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Old 01.07.2015, 12:49 PM   #18481
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ha!

So I guess around 1981 someone crunched the numbers and realized the working class don't really go to the movies that often, so why made movies about them? Brilliant.
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Roseanne had scenes that took place in a factory line! Blows my mind to think of it.
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Old 01.07.2015, 12:52 PM   #18482
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i think it was more than crunching numbers. it was that mainstream america fell under the spell of the great communicator. everyone can be rich if they just want to! if you're struggling it's your own fault. who wants to watch a loser when we can dream of being yuppies? if you can dream it you can do it. etc.

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ps george lopez worked in a factory too but apparently his schtick was about the fiction of "race."

--

there's this great scene in lucky louie where they've been hard up for a while and finally the wife gets her paycheck they wanna go out & celebrate and they go to the cash checking place and get a bunch of money orders to pay all their overdue bills and then they're left with 26 cents in change.

--

ps - just read this! good stuff. http://www.alternet.org/story/148122/how_america's_working_class_died_on_the_disco_danc e_floor

^^ weird link doesn't copy correctly. just google "70s working class films" and it will appear on top.
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Old 01.07.2015, 02:21 PM   #18483
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From the article:

The megahit of 1977 allowed the nation to begin to move toward the 1980s celebration of working-class heroes who managed to get out, while casting those who could not into cinematic (and political) darkness.

What 80s movies celebrate "getting out"? Or is there a rags-to-riches hit? Just wondering which movies he means.
---

Looked up highest grossers of 1980s:

E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial (1982), $435 million
Return of the Jedi (1983), $309 million
The Empire Strikes Back (1980), $290 million
Batman (1989), $251 million
Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981), $245 million
Ghostbusters (1984), $238 million
Beverly Hills Cop (1984), $234 million
Back to the Future (1985), $210 million
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (1989), $197 million
Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (1984), $179 million

I gather from this no one had any interest in the real world. Someone might even suggest everyone was living in a daydream nation.

---

Not to harp, but:

Roseanne-1988
George Lopez Show-2002
Lucky Louis-2006

(By the way, why is Louis so negative about the show? It's not that bad. Also he co-created, produced, wrote, acted in it, so even if it did suck I'm not sure how much blame goes to others.)
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Old 01.07.2015, 02:33 PM   #18484
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Louis CK said HBO ruined his show.

as far as movies celebrating "getting out" in the 80's?

Brewster's Millions (a remake, I know)
Trading Places
Annie
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Old 01.07.2015, 02:39 PM   #18485
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is he negative about it? i thought he was fucking proud. get the discs (2 of them) & check out the commentaries, etc. he's pissed that it was cancelled but both him and pamela adlon were very proud of their work-- which btw c.k. compares it to the honeymooners (they even went for a similar look in the apartment).

can't think of any blockbusters that were about rags to riches stories but for example there's this class-conscious comedy from late 80s/early 90s called "dutch" featuring the al bundy guy as some working class dude dating a rich lady and he goes to pick up the lady's kid for thanksgiving... all kind of shit ensues. but the thing is that this working class schmoe is a millionaire who owns a fucking construction company. and so love triumphs in the end. al bundy the shoe salesman on the other hand is painted as a loser and an object of ridicule.

oh wait there is plenty of that material in the yuppie age about "getting out". the secret of my success, trading places... even a pink-collar revolt like "9 to 5" ends up in marriage and yuppiedom. the 80s were a time of ideological carnage. after that, if you don't have a trust fund it's your own damn fault.

the british thank fuck gave us mike leigh who is still making films. haven't watched his latest. last i saw was vera drake which in recollection was very good. but that's just a drop in the bucket.
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Old 01.07.2015, 03:52 PM   #18486
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Dig this:

Less Than Zero (1987)
Wall Street (1987)
Bright Lights, Big City (1988)

I tried to think of movies critical of how the eighties defined "success" and was surprised to find they all came out roughly the same time.
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Old 01.07.2015, 04:00 PM   #18487
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and all those movies criticizing materialism and greed were used by idiots to model their own search for material wealth and greed.

Those movies were a subtle cause of the massive investment bubbles of the past 20 years
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Old 01.07.2015, 04:55 PM   #18488
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Those films may have criticised it morally but it was an era when the evil capitalists were suddenly getting the most appealing roles, with all the best lines. Gordon Gekko, J.R. Ewing. They were baddies only in the way that Dracula was a baddie, or Hannibal Lector, ie they were portrayed in a way that was a million times more appealing than their good-guy adversaries. It was a complete reversal of the logic that underpinned films like It's a Wonderful Life.
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Old 01.07.2015, 05:02 PM   #18489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
is he negative about it? i thought he was fucking proud. get the discs (2 of them) & check out the commentaries, etc. he's pissed that it was cancelled but both him and pamela adlon were very proud of their work-- which btw c.k. compares it to the honeymooners (they even went for a similar look in the apartment).

can't think of any blockbusters that were about rags to riches stories but for example there's this class-conscious comedy from late 80s/early 90s called "dutch" featuring the al bundy guy as some working class dude dating a rich lady and he goes to pick up the lady's kid for thanksgiving... all kind of shit ensues. but the thing is that this working class schmoe is a millionaire who owns a fucking construction company. and so love triumphs in the end. al bundy the shoe salesman on the other hand is painted as a loser and an object of ridicule.

