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Old 10.15.2016, 10:48 AM   #1201
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Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
i figured a political dude such as yourself would have known more about Hillary biography. I had known before about her lawyer years and then the Arkansas governor stuff..

i'm not so much "political" as "civic-minded". at least at this point in my life. i don't like politics but regard them as necessary and try to at least do my part.

SO, i've known about the clintons since they got into national politics and i knew a little bit about her arkansas days but back in the 90s a lot of that info was coming from right-wing propagandists like rush limbaugh & drudge & etc.

e.g., what you hear about her in relation to watergate is that she was fired (complete bullshit), not that she ws gonna be a political star and chose to go to arkansas instead.

so-- the part that i didn't knwo at all was her high school and college days-- how she stood up to a senator and made the cover of time magazine or how she patched people's heads at the democratic convention, etc.

also i didn't know how the arkansans didn't like her for wearing glasses (!!) or not taking clinton's name (!!!) and how she had to go from being a smart 2nd wave feminist with a sharp mind for policy to posing as a cookie baker--this was mirrored during the clinton years and i was familiar with that, but i didn't know it was a pattern with the voters.

and you know, there are still people who won't vote for her because she's a woman. which is very troubling.

i gotta finish watching evil dead 2 right now so i can drop it in the mail before pickup time, so i'll leave this hanging here.
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Old 10.15.2016, 11:05 AM   #1202
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Originally Posted by greenlight
I think that hostility towards Russia coming from our side is unnecessary, dangerous and partial. or maybe part of some plan. and I still think US media brainwash you with Russia is aggressor narrative big time. again my opinion.

Wait... what?!

Are we talking about the same Russia here?

I don't think the attitude in the U.S. is actively hostile to Russia, but more hostile to Putin. And if you have an explanation regarding why this hostility is unwarranted, or perhaps to put it more accurately, unprovoked, I for one would love to hear it.

I'm not anti-Russia, but Putin is a terrifying presence in world politics, and this is due not only to the conduct of his soldiers and his alleged involvement in civilian slaughtering airstrikes in Syria, but also to the loyalty he inexplicably inspires both in Russia and in other parts of the world.
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Old 10.15.2016, 12:33 PM   #1203
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if you're really interested in getting a different pov from what is usually reported in the US media about Russia, Stephen F. Cohen in the Nation magazine has a column now and again on it. He generally feels that our stigmatizing Russia for a lot of the problems in the East is not helpful.

here's an example

https://www.thenation.com/article/wi...a-and-ukraine/
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Old 10.15.2016, 01:15 PM   #1204
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Originally Posted by Severian
Help me with something, will you guys?

In complete honesty I've been a Hilary supporter since the '90s, and I've wanted to see her in the general since somewhere around 1996. I voted for her over Obama in the '08 primary, and voted for her over Bernie this year.

But there's something I can't quite get my head around.

WHY ARE PEOPLE SAYING HOLLARY CLINTON IS A MURDERER?

I mean.. I've asked, and I've been given batshit answers... like "in the mid-'90s she went rightnubto peoples' homes and had them fucking executed" and when I ask, "which people and for whatnreason/purpose?" I hear "oh man, so many people, and because she's a cunt" (or some such nonsense)

I've also heard the super predictable abortion response. Democrat = babykiller, period.

But the accusation has been on many mouths over the last year, and I can't find any reference to any documented incident that might be construed as true by any stretch of the sane imagination.

Anyone want to help me out on this?
she voted for Iraq war, she was Secretary of state during a very active period for US military operations abroad, and she seems to get the personal blame for Bengazi (yet all these Republicans seem to have forgotten what happened to US troops in Lebanon during Reagan)..
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Old 10.15.2016, 01:21 PM   #1205
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im not going to waste my time outlining what is wrong with Putin's Russia. its not some Western conspiracy amplified by Western media, its a fact backed up by the past twenty years! folks can do their own HW or can wave Putin's flag not my business
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Old 10.15.2016, 01:28 PM   #1206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlight
no worries, I can see you are not attacking me.

