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Old 01.11.2020, 01:10 PM   #12621
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fucking VAR, taking forever to tell us what everyone knew, but sucking all the emotion out of the game in the meantime.

there are ways to implement, does not run the same way in bundesliga.
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Old 01.11.2020, 02:24 PM   #12622
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I'm sick of it. No idea what the Bundesliga's doing differently but it's a disaster here.
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Old 01.11.2020, 02:25 PM   #12623
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wow, what a game, non-stop action

fucking spurs almost got several balls in! fortunately alison had the safest hands i’ve seen in a long time
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Old 01.11.2020, 02:29 PM   #12624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
I'm sick of it. No idea what the Bundesliga's doing differently but it's a disaster here.
to my recollection it worked much faster and less stupidly than this shitshow

e.g.

https://youtu.be/HKGTzLBrx0Y
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Old 01.11.2020, 03:18 PM   #12625
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It's involvement should be keot at a minimum, picking up on blatant stuff the referee might reasonably be expected to see but for whatever reason missed (like that Lewandowski incident) rather than checking stuff so marginal that no one in real time could ever be expected to spot it. VAR should be there to help the referee not replace him.
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Old 01.11.2020, 03:37 PM   #12626
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Went t'game today and the atmosphere was depressing. Too many negative fans willing to bring the team down rather than encourage them. We got three points and at the end of the day that's all that matters.

Also! I found an Everton supporters group in new Orleans! Gonna check them out whilst there "y'know, I've been to goodison before"
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Old 01.11.2020, 03:39 PM   #12627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
It's involvement should be keot at a minimum, picking up on blatant stuff the referee might reasonably be expected to see but for whatever reason missed (like that Lewandowski incident) rather than checking stuff so marginal that no one in real time could ever be expected to spot it. VAR should be there to help the referee not replace him.
yep yep yep 100% in agreement there

otherwise you’re gonna need a team of lawyers on each side.
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Old 01.11.2020, 03:47 PM   #12628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
It's involvement should be keot at a minimum, picking up on blatant stuff the referee might reasonably be expected to see but for whatever reason missed (like that Lewandowski incident) rather than checking stuff so marginal that no one in real time could ever be expected to spot it. VAR should be there to help the referee not replace him.

But where's the line? When a player is a whole foot offside?
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Old 01.11.2020, 04:03 PM   #12629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h8kurdt
But where's the line? When a player is a whole foot offside?
h8kurd, esq., for the prosecution
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Old 01.11.2020, 04:29 PM   #12630
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I belive that offside should only be given when, as the ball is played, there's daylight between the attacking player and the last defender. Any distance less than that and it becomes difficult to argue that the attacking team has gained any really meaningful advantage.
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Old 01.11.2020, 05:28 PM   #12631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
I belive that offside should only be given when, as the ball is played, there's daylight between the attacking player and the last defender. Any distance less than that and it becomes difficult to argue that the attacking team has gained any really meaningful advantage.
but now there’s daylight between the tip of the toe and the shade of the shirt, detectable only in a freeze frame, and everything gets cancelled

next measuring device: the atomic microscope
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Old 01.11.2020, 06:24 PM   #12632
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well until some common sense prevails, this continues to be offside

 


For context Mane (no 10) scored but VAR disallowed it as offside
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Old 01.11.2020, 06:40 PM   #12633
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Well wadda ya know?

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...e2d82955785eb7

FIFA is considering the most radical change to the offside law for a generation.

Discussions are taking place inside the world governing body that could have the law changed so that a player is offside only if there is “clear daylight” between them and the defending player.

If FIFA presses ahead, it would take the proposal to the International FA Board to ask for the system to be trialled and then secure a change to the laws of the game.

The “clear daylight” idea would mean a player was onside unless their whole body was in front of the defender with daylight between them — as it stands, an attacker can be judged offside by even their armpit being fractionally in front of the defender.

The arrival of video assistant referees, along with technology that is making rulings on players being millimetres offside, has prompted the talks to see whether attackers should now be given an extra advantage.

A source close to FIFA said: “This is being discussed internally at FIFA but there is not a final decision yet. It is our duty to keep thinking about the game.”

FIFA insiders feel that such a change could redress the balance in favour of attacking players.

The controversy over marginal offside calls by VARs reached a new level in the Premier League over the weekend when five goals were ruled out after players were judged to be fractionally ahead of the defender.

There have been 21 goals ruled out for offside by VARs in the Premier League this season, with six goals awarded after initial wrong decisions, so a negative balance of 15.

UEFA is pushing hard for VARs to not make such tight offside calls. It needs FIFA’s backing, however, and so far the world body has remained adamant that VARs should be used for all factual decisions, however marginal.

International FA Board secretary Lukas Brud said the protocol made clear that all VAR decisions should be taken only if they were clear and obvious, but that did not preclude marginal offsides.

He said: “It can be marginal if the video evidence clearly shows it.

