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Old 06.26.2016, 04:27 PM   #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
Out of respect to history and accuracy, I am very very careful around words like "fascist" and "Nazi." (I prefer "draconian" or just "harsh.") But holy shit the shoe is starting to fit a little too comfortably. This isn't funny. I can't think of anything more serious.

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Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to evollove again.


That's why I posted the link to "the diagram":

 
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Old 06.28.2016, 01:07 AM   #302
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The Labour party elected a Marxist dinosaur to lead them and now the party's in meltdown since the people decided to get out of the sinking Reich that is the EU. Had to laugh on reading about the ridiculous geek from England who wanted to assassinate Trump. Maybe he should've used one of the robots he bought from geek show Robot Wars.
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Old 06.28.2016, 11:06 AM   #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
she became the voice of the people when she won the nomination to run against crazy fucking trump.


She's the voice of the corporate media, the transnational economy and the oligarchs. Americans are not first in her policy.

Trump IS an oligarch. He seems to understand there is a moat around the castle for a reason. He seems to understand the international treaties like NAFTA are shit for americans. NAFTA helped a small, lets say 1%, get rich, while the rest of us scramble for shitty amazon corporation style shit jobs.
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Old 06.28.2016, 12:10 PM   #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tesla69
She's the voice of the corporate media, the transnational economy and the oligarchs. Americans are not first in her policy.

Trump IS an oligarch. He seems to understand there is a moat around the castle for a reason. He seems to understand the international treaties like NAFTA are shit for americans. NAFTA helped a small, lets say 1%, get rich, while the rest of us scramble for shitty amazon corporation style shit jobs.

yes, i understand this. i do have a problem with hillary to a large extent. i have said this elsewhere--that the ascent of trump is fueled by the corporatocrat dismissal of popular concerns. these concerns are of course real, and both democrats and republicans have ignored them or swept them under the rug systematically.

technology and globalization are destroying working- and middle-class jobs. this is a real issue no doubt. bernie sanders and trump both capitalized on this for their campaigns, trump won his side and bernie lost his.

the reason bernie didn't win is not just that "hilary is evil" but that the democratic party has other factions and figures to address those problems. there is a large liberal wing. my money is on elizabeth warren being the new bernie. she's fucking great and has the right track record.

the republicans on the other hand are a bunch of supply-side lunatics with a record of economic policy failure. you can't tax-cut your way into prosperity. look at the fucking kansas disaster. so, trump is practically the only one in his party to embrace this populist rage-- hence his victory.

but if you think trump is going to be the true champion of the people, and save your job, you're fucking dreaming. he's just going to seduce you, use you, fuck you in the ass until he's satisfied, and then discard you, as he does with everything. just look at fucking trump university or his many bankrupt casinos. mega-fucking-swindle. he takes it to another level.

when he fails to save you, as he's doomed to do, he's going to instead blame it on foreigners, minorities, other countries, losers, whatever, because he's constitutionally unable to accept responsibility for his many extensive fuckups. he'd rather tear the country apart than admit failure. in his mind he's always great and it's everybody else's fault and if he can't handle it he'll just quit and start trouble elsewhere. like his many bankrupt businesses. he'll fuel the flames of social strife, incite racial massacres, and leave your ass hanging over the abyss while he goes live in the cayman islands or whatever his jet takes him once the country descends into chaos.

but okay, if you think he's a champion of the people and not an snake oil salesman of the worst kind then sure thing vote for him as it's your right.
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Old 06.28.2016, 12:30 PM   #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
my money is on elizabeth warren being the new bernie. she's fucking great and has the right track record.

No one is incorruptible.

I've been a Warren fan for years, but lately I've become more realistic. She's human and therefore flawed, and it isn't unreasonable to think she might betray her ideals here and there when politically expedient. Watching her give a speech next to Hillary, I couldn't help but wonder how much Warren was suppressing. Would she rather debate Hillary or run with her? I couldn't help but wonder if (when?) Elizabeth Warren will let me down.

Anyway, I have to wonder how the sudden burst of attention and applause has effected her personality. For most of her life she was unknown. Now she's famous. She used to be humble and sweet. I wonder if she is now insufferable around her friends.

And she's my favorite politician!
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Old 06.28.2016, 12:58 PM   #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
No one is incorruptible.

I've been a Warren fan for years, but lately I've become more realistic. She's human and therefore flawed, and it isn't unreasonable to think she might betray her ideals here and there when politically expedient. Watching her give a speech next to Hillary, I couldn't help but wonder how much Warren was suppressing. Would she rather debate Hillary or run with her? I couldn't help but wonder if (when?) Elizabeth Warren will let me down.

Anyway, I have to wonder how the sudden burst of attention and applause has effected her personality. For most of her life she was unknown. Now she's famous. She used to be humble and sweet. I wonder if she is now insufferable around her friends.

