a modern throwback to the 1930s, taking cues from the short black and white films of that era.
It also expands on the early chapter of Batman's career and his life prior to becoming "The Dark Knight," and it gives the reader a nice impression of Gotham as a whole, not just Batman. To that end, we get a lot of Jim Gordon, and his storyline is the backbone of the book. If you ever thought Gordon wasn't interesting, wasn't important, was just a fat guy (Burton movies) or a fat guy with an inexcplicable heavy Irish accent ('60s tv series) this TPB shows you that he's actually one of the best and strongest supporting characters in the Bat-canon. Second only to Alfred, really. You see his set-up as a complex hero-- a man so good and so honest that he will absolutely FUCK SHIT UP if backed against a wall. This take on Gordon is often missing from movies and film (though Gary Oldman nailed it, and the portrayal on Gotham actually does it justice very well), and it sets up a very strong parallel between Gordon and Batman. They are really more alike than either man realizes. Essentially Gordon is the alternate universe Batman, where the army and law enforcement took the place of a mask and ninja training, and where an attempt was made to be a "normal" family man. (Conclusion: maybe Gordon should have just been a vigilante.)

• The Man Who Falls (1989, single-shot, from DC's Secret Orgins) & The Man Who Laughs (2005) - The Man Who Falls is a great little story that should be read alongside Year One. Put them together and you have the plot for Batman Begins. Very enlightening, and quite underrated.
The Man Who Laughs looks back to the Batman's first Joker tangle and mythologizes a bit, painting a really powerful image of the feud between these characters.

• A Death in the Family & The Killing Joke -
So if you're going to dive into any Batman arcs from the past 25 years, you need to have some familiarity with these two titles. They may not necessarily inform everything thereafter (there are a lot of relaunches and sidestories and different timelines where these events either didn't take place or aren't discussed) these titles certainly weave themselves into a LOT of it.
Both from 1988 (Death... ran from '88-'89 and was a big ass event for DC, maybe you've heard the stories about fans getting to choose Robin's fate?) these comics helped usher in the Batman and Joker we know today. Understanding Joker mythology is almost as important to reading Bat-titles as Batman's own. A lot of people thank The Dark Knight Returns with giving us the darker edgier Batman of the Burton films, and even the Nolan films, but that story was never canon, and it really only lives in the universe of its two sequels. THESE two titles are really what not only pushed Batman into the darkness, but established the Joker as one of the worst and most formidable villains in all of villaindome.
Of course DITF deals with the death of the Jason Todd's Robin (though "death" is of course open to interpretation in comics ). Todd was going down a really fucked up path and was beginning to show signs of mental illness or outright sociopathy. But he didn't deserve what happened to him in this title. Yikes.
Killing Joke is obviously super famous and I'm honestly not sure why sometimes. It goes a little overboard, beyond even the darkest incarnations of the Joker in film, and it was never meant to be canon, but somehow it's been assimilated, and a whole facet of the Bat-world is built on the events in this comic. Anyway, neither of these are favorites of mine, but they are essential reading.

• Arkham Asylum (A Serious House on Serious Earth): one the biggest selling graphic novel of all time, this Grant Morrison/Dave Mckean joint will make you want to read more Batman perhaps more than any other story. Visually, it's stunning. Thematically, it doesn't get much more weird or intense than this. You get to see the world through the Joker's eyes! You follow Batman into a besieged Arkham and you encounter a handful of villains at their most fucking depraved. Its not central to any overarching story, but the TPB will, I believe, give you a lot to look forward to in other titles (sometimes people only go with Joker stories, thinking Hatter, Riddler, etc. will be boring... this clears that up nicely by showing you just how terrifying even lame villains like Killer Croc can be in Batman's world.)

• Batman: Hush - This one is honestly more of a visual pleasure than an intellectual one, but the story gets good and backs up the art in the end.

• Batman: New 52... Just pick up New 52 Batman and read. It's very good.

• Haunted Knight, The Long Halloween & Dark Victory (the Loeb/Sale "trilogy") -
Though Haunted Knigt is really just an anthology piece with no bearing on the story to follow, it introduces Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale as one of the best duos to ever work on Bats. Get through Haunted Knight, and Long Halloween/Dark Victory are virtually as satisfying as any movie. Imagine every Gotham character, in one really long arch, with no cheese. That's how these stories play out. (Follow up with Catwoman: Paris also by Loeb and Sale)

• Court of the Owls - This is one of the best Bat archs of the last several years, plain and simple. The Owls will no doubt be a go-to for future adaptations, as they prove to be an extremely formative force with an iron grip on Gotham. Plus, they date back (in retrospect) to Gotham pre-Batman. Kind of like Bane, the Court is a foe Batman underestimated and was utterly unprepared for.
Severian is offline   |QUOTE AND REPLY|
Old 11.22.2016, 11:39 AM   #84
Severian
invito al cielo
 
Severian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,673
Severian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's asses
I tried to steer clear or non-canon, one-off, alt-reality and Elseworkds/Shadow of the Bat type stuff for the purposes of these recommendations because they're either for folks who have already read Bats, or folks who don't care. That includes Miller's Dark Knight Returns (denonrail already has it) and the sequels.

