[acousticrock87]

Even though the rest of the middle east already preemptively attacked Israel, and Israel won, I think they should live together peacefully. The governments and militaries suck, but that's no reason to take it out on any of the citizens.

[Rob Instigator]

Israeli gunships hit fuel tank at Beirut airport

• Israel strikes Beirut airport, hitting fuel tank
• IDF: Rockets hit Haifa; Hezbollah denies attack
• Israeli ambassador: Haifa attack "major escalation"
• Hezbollah launches scores of rockets into Israel
• Israel, Lebanon officials say violence amounts to "acts of war"
• Al-Arabiya: Israeli leaflets warn to stay away from Hezbollah centers

[Bastian]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

and damn, soldiers exist for two purposes and two purposes only. to KILL the enemy and die trying or to DIE defending atatcks from an enemy.

preznit bush dodged military service rather than give the "ultimate sacrifice" as he so likes to put it. so did Clinton. John Kerry, the only person running for president in the last 10 years that has actual military service, was laughed at for his anti war stance. now, who is better to tell you that war sucks? a soldier that has seen it and killed and seen his friends die trying to kill.

yet we laughed at hima nd elected a puppet of fat fucks.

Can`t we let US politics out of this and stick to the debate over the Israeli-Lebanse/Palestine conflict?

[porkmarras]

Originally Posted by chabib

the israeli government is out of control in general. the majority of israeli citizens have plenty of contempt for the actions of their government as they know that such actions do nothing but further endanger their lives.

america's decision to start a war with afghanistan because a terrorist organization has bases there has opened up a nasty can of worms. now any nation can use that conflict as an example of how terrorism is supposed to be combatted.

while the rest of the world can come out strongly against the disproportionate actions of the israeli government and the IDF, america (not that they'd say anything anyway, for some ludicrous reason...) can't say anything without looking entirely hypocritical.

why america ever supported the possibility for a country the size of new jersey to have the fourth largest army in the world as well as nuclear arms is a mystery to me. i'd love to see how much more willing to be a partner in peace israel would be if they had a military the size of lebanon or syria...

I'm utterly appaled about what you have just posted.But since this is not actual political militance but some vaguely and possibly simplistic political stance and music forum,i suppose you are totally right.Some people just revel in the total irrelevance of their own statements.Others fight the war with both mind and body.I know who i'd take position with.

[Rob Instigator]

Batiasn, it is all relevant. the people in power i the US as of this second are firm believers in the armageddon theory of fundamentalist christians. the truly believe that the world is coming to and end and SOON and that it will all be precipitated by Israel, which is why they ahve such a vested interest in maintaining the existance of Israel. according to the new testament, the way these fundamentalists read revelations, they believe that the Jews have to have a state before the armagedon can begin. The y have had a state now for over 50 years. these people are INSANE.
they have no need to better tomorrow because in their hearts and minds tomorrow will never come. they want their goodies NOW

it is highly relevant to the ongoing conflict in israel/Gaza/Lebanon.

[porkmarras]

Incidentally has anyone on here been an actually waged anti-capitalism party member?

[porkmarras]

Originally Posted by Rob Instigator

Batiasn, it is all relevant. the people in power i the US as of this second are firm believers in the armageddon theory of fundamentalist christians. the truly believe that the world is coming to and end and SOON and that it will all be precipitated by Israel, which is why they ahve such a vested interest in maintaining the existance of Israel. according to the new testament, the way these fundamentalists read revelations, they believe that the Jews have to have a state before the armagedon can begin. The y have had a state now for over 50 years. these people are INSANE.
they have no need to better tomorrow because in their hearts and minds tomorrow will never come. they want their goodies NOW

it is highly relevant to the ongoing conflict in israel/Gaza/Lebanon.

Let's not do the 'whatever chabib posts is gold' sort of arselicking thing there.It just kills off more on the ball discussion.It goes nowhere round these parts.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by porkmarras

Incidentally has anyone on here been an actually waged anti-capitalism party member?

