[atari 2600]

Poe is so very death-educational.

I imagine that the Tibetan Book of the Dead would be too if I put a lifetime into studying it.

Poe made me really comfortable with death. I'm listening to The Smiths's 'Reel Around The Fountain', one of the most death- ridden songs ever. The death is cleverer than the listener, if you get what i mean.

[Tokolosh]

I got a book of short stories by Edgar Allen Poe for my birthday, when I was eleven. I had many sleepless nights after reading it.

Death is something we all can be sure of.

[atari 2600]

And, as the saying goes, taxes too.

[jon boy]

in a hail of bullets?

[Iain]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Denial_of_Death

We usually get the same types of recommendations in book threads. I've alluded to this book's importance a few times, but this thread gives me another opportunity to do so:

The Denial of Death

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



The Denial of Death (ISBN 0-684-83240-2) is a psychology/philosophy work written by Ernest Becker and published in 1973. It was awarded the Pulitzer prize for general non-fiction in 1974, two months after the author's death. The book builds largely on the works of Søren Kierkegaard, Sigmund Freud, and one of Freud's colleagues, Otto Rank.
The main theme of The Denial of Death is that most human activity ultimately concerns the denial of one's mortality. The full realization of one's own mortality is mostly unbearable, absolutely terrifying and horrific. Man transcends this problem in the concept of heroism. By being heroic, man feels he has meaning, a purpose, something that will never die. One can be a hero to the eye of God, to the State, to the eyes of his peers, to his family, etc. Mental illness is thus most insightfully interpreted as a bogging down in one's hero system(s).
Another theme running throughout the book is that humanity's traditional "hero-systems" i.e. religion, are no longer convincing in the age of reason; science is attempting to solve the problem of man, something that it can never do. The book states that we need new convincing "illusions" that enable us to feel heroic in the grand scheme of things, i.e. immortal.

Trivia

• In Woody Allen's film Annie Hall, death-obsessed Alvy Singer buys the book for his girlfriend, Annie Hall.

Zygmunt Bauman has some similar things to say about Death as well. Can't remeber which book it was in though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygmunt_Bauman

[atari 2600]

http://faculty.washington.edu/nelgee...s/hughes_1.htm

http://www.chosunjournal.com/death.html

http://www.selfknowledge.org/resourc...ialofdeath.htm

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by Kegmama

People living deeply have no fear of death.

I am not really scared of death.
I do fear how I am going to die though.

Oh really, what happens when a bee flies close to your face?

That's not a voluntary reaction. That's an instinctual involuntary reaction one gets when a bee flies near one's head.

Unless you are capable of deep meditation, you probably, like everyone, have fear of death.
Ask yourself if you can be hooked up to an EEG (like Tibetan Monks were in recent experiments) and show no flinching in your brainwave activity when a shotgun is fired from right beside to your head.

It's true, Kegmama, that you probably have less fear than most, but don't fool yourself. I certainly do not.

[floatingslowly]

I was BORN DEAD.

true story.

[atari 2600]

Porkmarras already tried that one.

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

Porkmarras already tried that one.

yeah, but I'm actually telling the truth.

bilateral pneumothorax for the win!

[Pookie]

I think that some people, when they say they don't fear death, probably mean they don't think about it. How is it possible not to fear death?

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by Pookie

How is it possible not to fear death?

really though, what's there to be afraid of?

bliss or nothingness, either way I'm cool with it.

I don't want my final expiration to be painful, but I can't say I'm really bothered by it.

[atari 2600]

Thank you, Pookie, you get it. Everyone should acknowledge their fear of death.
Fear of Death is indeed natural and beneficial for self-preservation. But, as expressed and just to clarify again for all, denying or not dealing with one's fear of death is mentally unhealthy. It can also lead to other problems. Let's say a big rig wrecks badly in front of your car on the interstate. A typical driver (with unacknowledged fears) is going to crash trying to avoid crashing into the semi or their response is going to be frozen-up by fear and they will certainly crash some other way. A driver with less fear of death, with a little more space in-between their thoughts, will most probably cooly avoid wrecking if it's possible. but...Remember, there are other cars on the road and they'll probably wreck into you anyway, no matter how good and wise you are at the wheel.