And she's my favorite politician!

right, she's a politician. by "right track record" i didn't mean that she's the holy lamb of god-- i mean her track record on the issues, like consumer protection, financial oversight, etc. her book on money saved my financial life, actually, way before she got into politics.

ego issues--she was a professor. i can attest that standing in front of a crowd of people like an all-knowing demi-god is going to pump your ego. feels great! now her classroom just got bigger. but i don't care. also i don't care about her private life as long as she does good work for the public good. i'm not a puritan and have a high tolerance for sin.

as for betraying ideals-- ideals are great, but idealists have no place in politics. those fuckers who never compromise also never get anything done. that, or they become tyrants in some fiefdom where they can impose their will and massacre the opposition.

this is a massive country of 320 million people of the most diverse demographic composition you can find in the planet. there are 50 states, each with their own constitution and legislature, plus a number of territories with their own governments and traditions. and don't get me started about counties and municipalities. there is no fucking way to move this MASSIVE behemoth in any direction without incredible amounts of compromise and concession.
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Old 06.28.2016, 01:42 PM   #307
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So the question is: how much can she change before you stop liking her? And if she's going to compromise and concede too often, what's the point of liking her in the first place? I get the game of give and take, but will she someday support tax breaks for the wealthy because this creates more capital to build factories and create jobs? I don't know.

Maybe you've never strongly supported a politician who eventually let you down. Maybe I'm too cynical.

She's changed in the past year or so. I don't know how to process it. I'm just being cautious in my cheer leading.
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Old 06.28.2016, 03:00 PM   #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
So the question is: how much can she change before you stop liking her?

She'd have to start favoring corporations over people

Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
And if she's going to compromise and concede too often, what's the point of liking her in the first place?

I never said "too often" or "to the polar opposite". I just said compromise is required in a democracy. More so in a mega-country.

In practical terms, 51% Eros vs 49% Tanathos is all you need to stay alive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
I get the game of give and take, but will she someday support tax breaks for the wealthy because this creates more capital to build factories and create jobs? I don't know.

If you look at DC enough you realize it doesn't work that way. She's old enough that she won't experience a sudden conversion now (though that rat bastard Joe Liebarman did it in deep geezerhood, so there's no guarantee).

It's more like--instead of raising the estate tax by 5 points let's keep it as it is but in exchange you guarantee me to fund headstart. That sort of thing. Tit for tat. And if you're good at it you benefit your cause in the aggregate. You always win by points, not by knockout.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
Maybe you've never strongly supported a politician who eventually let you down.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha! It's exactly the opposite. I've learned my lessons from disappointment. I'm a realist now. I know the limits. I've also lived under tyranny so I appreciate this system warts and all.

Lastly I once got involved in local politics and saw how things really work--everyone wants something, everybody pulls in their own direction, and you have to negotiate and navigate that. It's ugly and it takes a certain type of person to enjoy it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
Maybe I'm too cynical.

Wasn't the cynic always the disappointed romantic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
She's changed in the past year or so. I don't know how to process it. I'm just being cautious in my cheer leading.

Are you talking about her public persona or about her policy positions? Was she "for it before she was against it," or something? I'm not saying she hasn't changed, just would like to hear something substantial.
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Old 06.28.2016, 03:20 PM   #309
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Her fiery denunciation of Trump. Obviously she's not wrong, but her snarky tone caught me off guard. The old Elizabeth would've been above such things. She's a damn fine mudslinger, but I'm surprised she slings mud at all.

Policy-wise, I have actually been a little afraid to dig into her Senate record, so no substance for you!

Why, has she done something laudable in her time in the Senate?

Look, I like her fine. If she's the VP pick I might even get off my ass and canvass. It's just that you wrote how much you liked her ("She's fucking great") and I thought, perhaps patronizingly, "Oh no. I hope he doesn't get his heart broken."

And I'm also thinking, "Yeah, I think she's fucking great too, but maybe I shouldn't think that about any politician."

Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
I once got involved in local politics and saw how things really work--everyone wants something, everybody pulls in their own direction, and you have to negotiate and navigate that. It's ugly and it takes a certain type of person to enjoy it.

Funny. I went to school with someone who became a state rep. I used to smoke pot with the guy! Oh, the righteous rants he'd go on. Needless to say, his voting record doesn't reflect any of that.

I saw him after he was on the job for a while and it was obvious that the Real Him the Representative Him were two different people. I gave him shit. And yes, he explained he had to do this to get that.

What's weird is he said how he wasn't expecting this and how much he hated it, how the job of politics had made him cynical about politics. Yet he ran again and won. I'm guessing that in his mind, the position went from a "calling" to a "job," and doesn't nearly every job have its drawbacks?
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Old 06.28.2016, 05:31 PM   #310
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another ISIL bloodbath in Turkey

the narrative works perfect for Trump - regardless of who the attackers are

The Middle East is the great foreign policy failure of the Obama Administration - its almost like the President was set up to fail.

[durn it I just missed my 5000th post]
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Old 06.28.2016, 06:12 PM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
Her fiery denunciation of Trump. Obviously she's not wrong, but her snarky tone caught me off guard. The old Elizabeth would've been above such things. She's a damn fine mudslinger, but I'm surprised she slings mud at all.

I actually love that she stands up to the bully. There's a time to be meek and there's a time to be tough. Nobody wants a meek fucking leader. I want a leader who can kick the enemy's ass.