oh wait there is plenty of that material in the yuppie age about "getting out". the secret of my success, trading places... even a pink-collar revolt like "9 to 5" ends up in marriage and yuppiedom. the 80s were a time of ideological carnage. after that, if you don't have a trust fund it's your own damn fault.

the british thank fuck gave us mike leigh who is still making films. haven't watched his latest. last i saw was vera drake which in recollection was very good. but that's just a drop in the bucket.

if you want working class british films watch Selfish Giant. Brilliant film.
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Old 01.07.2015, 05:34 PM   #18490
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I think the years are significant, and i suggest that after two terms of Reagan there was something of an appetite for questioning the dream that had been sold. Same time as Roseanne, in fact.

But I certainly take the point.

Apparently it caused Oliver Stone some chagrin when yuppie scum saw Gordon Gekko as a hero. From what I remember, Stone made him unlikable enough. But yes, I doubt anyone goes up to Oliver Stone and quotes any of Martin Sheen's lines.
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Old 01.07.2015, 05:36 PM   #18491
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surprisingly i really enjoyed this flick.. it was a classic thriller with a dozen completely unpredictable turns i was hooked! Possibly im just biased as a devotee of Willam Dafoe
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Old 01.07.2015, 06:19 PM   #18492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!

the british thank fuck gave us mike leigh who is still making films. haven't watched his latest. last i saw was vera drake which in recollection was very good. but that's just a drop in the bucket.

Politically, Mike Leigh's generally been more about poking fun at the lower middle class than anything to do with the working class. He's closer to someone like Alan Bennet in that sense. Ken Loach is probably the only overtly political (from a class perspective) filmmaker Britain has left. (If you'll pardon the pun.)
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Old 01.08.2015, 10:41 AM   #18493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
Politically, Mike Leigh's generally been more about poking fun at the lower middle class than anything to do with the working class. He's closer to someone like Alan Bennet in that sense. Ken Loach is probably the only overtly political (from a class perspective) filmmaker Britain has left. (If you'll pardon the pun.)

i'm sure you know him better than i do, and a film like life is sweet would fit that description (only in part, because after the comedy it gets really serious), but films like "vera drake" or "naked" are not about that nor funny at all.

i suppose what i find praiseworthy in him is not some sort of political commitment (i am not really fond of overt ideologues), but his realism, in opposition to hollywood which is all about brainwashing through aspirational fantasies of impossible lives.

speaking of realism-- that is a reason why the wire was so great. so things like that are possible, but they are extremely rare.
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Old 01.08.2015, 08:09 PM   #18494
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Old 01.08.2015, 09:24 PM   #18495
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Fallen also better than i remembered.. ending had the potential to have been epic good then turned out to be epic #fail for literally no reason
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Old 01.08.2015, 10:07 PM   #18496
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Fallen also better than i remembered.. ending had the potential to have been epic good then turned out to be epic #fail for literally no reason
So you can say that Fallen's ending.....fell flat.....yeeeeeeeaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh </caruso>
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Old 01.08.2015, 10:17 PM   #18497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
i'm sure you know him better than i do, and a film like life is sweet would fit that description (only in part, because after the comedy it gets really serious), but films like "vera drake" or "naked" are not about that nor funny at all.

i suppose what i find praiseworthy in him is not some sort of political commitment (i am not really fond of overt ideologues), but his realism, in opposition to hollywood which is all about brainwashing through aspirational fantasies of impossible lives.

speaking of realism-- that is a reason why the wire was so great. so things like that are possible, but they are extremely rare.

Haven't seen Vera Drake but you're right about Naked. But for me he really defined himself with his earlier tv dramas, which I imagine are harder to get hold of in the US. Stuff like Abigail's Party

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-hXUehyRlE
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Old 01.08.2015, 11:14 PM   #18498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
Haven't seen Vera Drake but you're right about Naked. But for me he really defined himself with his earlier tv dramas, which I imagine are harder to get hold of in the US. Stuff like Abigail's Party

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-hXUehyRlE

oh, i see. i only learned about him in the 90s via "secrets and lies." and more or less kept up since.

i've been planning a retrospective of his movies via netflix, which has "hard labour" (1973), and i think maybe i'll start it sooner than planned.

looking at the selection seems like he covers the whole social spectrum though, including an "affluent snobby couple" in "nuts in may" (1976), a postman, office workers, mortician's assistants, very poor people, etc. is he maybe your contemporary balzac? hmm....
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Old 01.09.2015, 07:25 AM   #18499
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He does cover the full range but his most fruitful/insightful area is definitely those petty cultural snobberies that so pre-occupy the upper working/lower middle classes. So Balzac maybe, I dunno, haven't read him, but probably more straight-forwardly comparable with the way Dickens dealt with those areas.
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Old 01.09.2015, 11:29 AM   #18500
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Not sure abt Mr Turner, although I think Timothy Spall is pretty great in just about anything he does, I distrust the historical bio films in general....
Another year was fantastic, L Manville and Broadbent. Plus, my being a geologist also helped me like Broadbent's character.
Happy Go Lucky had a stellar performance by Eddie Marsan, who I just about always see as "Scott" now.
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