Humans develop character armor and neuroses (i.e., personality) to guard against seriously contemplating death, so I get what you're saying floatingslowly, but I've just heard it about a thousand times.

So, ironically, the "you" in you, is actually just a reaction based on your fear. And you thought "you" were so unique!

I had a near-death experience by nearly drowing when I was seven. It's my first really complete memory (and wiped out some of the previous ones, I imagine) and you had the bilateral pneumothorax "born dead" thing, so I would also agree that you, like Kegmama, may have a little less fear, but let's not kid ourselves, shall we?

The good news is that you probably have a predispostion to have a knack for meditation.

[truncated]

Aside from philosophical points, as perspective on mortality seems highly personal, can one differentiate between a fear of physical death and a fear of regret of the unrealized? i.e., a fear of the experiences one may miss out on upon dying? There are obviously many facets to the concept of death, but that one, in its childishness, petulance, and selfishness, seems to be the crux of it. I will definitely admit to a reluctance to sacrifice the unknown.

That, and I don't want to be found in any positions/situations that compromise my dignity.

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by atari 2600

So, ironically, the "you" in you, is actually just a reaction based on your fear. And you thought "you" were so unique!

I never proposed that I was unique. I stated my feelings about it and that's about it, but thanks for the e-psychoanalysis.

I have no fear of dying and I have no reason to lie about my feelings on a stupid message board.. again, I don't want it to be BAD, but the actual "death" part doesn't bother me. there are plenty of things I am afraid of (bees, gamma rays, unsecured heights) but death just isn't one of my phobias.

to suggest it's because I simply haven't dwelled upon it deeply enough is a pretty big assumption on the part of others who really know nothing of me. I have chest tube scars that tell a different story and I've spent the larger part of my life pondering it. death truely does not make me afraid.

you're free to assume that I'm in denial, however I owe nobody but myself any real explanations.

just because YOU are afraid of dying, does not mean that everyone else is. maybe the truth here is that you thought "you" were just like everybody else...

*shrug*

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by truncated

There are obviously many facets to the concept of death, but that one, in its childishness, petulance, and selfishness, seems to be the crux of it.

Yes. As you know, psychologists have labelled that part of your false, (but necessary) self, the Ego.

I'm just presenting this for clarification purposes.

If one loses the Ego completely, then you better already be in a mental hospital or monastery, because schizophrenia is takin' you home.

Through silent meditation one can achieve "space" in the inner dialogue of the Ego. In this space are eternities of possibilities. And by developing it collectively (which will probably only happen after some mass-catastrophe(s) that do not quite wipe out everyone), our minds will eventually evolve if we do not completely destroy our environment and ourselves first.

[truncated]

But would an evolution be considered a tendency toward the id, or the supergo? Even that's debatable. But that's a tangent.

And to floatingslowly, aren't all of our seemingly unrelated fears extensions of a fear of death, insofar as logical fear is born of the assumption of an undesired consequence (the most extreme and inevitable being death)?

Just askin' for discussion purposes. I'm undecided on that myself, as most common fears are illogically based.

[atari 2600]

floatingslowly, go back and reread the post please...I'm writiing in a general sense...for all of us...sorry I wasn't clearer...

[atari 2600]

Originally Posted by truncated

But would an evolution be considered a tendency toward the id, or the supergo? Even that's debatable. But that's a tangent.

And to floatingslowly, aren't all of our seemingly unrelated fears extensions of a fear of death, insofar as logical fear is born of the assumption of an undesired consequence (the most extreme and inevitable being death)?

Just askin' for discussion purposes. I'm undecided on that myself, as most common fears are illogically based.

I think that yeah, a more highly evolved mind would contain more conscious elements of both. The labels are debatable though, as you mention. I'm more of a Jungian than a Freudian, personally.