Actually in New Mexico we have this shitbird governor Susana Martinez who beat her Democrat opponent because (in my opinion) the stupid Democrat presented herself as some benevolent abuelita giving hugs to the poor. Seriously, she had a commercial hugging some poor people like she was the Virgin Mary or something. HORRIBLE. I won't look up that video but here's a basic photo:

Winner left, loser right:

 


A warrior for the poor would have been much better than a hospice nurse. The repuke claimed to stand up against corruption. This is her second term.

So-- I love to see Warren battering the shit out of bullyboy Trump. SHE'S GREAT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
Policy-wise, I have actually been a little afraid to dig into her Senate record, so no substance for you!

here's the lazy way out:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politi...izabeth_Warren

this isn't her voting record obviously but links to sources are there

Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
Why, has she done something laudable in her time in the Senate?

the senate is a deliberative body--not a place for great heroics. but i think she stands out as a voice for reasonable centrist policies that are in these corporate-rule times branded as "progressive"

Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
Look, I like her fine. If she's the VP pick I might even get off my ass and canvass. It's just that you wrote how much you liked her ("She's fucking great") and I thought, perhaps patronizingly, "Oh no. I hope he doesn't get his heart broken."

ha ha ha! this black lump of coal no longer breaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
And I'm also thinking, "Yeah, I think she's fucking great too, but maybe I shouldn't think that about any politician."

it's not the person, but what they stand for. she's not a yellow dog democrat. she has a long history of looking out for the middle class, or should i say, trying to keep people in it. she used to run a financial counseling center i believe when she was a prof. she championed bankruptcy protection since way before she was a politician-- that was her area of research. she's the architect of the consumer protection bureau (she was blocked by repukes from running it). she wrote the best/easiest/smartest personal finance book there is-- she's really smart, not just charismatic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
I'm guessing that in his mind, the position went from a "calling" to a "job," and doesn't nearly every job have its drawbacks?
right. the best that we can expect from a politician is that they do a good job. just like a plumber or a dentist.

speaking of which-- i love how elizabeth warren does a great job of making trump foam at the mouth

SHE'S GREAT
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Old 06.28.2016, 06:26 PM   #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
she's the architect of the consumer protection bureau (she was blocked by repukes from running it).

The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau has also been under fire from within the Democratic Party specifically from Debbie Fuckin' Wasserman Schultz:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b03260bf77e8fc

Considering DWS has been so closely linked to Hillary Clinton, it was great for me to hear from HRC herself a couple of weeks ago that she's standing by the CFPB. Wasserman Schultz has to GO.
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Old 06.28.2016, 07:51 PM   #313
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Quote:
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No one is incorruptible.

Marcelo Bielsa is.
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Old 06.29.2016, 09:18 AM   #314
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http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...the-frustrated
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Old 06.29.2016, 10:09 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by ilduclo

"When Trump announced his candidacy, on June 16th, he vowed to build a two-thousand-mile-long wall to stop Mexico from “sending people that have lots of problems.” He said, “They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.” Three of the statements had no basis in fact—the crime rate among first-generation immigrants is lower than that for native-born Americans"

This is the corporate media being disingenuous. Trump is not talking about legal immigrants. He's talking about the people who come over the border illegally. He's not talking about first generation immigrants.

the MSM is running scared!
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Old 06.29.2016, 10:21 AM   #316
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from the same article

"To inhabit Trump’s landscape for a while, to chase his jet or stay behind with his fans in a half-dozen states, is to encounter a confederacy of the frustrated—less a constituency than a loose alliance of Americans who say they are betrayed by politicians, victimized by a changing world, and enticed by Trump’s insurgency. "


A big fan here in western Oregon is a woman who lost her business which provided actual teachers in science, math, etc to assist the many Xtian home schoolers who do such an abysmal job of educating their many progeny. Her bitterness was caused by the fact that she lost the business due to stealing retirement funds from her employees. I think that's a typical trumpian, angry rather than contrite.
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Old 06.29.2016, 10:39 AM   #317
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Old 06.29.2016, 03:39 PM   #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tesla69
This is the corporate media being disingenuous. Trump is not talking about legal immigrants. He's talking about the people who come over the border illegally. He's not talking about first generation immigrants.

the MSM is running scared!

fuck you undocumented people's kids aren't all drug dealing rapists either and no one is scared of trump indeed quite the opposite its clear trump and his pussy ass "supporters" are the ones that are afraid.
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Old 06.29.2016, 03:41 PM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tesla69
another ISIL bloodbath in Turkey

the narrative works perfect for Trump - regardless of who the attackers are

The Middle East is the great foreign policy failure of the Obama Administration - its almost like the President was set up to fail.

[durn it I just missed my 5000th post]
because you know its not like there wasn't any wars in the region before Obama.. right..
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Old 06.30.2016, 09:26 AM   #320
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As it stands, the Vermont senator has almost vanished from the news cycle, overshadowed by Clinton’s growing lead, overall Democratic unity, global events, and the never-ending emissions of Donald Trump. He’ll still matter to the shape and direction of the Democratic National Convention, but he could have had a larger, more visible role. Bernie Sanders had his shot, and he threw it away.
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