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Old 02.02.2015, 11:04 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucyrulesok
I agree with all of the above and could add many many more. By the by, I thought that Call Me Maybe was Carly Rae Jepson? No matter it's a good track anyway.


Even if you think the Beatles wrote the best pop songs (contentious to begin with! but a matter of opinion so...) doesn't mean there are no other great pop songs. The Beatles did not exist in a vacuum - while I agree they have had a HUGE impact on modern pop music that does not necessarily mean they are automatically BETTER than the music they have inspired. (It also doesn't necessarily follow that because they have had a lot of influence means they are essentially good or better than other acts).

Of course it all comes down to personal opinion but I think that there has been a lot more interesting pop music than the Beatles. I appreciate it is easy in hindsight to think the Beatles are not that great since now they are so overplayed and imitated. But if you look at the landscape of pop music now I think it is a lot more varied & interesting - yes in part due to the Beatles but I think it would be really churlish to ignore e.g. the influence of hip hop (amongst others!). Speaking of which don't you think it is important to note that four white guys dominate so many people's perspective of music which is rooted in black origins????

just my thoughts on the matter as a lover of non-Beatles pop music

 


any my bad on the Taylor Swift fail.
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Old 02.02.2015, 03:44 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor
I searched "Pop" and the SYG database returned nothing......

I realize "Pop Music" isn't something the majority of us listen to and some of you down right loath it, but figured there may be room for a little discussion every now and then.

KC had a new song drop today......my buddy who manages / plays / writes for her produced the vocals on her new track, Heartbeat Song
 

i think a lot of the music we talk about here would qualify as pop but we just don't use the word.

i like a lot of pop but just not what's in the charts these days, as it all sounds the same overprocessed generic shit to me.

regarding kelly clarkson, i recognize she has a good and powerful voice but her music is not my thing. something about the whole aesthetic-- it's really well done & extremely professional but for some reason it grates my ears-- kinda like hollywood movies if i were to compare. but i don't "loathe" her-- she seems good at what she does. like steven spielbeg.

when i'm in the mood for poppy sounds these days my go-to band is stereo total-- i have been listening to them obsessively for the past year maybe. i'll listen to some 70s/ 80s pop too (new wave/synthpop, not madona). i really don't have a pop subgenre of preference. a genre too vast to even try to define. i'd even say "kool thing" is one of my favorite pop tracks, for example. ha ha ha. there. another pop band i love: pixies. also: stereolab. pop is everywhere. pop rock > disco.
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Old 02.02.2015, 05:08 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
another pop band i love: pixies.

Yes! what even is pop music?????
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Old 02.02.2015, 05:10 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicBebs
My daughters mean I get to listen to a fair amount of pop - especially in the car
I quite like Little Mix and Ellie Golding and Lorde
quite like as in I can listen to them without having the urge to crash the car

My wife likes one direction but im not convinced that it's the music she's into...


Like Bebes, my daughters help keep me "up to date" with radio pop. Also, my youngest (now 12) takes dance and her company dances to a lot of "pop" music. Yesterday's Super Bowl was about as pop as it gets. I once loathed "performers" who had no backing band. However, I now see there is a nation of Jr. High and High School dancers who love watching dancers, quick changes and there is no doubt the "images" are stunning......just think about all the work / technical aspects of having Katy Perry ride a four story tall lion.

One of my favorite all time pop albums:
 

Turns 30 later this month......
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Old 02.02.2015, 07:37 PM   #25
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There seems to be some confusion over a "catchy tune" and "pop music." Yeah, the Pixies had some catchy tunes, and may have been influenced by objectively pop artists like Brian Wilson, but the music wasn't meant for a POPular audience. It's too eccentric, even if they did find some mass acceptance in Europe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucyrulesok
Yes! what even is pop music?????

Tough to describe a genre. Pleasing music aimed for a general audience?

What's interesting about pure pop is:

1.) A generation's pop all sounds the same, it all has that "poppy" sound that is tough to describe but everyone knows

and yet

2.) This sound changes now and then. Contemporary pop doesn't sound like 80s pop. I don't think this has anything to do with "musical progress" or "evolving taste." Probably more to do with technology.

And yeah, dancing and light shows are all part of it. The pop machine is meant to please and entertain a large audience, and yes, somewhat talented people work hard to pull this off.

Conceptually this all sounds fun, and maybe sometimes it is, though sometimes the strange values being expressed ruin it for me. But I'm probably just a tightass.

Gonna download the latest Billboard Top 40 and see what's what.
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Old 02.02.2015, 11:34 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
There seems to be some confusion over a "catchy tune" and "pop music." Yeah, the Pixies had some catchy tunes, and may have been influenced by objectively pop artists like Brian Wilson, but the music wasn't meant for a POPular audience. It's too eccentric, even if they did find some mass acceptance in Europe.

i think you're mixing up pop as a musical genre with music that is popular.

pop as i understand is a form of music which originally derived from rocknroll, follows the same pattern of verse/chorus/verse and but it's "lighter" or "softer" and often more danceable. e.g 80's new wave. since pop is ancient it has had time to blend with and infuse itself into infinite other genres from hiphop to country, r&b, punk, etc. like you said in another part i'm not quoting, it changes with the time.

shit, there was an npr thing about kelly clarkson playing some obscure band's song and how snobs were rejecting it for being kelly clarkson without realizing it was their hipster idols being cover..

while pixies is generally a "rock" band, some pixies songs are so soft and easy listening and happy that to my ears they qualify as pop-- e.g. here comes your man, or velouria. the pixies learned so much from the beatles after all.

i say this about the pixies as a musical thing and not "lyrics."

btw, the first time i heard the pixies was not in a secret cavern with the initiated few but on FM radio. which is why initially i didn't pay them much attention. but after years & years, what's left of them with me is the singsong of it all. it's good fun music to clean the house to or listen to while driving-- not to sit on your sofa with headphones on like you'd listen to a symphony.

here's a puzzle to torment your brain: siouxie and the banshees covering dear prudence by the beatles. wtf genre is it?
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Old 02.03.2015, 05:52 AM   #27
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^ That is a head scratcher.