Still, there's a lot missing that I would recommend if I had more time, so I'll try to add more later.
Severian is offline   |QUOTE AND REPLY|
Old 11.22.2016, 12:18 PM   #85
demonrail666
invito al cielo
 
demonrail666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Black Lagoon
Posts: 16,579
demonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's asses
That's absolutely fantastic! Sincere thanks. I'll definitely start with Year One.

Was really interested to see what you thought of Arkham Asylum, which I've never read but I'm generally into Morrison. Did you like All-Star Superman?
demonrail666 is offline   |QUOTE AND REPLY|
Old 11.22.2016, 12:19 PM   #86
noisereductions
invito al cielo
 
noisereductions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 15,920
noisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's asses
great list.

(Though I am one of those folks that adores The Killing Joke, and have re-read it and watched the animated movie numerous times).
noisereductions is offline   |QUOTE AND REPLY|
Old 11.22.2016, 03:37 PM   #87
noisereductions
invito al cielo
 
noisereductions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 15,920
noisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's asses
oh and I totally agree w/ Sev about Gordon and how awesome his portrayal is on Gotham.
noisereductions is offline   |QUOTE AND REPLY|
Old 11.22.2016, 03:51 PM   #88
demonrail666
invito al cielo
 
demonrail666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Black Lagoon
Posts: 16,579
demonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's asses
How important are the Detective stories to the whole Gotham universe?
demonrail666 is offline   |QUOTE AND REPLY|
Old 11.23.2016, 12:12 AM   #89
Severian
invito al cielo
 
Severian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,673
Severian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's asses
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
How important are the Detective stories to the whole Gotham universe?

Detective Comics overlaps with and bounces ideas back and forth with the main Batman all the time, so... potentially just as important.

Batman's first appearance was in Detective Comics (though with specific regard to your question, Gotham wasn't a thing then... it was just New York), and some of the classic stories have run in Detective Conics or through Detective Comics and Batman and other Bat-titles.

It's as important as Action Comics is to Superman.
Severian is offline   |QUOTE AND REPLY|
Old 11.23.2016, 07:59 AM   #90
demonrail666
invito al cielo
 
demonrail666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Black Lagoon
Posts: 16,579
demonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's asses
I just picked up Batman: Year One, so I'll probably read that today. I think I'll leave Detective to the Rebirth TBPs, when they're published.
demonrail666 is offline   |QUOTE AND REPLY|
Old 11.23.2016, 08:16 AM   #91
noisereductions
invito al cielo
 
noisereductions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 15,920
noisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's asses
I'll be heading to the comic shop tonight. Here's today's new releases: http://www.comiclist.com/index.php

Sev: You gonna Marvel it up today?
noisereductions is offline   |QUOTE AND REPLY|
Old 11.23.2016, 10:40 AM   #92
Severian
invito al cielo
 
Severian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,673
Severian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's asses
Quote:
Originally Posted by noisereductions
I'll be heading to the comic shop tonight. Here's today's new releases: http://www.comiclist.com/index.php

Sev: You gonna Marvel it up today?

Maybe not today.
Work has been absolutely kicking my ass since the election, and I'm going to have to work well into the night just to give myself the freedom to have a Thanksgiving.

Also, there is no comic store where I live. Not a real one. Couple book stores that carry a handful, but it's mostly DC. This is what I get for relocating to a small town for a job when I've only previously lived in moderate to large cities.

BUT... if I get enough work done and get on the road to see my family at a reasonable time, I will do some iBooks comic shopping over the holiday.
Severian is offline   |QUOTE AND REPLY|
Old 11.23.2016, 10:54 AM   #93
Severian
invito al cielo
 
Severian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,673
Severian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's asses
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
I just picked up Batman: Year One, so I'll probably read that today. I think I'll leave Detective to the Rebirth TBPs, when they're published.

Well, the thing with TPBs is that you don't have to worry as much about the different titles. Many of them collect all, or a chunk of, the issues in an arc, even if that arc came from multiple titles. Otherwise, they tend to stick to just one story, and often provide a list of where to look for the continuation of that story.

So you might be reading a Batman TPB that pulls content exclusively from Detective Comics ("Batman: the Black Mirror") or from another Bat-title like Legends of the Dark Knight (Batman: "Prey")

Honestly I would advise against deliberately avoiding Detective Comics stories if you're trying to get into Batman. I might even suggest approaching the two titles equally. Batman and Detective Comics are the two long-standing, "permanent" Bat titles. I'm not sure why you would want to put off 77 years of comic in order to read another with which that comic is inexorably linked.