no, no, no. I am not supporting or sympathetic with Russian regime at all, do not get me wrong. people here in CzechkoSlovakia actually do not have a fond memories on Russians spec. since '68 till '89 and their permanent military bases and their occupation throughout that time (we were allies). perhaps that's why people over here are more awake and do not trust US strong anti Russian rhetoric (now we are allies). we live next to Russia and everything here is fine. you can get their tv channels on cable over here too and you certainly do not see any indication of hostility towards US on their news. opposite. but man so much hostility against them coming out from our news, it is like completly different reality. do not get it. o.k let everybody play on their playground, look after and defend everyone's own interests, but please stop blaming and being aggresive towards Russia just because they won't bow down to our game and our way, it really might end up in a mess. and media back in your part of the world, man, even double amount of brainwashing with strong hostility-from-russians propaganda. just my opinion. o.k. fair enough, be vigilant, keep an eye on each other. but seeing Hillary talk anti Russian you get a feeling she is the one looking for a conflict, or US army chief threatens war with Russia...we will beat you harder than ever before. i haven't seen Putin or his generals talking that aggresive against U.S. publicly, did you?

I am not proRussian suchfriendsaredangerous but I think that hostility towards Russia coming from our side is unnecessary, dangerous and partial. or maybe part of some plan. and I still think US media brainwash you with Russia is aggressor narrative big time. again my opinion.

while i agree that the politicizing of it all in US is distasteful again Russia and Putin certainly aren't "good guys" in the world or even in Russia. further the growing tensions between West and Russia are totally understandable from a geopolitical standpoint, its a growing rivalry for supremacy in Europe, Middle East, and Asia where Russian influence is rising. i am not saying which side is "right" or "wrong", again I'm not sure there are any "good guys" in this, but i for one if you haven't noticed have been and will continue to be very critical of both Russia AND America, period
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Old 10.15.2016, 01:55 PM   #1207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilduclo
if you're really interested in getting a different pov from what is usually reported in the US media about Russia, Stephen F. Cohen in the Nation magazine has a column now and again on it. He generally feels that our stigmatizing Russia for a lot of the problems in the East is not helpful.

here's an example

https://www.thenation.com/article/wi...a-and-ukraine/
this article was total trash, an empty political fluff piece. it offered nothing of substantive geopolitical analysis, it offered ZERO plausible scenarios, and even worse its entire premise was based on two "cease-fires" that are all empty political theater and don't actually exist on the ground in Syria or Ukraine.

Further its tone blatantly revealed its pro-Trump pro-Russia biases
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Old 10.15.2016, 02:05 PM   #1208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
this article was total trash, an empty political fluff piece. it offered nothing of substantive geopolitical analysis, it offered ZERO plausible scenarios, and even worse its entire premise was based on two "cease-fires" that are all empty political theater and don't actually exist on the ground in Syria or Ukraine.

Further its tone blatantly revealed its pro-Trump pro-Russia biases
THE NATION pro-trump????

i.f. stone is gonna rise from the grave and haunt you
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Old 10.15.2016, 02:17 PM   #1209
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Originally Posted by !@#$%!
THE NATION pro-trump????

i.f. stone is gonna rise from the grave and haunt you
im just interpretting the tone of the article itself as a source though true i didn't do any actual sourcing.

did you read it?
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Old 10.15.2016, 02:28 PM   #1210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
she voted for Iraq war, she was Secretary of state during a very active period for US military operations abroad, and she seems to get the personal blame for Bengazi (yet all these Republicans seem to have forgotten what happened to US troops in Lebanon during Reagan)..
back in the 90s there was a lot of bullshit spun around vince foster's suicide in a well-known gay cruising spot, plus the x-files were on tv

the tendency is of course for republicans to paint hillary with the worst brush possible because she's a smart independent woman and a feminist and they just can't stand her

you can make up any sort of rumor and it will stick and gain support and each new rumor will be counted as a "confirmed source"
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Old 10.15.2016, 02:29 PM   #1211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
im just interpretting the tone of the article itself as a source though true i didn't do any actual sourcing.