“We will be communicating to all competitions that are using VAR some updates in the coming weeks, because we are observing some developments that are not particularly the way they should be.

“With VAR we see some things that are going in a direction that we may need to readjust.”

One of UEFA’s ideas is that the VAR protocol should be changed so that thicker lines are used when they are drawn by the Hawk-Eye operative to decide on offsides, with a clear gap between those lines.

So far, FIFA has not supported that suggestion, saying it would be wrong to allow flexibility on a black-and-white decision.

That is also why it may favour the “clear daylight” approach.

A similar idea has been floating around football for some time — it was even suggested by the former Premier League head of referees Philip Don at the start of the millennium as a rough guide for linesmen to be certain that a player was offside.

Graeme Souness, the former Liverpool and Rangers manager, proposed something similar at the weekend after being frustrated by the rash of disallowed goals.

He said on Sky Sports: “We’re in the entertainment business. What we’re doing is denying the people the enjoyment of goals.

“What we should do is say that if any part of an attacker is in an onside position they can’t be given offside.

“We cannot go on like this. There’s too much frustration going on.”

The idea has won some backing among Premier League clubs.

One chief executive said: “VAR as a label is getting an unfair press, it’s just applying the laws of the game … daylight between defender and attacker could work.”

The Times
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Old 01.11.2020, 08:06 PM   #12634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
well until some common sense prevails, this continues to be offside

 


For context Mane (no 10) scored but VAR disallowed it as offside
yeah i remember that fucking fiasco. was a mere couple of weeks ago or thereabouts, vs norwich. no? eta: NO, WATFORD.

how many atoms is the shade of the shirt before the tip of the toe?

-

and great article up there. something has to be fucking sorted. as it is right now, it’s untenable. turning the beautiful game into the commercial-filled stutter that is american football. which i can’t watch for that very reason.
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Old 01.11.2020, 08:41 PM   #12635
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The VAR thing is only part of it. An even bigger problem is that the offside rule itself is now so complicated that I've heard actual Prem players admit that even they don't fully understand it anymore.

Take a lot at the FA's official definition:

http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-...w-11---offside

 
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Old 01.11.2020, 09:24 PM   #12636
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Originally Posted by !@#$%!
and great article up there. something has to be fucking sorted. as it is right now, it’s untenable. turning the beautiful game into the commercial-filled stutter that is american football. which i can’t watch for that very reason.

I read a lot of chatter on West Ham forums from fans who are talking about still supporting WH in spirit but switching to the lower divisions when it comes to actually watching matches, just because they feel that VAR has destroyed the atmosphere in the Prem. Makes me wonder if the depressing atmosphere H8kurdt mentioned at Everton yesterday might be a similar thing. Mind you a stadium full of scousers is gonna be depressing at the best of times.
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Old 01.12.2020, 01:19 AM   #12637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
Take a lot at the FA's official definition:

http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-...w-11---offside
Even the FA doesn't understand those rules. I didn't read it entirely, it's 7AM on a Sunday morning my eyes should still be closed... But the second Q&A item is:
Quote:
Q2: Are a player’s arms/hands considered as part of the player’s body when judging offside?

The hands or arms are not included when judging offside position; this is true for all players including the goalkeepers. This view is supported by and helps assistant referees throughout the world as it is often difficult to identify the exact position of the hands and arms.
Haven't there been VAR decisions based on arrms or hands of the offender being further than the defender?

The Dutch competition wants to introduce the UK's VAR system, including offside checking, which requires additional cameras at the 16 meter line. I hope they will wait for another year until you've matured it.
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Old 01.12.2020, 01:36 AM   #12638
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They should merge the offside VAR technology with what they do in snooker when a player makes a mistake alnd the balls have to be repositioned to their original location, they use camera technology as well. They should do the same in football: when the referee blows the whistle , the players should return to the exact same position as when the assistant referee on the line lifted his flag.
And then the audience in the stadium can vote Yes No or Beer.
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Old 01.12.2020, 05:45 AM   #12639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
. Makes me wonder if the depressing atmosphere H8kurdt mentioned at Everton yesterday might be a similar thing. Mind you a stadium full of scousers is gonna be depressing at the best of times.

-_-

Hope Everton murder you lot next weekend now. Especially with a last minute winner ruled good by var

I think the problem was the after the absolute that was the derby the anger was still strong. Quick to moan if someone misplaced a pass, slow to celebrate if they had a good attempt.

We only really had the var issue at the beginning with Walcott's pen but I don't think that was the cause for the mood. It'll get better. In Ancelotti we trust.
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Old 01.12.2020, 07:05 AM   #12640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h8kurdt
-_-

Hope Everton murder you lot next weekend now. Especially with a last minute winner ruled good by var

Haha.

You'll probably be favourites and you usually do us over. But it's one of those where either team on the day is perfectly capable of being diabolical enough to hand it to the other on a plate.
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