I've been involved in several leftist groups, some more militant (ie violent idiots) than others. Never waged, just a lot of angry rhetoric. I've been stuck in an ideological hinterland as a result, and by consequence, I generally refuse to open the can of worms marked 'Isreal', especially as I know plenty of people who give entirely different renditions of the conflict thanks to their direct experience on kibbitz and in the Isreali army.

[Bastian]

Originally Posted by porkmarras

Incidentally has anyone on here been an actually waged anti-capitalism party member?

I`m leaning to the left and anti-capitalism, though not active in any groups (yet).
I`m also very critical of/opposed to many positions that are considered "left".

I think a leftist group that I can relate to should be consent to this:
http://www.eustonmanifesto.org/

[acousticrock87]

For every person who bashes capitalism, I will get Leeds Mattresses to match any advertised price, or my mattress is free. Jerks.

[porkmarras]

Originally Posted by Bastian

I`m leaning to the left and anti-capitalism, though not active in any groups (yet).
I`m also very critical of/opposed to many positions that are considered "left".

I think a leftist group that I can relate to should be consent to this:
http://www.eustonmanifesto.org/

The left or right political orientations are something someone out there is trying to prove very,very misleading.

[porkmarras]

Originally Posted by acousticrock87

For every person who bashes capitalism, I will get Leeds Mattresses to match any advertised price, or my mattress is free. Jerks.

Simplified statement.Spotted.

[Bastian]

Originally Posted by porkmarras

The left or right political orientations are something someone out there is trying to prove very,very misleading.

Well, not sure if I understand you correctly..

I don`t really care much about the label "left" or "right", I rather try to judge a position by what it`s actual about, not what political spectrum it is attributed to.

The whole left/right dichtomy is pretty messed up anyways.
Political groups/position within the left are sometimes totally oppositional to each other. Same goes for parties of the so-called center or right, I guess.

I`ve been called "left-wing radical" by "conservative" folks as I`ve been called neocon by "leftwing" folks, as I`m very opposed to the anti-imperialist left (and right.. anti-imperialsm is very alive in neo nazi groups)... stupid "identy" clashes..

[krastian]

Live together peacefully....it's the 21st Century for fucks sake. Fuck the bullshit.

[Rob Instigator]

porkmarrass

I was talking to bastian about my previous statements re: preznit Bush and american politics, not referring to chabib or you. so chills man.

I know there's an elton john record somewhere you have not bought yet!

[afreespirit]

Hezbullah is a member of the governing coalition of Lebanon. Which is why Israel is holding Lebanon responsible for the actions of Hezbullah and is considering Hezbullah's actions as an act of war. Acting as a state within a state isn't going to give Hezbullah any cover when it comes to Israeli retaliation. And the Lebanese as a whole will suffer the consequences of allowing Hezbullah to behave as if it were a state within a state.

But the real power pulling the strings here is Iran which controls Hezbullah (Interesting to note that Syria and Iran recently signed defence treaty). And if those 2 captured soldiers are ever transfered to Iran, well your guess is as good as mine.

[ricechex]

I agree with Russia and France that Israel's reaction seems a bit over the top relative to what intiated everything in this latest round of violence, while at the same time can understand their anger in saying enough and want to bulldoze hezbollah and hamas. its crazy. we're all caught up in the middle of right wing, take humanity backwards, brutal wars.

[porkmarras]

Originally Posted by Bastian

Well, not sure if I understand you correctly..

I don`t really care much about the label "left" or "right", I rather try to judge a position by what it`s actual about, not what political spectrum it is attributed to.

The whole left/right dichtomy is pretty messed up anyways.
Political groups/position within the left are sometimes totally oppositional to each other. Same goes for parties of the so-called center or right, I guess.

I`ve been called "left-wing radical" by "conservative" folks as I`ve been called neocon by "leftwing" folks, as I`m very opposed to the anti-imperialist left (and right.. anti-imperial
sm is very alive in neo nazi groups)... stupid "identy" clashes..

Like people didn't get there before you did.

[porkmarras]

Shame.

[acousticrock87]

If you're too scared to pick a side, you're obviously a very weak and indecisive person. People of worthwhile opinions group themselves with other people of similar or not-so-similar-but-somehow-linked opinions. That's how real men roll. And politically empowered women.