Unless I'm not understanding what your saying?
Severian is offline   |QUOTE AND REPLY|
Old 11.23.2016, 11:00 AM   #94
Severian
invito al cielo
 
Severian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,673
Severian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's asses
Are you worried about the fact that Detective Comics was rebooted and changed in 2011, then changed back for Rebirth?

I wouldn't let that bother you unless you are planning to only read stories from the past decade. Prior to that, Detective Comics was continuous and largely super fucking awesome for a whole lotta years.
Severian is offline   |QUOTE AND REPLY|
Old 11.23.2016, 11:54 AM   #95
demonrail666
invito al cielo
 
demonrail666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Black Lagoon
Posts: 16,579
demonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's asses
I was just talking about the rebirth comics. I get the individual batman ones as they're released but with detective I think I'll just wait till they're collected in paperback volumes, mainly just to save money. I'm certainly not writing detective off so if there's any tpb titles that you consider essential, please let me know.
demonrail666 is offline   |QUOTE AND REPLY|
Old 11.23.2016, 12:11 PM   #96
noisereductions
invito al cielo
 
noisereductions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 15,920
noisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's asses
Quote:
Originally Posted by Severian
Also, there is no comic store where I live. Not a real one. Couple book stores that carry a handful, but it's mostly DC. This is what I get for relocating to a small town for a job when I've only previously lived in moderate to large cities.

ah, that sucks. I have one right near my work, and then two that are like 10-15 mins from my house so I tend to have good access.

When I first got back into comics, I was mostly buying them digitally through Kindle or Google Play Books apps. But ultimately I found more gratification from having the physical books. Though there's no denying the ease of use and instant gratification of digital comics. If I didn't have stores near me, I'd probably be heavily into digital comics still.
noisereductions is offline   |QUOTE AND REPLY|
Old 11.23.2016, 06:10 PM   #97
Severian
invito al cielo
 
Severian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,673
Severian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's asses
So I basically just said "fuck this" and left work at 5:30 because everyone else everywhere had, and I'm not paid enough to be an entire holiday editorial department, even for a couple hours.
I went to the lame ass bookstore looking specifically for Marvel, and they had NOTHING. Just some Rebirth stuff and some Doctor Who.

So I left with Batman Rebirth 10 and 11, and accomplished nothing.

Bright side is I have this badass cover in print now:

 
Severian is offline   |QUOTE AND REPLY|
Old 11.23.2016, 07:37 PM   #98
noisereductions
invito al cielo
 
noisereductions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 15,920
noisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's asses
aw man. At least you tried.

I got...

X-Men '92 #6-9... I just finished 5 this week, which ended the first TPB. So I'm carrying on. #9 just came out today so I'll be all caught up.

Extraordinary X-Men #10 & 11... I'm only missing #12 to complete the second TPB.

Amazing-Spider Man Annual... came out today. I don't know, sounded weird. One of the stories is written by Wayne Brady. I like weird one-shots.

Mockingbird #1... just wanted to check this series out.

TMNT #62... as I read #61 last week. Current issue is #64.
noisereductions is offline   |QUOTE AND REPLY|
Old 11.25.2016, 04:53 PM   #99
noisereductions
invito al cielo
 
noisereductions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 15,920
noisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's assesnoisereductions kicks all y'all's asses
 


I read a few things today, but damn, I want to talk about Mockingbird #1. This issue was fantastic. Chelsea Cain killed it. I am so totally looking forward to catching up on this series now. She gave Mockingbird a narrative tone that reminds me of what I loved about Jessica Jones. This is legit.
noisereductions is offline   |QUOTE AND REPLY|
Old 11.25.2016, 06:31 PM   #100
Severian
invito al cielo
 
Severian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,673
Severian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's assesSeverian kicks all y'all's asses
I re-read the first few issues of Batman: Court of the Owls over the holiday.

Really... like REALLY strong story. If Christopher Nolan had needed inspiration for a fourth movie, Owls could have provided it. He could have avoided silly/hard to pull off bad guys like Riddler and Penguin and maybe done a Court of Owls/Hugo Strange combo. Where Batman's all like "this is my city, I've done it all, beaten everyone back, I am Gotham!" Only to learn that this secret organization has had him by the balls since he was a kid.

Man that would make for a grrat cinema arc. Gotham is going something Owls-based right now, but it's taking a lot of detours.

Maybe... some day.. when all this Zach Snyder shit is over... The next director to take on Batman won't be interested in blockbusters AT ALL, (maybe Jonathan Glazer, of "Under the Skin" semi-fame?) and will do something really special and fucked up with it.
Severian is offline   |QUOTE AND REPLY|
15
> »
-->

Thread Tools

All content 2006 Sonic Youth