did you read it?
yes. it's not pro-trump. it's dovish.
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Old 10.15.2016, 02:31 PM   #1212
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this two-front détente diplomacy represents a fateful opportunity, to be seized or lost as were previous ones.
false and misleading premise, as in all actuality there was never a real cease fire or any true opportunity for a coalition here.
Quote:
The primary tactic is to further vilify Putin as an unworthy American partner in any regard—an approach driven by years of anti-Putin politics and now by the awareness that such cooperation in Syria would mark Russia’s full return as a great power on the world stage. Much now depends on whether or not Obama will fight for his own anti–Cold War diplomacy, as President Reagan did in the 1980s but as Obama repeatedly has failed to do. His foreign-policy legacy is at stake, as is international relations.


Putin is an unworthy ally and how am i wrong for reading this quote as having a proRussia tone?

Quote:

However ironically, Donald Trump has, in his own way, like Obama, called for US-Russian military cooperation in Syria

ummmmm WTF? Donald Trump has openly accused the administration of "creating ISIS" in what universe is Trump promoted a joint coalition? what trump has said time and time again is more or less "Putin is right Obama is wrong" and THAT isn't a coalition, its kowtowing at its most debased.

Quote:
The mainstream media has all but banned it with neo-McCarthyite allegations against Trump and other pro-détente advocates

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA this is satire right? God help us and tell me this is satire
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Old 10.15.2016, 02:36 PM   #1213
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that article is a dove like PM Chamberlain was

 


gee golly if only big mean America would just leave Assad alone to destroy his country and use military force against his political opposition and gosh darnit why can't Russia just be allowed to install puppet regimes all through out the nations its oil pipelines and transportation networks travel through?
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Old 10.15.2016, 02:37 PM   #1214
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/opi...=.614b07962f32
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Old 10.15.2016, 02:43 PM   #1215
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also didn't Trump say "i will destroy IsIs"???

yeah that is some Dove there
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Old 10.15.2016, 02:49 PM   #1216
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well, the nation is an old-school radical left publication. it's what they do. i like them for some things.

the chamberlain comparison is at times apt, at times wrong-- it depends

e.g., christopher hitchens used to write for them but they broke it off over iraq because when it came to saddam they were dovish like chamberlain, lol
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Old 10.15.2016, 02:51 PM   #1217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
well, the nation is an old-school radical left publication. it's what they do. i like them for some things.

the chamberlain comparison is at times apt, at times wrong-- it depends

e.g., christopher hitchens used to write for them but they broke it off over iraq because when it came to saddam they were dovish like chamberlain, lol

im not criticizing the publication itself, just that particular article
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Old 10.15.2016, 02:52 PM   #1218
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there have been few groups in history as definitively morally justifiable to murder as isis
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Old 10.15.2016, 02:58 PM   #1219
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there have been few groups in history as definitively morally justifiable to murder as isis
sure BUT its not that easy, it implies open and ground war in several nations, requiring extensive international political support. i mean they literally martyred 21 Coptic Orthodox Christians and then 30 Ethiopian Orthodox Christians, these martyrs were added to our calendars. its not like i have no skin in the game with ISIS.

but the geopolitics of such a war are staggering, and the American experience in Iraq strongly suggests its a local problem that foreign intervention will only exasperate and complicate.

to be sure, if Assad was actually fighting Isis and not just using them as an opportunity to fight against his political opposition and inflict terror on civilian populations to intimidate them into submitting to his unpopular and possibly illegal government then i might be somewhat sympathetic to that situation. Isis are bad dudes.

BUT this war in Syria isn't about Isis at all, i mean, shit, THERE ARE ONLY 20,000 isis militiamen in the region, certainly if any military there actually WANTED to destroy them they would all be dead by now.

Assad likes Isis its a convenient boogieman to scapegoat and blame. Russia likes Isis, it is fabulous propaganda opportunity
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Old 10.15.2016, 03:03 PM   #1220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
im not criticizing the publication itself, just that particular article
well, yeah-- the nation tends to support a lot of pie-in-the-sky perspectives. like i said, it's what they do. i'm okay with that though, because this country needs the discussion.
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