Maybe the distinction should be made between "pop" and "poppy?"

Like, Tom Waits is occasionally "jazzy" but no one's gonna confuse him with Thelonius Monk.

I just don't think Pixies and Beyonce play in the same genre, unless we pull back very far and say all music is either pop or not-pop.

God, I wish I was a few years younger so I actually gave a shit about any of this.
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Old 02.03.2015, 08:53 AM   #28
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because beyonce does pop but is more r&b, no? same as "the king of pop" michael jackson. for my taste the real king of pop is david bowie ha ha ha ha.

i didn't mean that pixies is a "pop band" really in a strict sense. i just meant to challenge the notion that pop is any kind of narrowly circumscribed top-40 genre-- instead it's a big big current in music.

re: tom waits, blues singer, yes genres blend because they're just concepts to box in a messy reality. no?

i think if you look at top-40 popular music today and try o define a historical pop genre backwards from it it's going to be problematic because a lof of influences like hip hop r&b or country or latin or whatever are going to send you in all kinds directions. it's easier if you start in the 50s or whatever and see how it branches out and spins out subgenres.

so pulling back and saying pop/non-pop while being maybe too broad actually makes sense to me.

but anyway the real problem is trying to create neat divisions in what is actually a very fluid reality no?
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Old 02.03.2015, 09:25 AM   #29
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ps-- i found it, i found it!!

http://www.npr.org/2014/12/02/368013...ce-u-been-gone
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Old 02.03.2015, 09:41 AM   #30
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^ A comment reads: "Mainstream pop is musical scrapbooking." Interesting idea.
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Old 02.03.2015, 10:36 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
i think you're mixing up pop as a musical genre with music that is popular.


Either as a genre or just as a song that's popular, at some point it must be played on Top 40 radio (which today is more like Top 20)......right???

Speaking of, Pixies......Kelly Clarkson's bass player was once Kim Deal's bass tech and he also recorded and engineered on a couple of Frank Black solo albums.
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Old 02.03.2015, 10:48 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evollove
^ A comment reads: "Mainstream pop is musical scrapbooking." Interesting idea.

but what music does not collect? and when has it not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor
Either as a genre or just as a song that's popular, at some point it must be played on Top 40 radio (which today is more like Top 20)......right???

what about the bazillions that try in earnest but just don't chart?
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Old 02.03.2015, 10:59 AM   #33
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^^^same for the millions of one hit wonders......now you hear them and then you don't!
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Old 02.03.2015, 11:12 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor
^^^same for the millions of one hit wonders......now you hear them and then you don't!

right... which is why i'm arguing that pop is a (very) broad genre, rather than popular music (music that charts) per se. sometimes you get stuff charting that is not in the pop genre at all. pop though, it seems, would be manufactured to chart and more likely to do it.

compare:

http://www.bobborst.com/popculture/t...ear/?year=1975

http://www.bobborst.com/popculture/t...ear/?year=2014

and lists:

http://top40.about.com/od/top10lists...ngsalltime.htm

http://www.listology.com/blindsider/...test-pop-songs

very confusing ha ha ha ha
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Old 02.03.2015, 12:24 PM   #35
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I just read the wiki page about pop music and agree with the following definition:
Quote:
According to Simon Frith pop music is produced "as a matter of enterprise not art", is "designed to appeal to everyone" and "doesn't come from any particular place or mark off any particular taste". It is "not driven by any significant ambition except profit and commercial reward ... and, in musical terms, it is essentially conservative". It is, "provided from on high (by record companies, radio programmers and concert promoters) rather than being made from below ... Pop is not a do-it-yourself music but is professionally produced and packaged"

which means for me that Pixies is not pop. Late Beatles is not pop, early Beatles is
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Old 02.03.2015, 12:54 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by _tunic_
I just read the wiki page about pop music and agree with the following definition:


which means for me that Pixies is not pop. Late Beatles is not pop, early Beatles is

from that perspective, maybe, but from other perspectives on that very same page (e.g pete seeger) then they are all pop. but then by that definition maybe nirvana's "nevermind" is a pop album, as it was crafted professionally to fit sub-pop's requirements. no?

though the post-67 definition as "opposed to rock music" if you see the notes comes from "the oxford companion to music" and im not sure they include the simon firth economic argument. do they?

ETA: does that simon firth definition negate the possibility of indie pop or alt pop???
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Old 02.03.2015, 01:02 PM   #37
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Pete never had truck commercials using his songs like, Bob.
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Old 02.03.2015, 01:04 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor
Pete never had truck commercials using his songs like, Bob.
oh i didn't mean he did pop music but if you look at that page pete seeger makes a very broad definition of pop music as having elements from both folk and fine arts music.
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Old 02.03.2015, 01:11 PM   #39
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I read the article......never would have considered Bob "pop," but having a songs featured in a movies and commercials will have that effect!
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Old 02.03.2015, 01:14 PM   #40
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