[jimbrim]

SYRFox - Is it Kromestar - Zion Dub you're thinking of? That's a great tune.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Glice

I'll show you. I'll show you HARD.

Also: I'd imagine that most people who spent any time smoking green in their early 20s is aware of that list of dub. Dubstep is new, and exciting; dub is good, in small doses (without green. Or is that just me?)

a) are you going for the amerikangod dickshots route here?

b) you'd be surprised, and in regards to dub, I am sure folks know about Augustus Pablo and Scratch, the Professor and Scientist, but what about Crucial Bunny or Count Ossie and the Mystic Revelation of Rastafari? Ras Michael and the Sons of Negus or Joe Gibbs?

further, InI always will ever promote original Roots artists over UK imitations any day

[Glice]

Dubstep isn't really an imitation. Dub is generally much slower, dubstep inherits a lot of 2-step/ garage/ grime ideas. Have you listened to any dubstep, or are you criticising based on the name? Because, to be honest, I was very late in the game with dubstep because I was put off by Burial and the name.

For a) I think you're confusing my response to Herr Rail with what follows.
For b) I suspect you're right, but you shouldn't be. Either way, I'm much more about dubstep than dub these days.

[SYRFox]

Originally Posted by jimbrim

SYRFox - Is it Kromestar - Zion Dub you're thinking of? That's a great tune.

nope that's not this, but that's a similar vibe indeed. The rhythm in the track I'm looking for was more 2-step oriented if I remember well. But the wobble bassline was in the same style, a bit slower.
(Zion Dub is a great tune though, thanks for that)

[SYRFox]

Originally Posted by Glice

Because, to be honest, I was very late in the game with dubstep because I was put off by Burial and the name.

Same here. Plus it turned out I had a very confused idea of the genre - for a long time glitch hop, wonky and dubstep (I know those labels are ridiculous - especially wonky - but hey...) I thought were the same, were in fact I pretty much only listened to wonky.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Glice

Dubstep isn't really an imitation. Dub is generally much slower, dubstep inherits a lot of 2-step/ garage/ grime ideas. Have you listened to any dubstep, or are you criticising based on the name? Because, to be honest, I was very late in the game with dubstep because I was put off by Burial and the name.

For a) I think you're confusing my response to Herr Rail with what follows.
For b) I suspect you're right, but you shouldn't be. Either way, I'm much more about dubstep than dub these days.

I am aware of the sonic differences, the 'imitation' cap was loaded. Honestly though, while I am not against dubstep (after all, 'who is not against you is for you." Jesus) but I am a bit skeptical. To me, its sort of like a white-washed, suburbanite version of dub music, which is totally and even ridiculously unnecessary. Why not get into dub music directly? Further, why adopt many of the cultural/linguistic/style elements of one culture and exploit it for your own subculture's gain? If dubstep scene can use dub terms/phrases/concepts/images why not just go all out and go dub? Further, I hold dubstep to extremely critical standards, just as I do local reggae bands (who generally suck I might add)

as a rastafari, I am especially concerned with those who ignorantly wear rastafari colors/sounds and are know-nothings. If these folks at least accompany their dub step with authentic dub artists, then they will get the full picture in clarity.

that is my two cents

[Glice]

The thing is, London (where dubstep comes from) has an absolutely massive Jamaican community. So does Bristol, another hotspot for dubstep. In the same way that the two cities produced loads of DnB (heavy on the dub beats), so too do they produce dubstep. I know people still make dub, and I'm sure a lot of them do it very well but, let's be honest, its prime was in the late-70s. Dubstep isn't a load of people taking the piss out of Jamaican dub or Rastafari, but using some of the ideas as part of music's continuum.

Dubstep isn't 'exploiting' another culture, it's expressing its own, which happens to be massively saturated in dub. I could easily patronise you and say you wouldn't understand that, not having spent any time in London, but I'll say I do think you need to respect that you can't comment on a culture you haven't lived in or near.

Edit: I should also mention that the actual dub content of most dubstep I hear these days is pretty small, except in the reverbed drums.

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by Glice

The thing is, London (where dubstep comes from) has an absolutely massive Jamaican community. So does Bristol, another hotspot for dubstep. In the same way that the two cities produced loads of DnB (heavy on the dub beats), so too do they produce dubstep. I know people still make dub, and I'm sure a lot of them do it very well but, let's be honest, its prime was in the late-70s. Dubstep isn't a load of people taking the piss out of Jamaican dub or Rastafari, but using some of the ideas as part of music's continuum.

Dubstep isn't 'exploiting' another culture, it's expressing its own, which happens to be massively saturated in dub. I could easily patronise you and say you wouldn't understand that, not having spent any time in London, but I'll say I do think you need to respect that you can't comment on a culture you haven't lived in or near.

Edit: I should also mention that the actual dub content of most dubstep I hear these days is pretty small, except in the reverbed drums.

seen. the UK is a hotbed for the evolution of early and pioneering dub tactics..

I guess as a rastafari purist, I like to dig into the dub vaults rather then get up on new artists. Generally with reggae, we stick in the vaults and with the established artists catelouge, and also the original artists are still putting out fantastic albums. Don Carlos just put out one.. Burning Spear.. Steel Pulse.. Israel Vibes etc etc these artists still tour and put our albums. I am going to see Ras Michael and the Sons of Negus next week!!!

that being said, I rarely dig into new stuff, since there is still so much old stuff in the vaults, especially with dub.

also, the exploitation, in Rastafari we are VERY VERY sensitive of this. If DUBSTEP artists use rastafari culture/image/language/concepts we would prefer they come to Rastafari directly, and this not racial/ethnic, this is cultural. Rastafari are as much upset with fakin jamaicans or boogie black folks as with white kids from the burbs wearing One Love t-shirts to the country club

[SYRFox]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

I am aware of the sonic differences, the 'imitation' cap was loaded. Honestly though, while I am not against dubstep (after all, 'who is not against you is for you." Jesus) but I am a bit skeptical. To me, its sort of like a white-washed, suburbanite version of dub music, which is totally and even ridiculously unnecessary. Why not get into dub music directly?

Ultimately, what you are implying is that music should not evolve: why not simply go to the very base of it, since every evolution based on it is precisely based on it. Noise rock should have not existed since it mixes elements of noise and rock, and so people should have listened to pure noise or pure rock instead, etc.

Further, why adopt many of the cultural/linguistic/style elements of one culture and exploit it for your own subculture's gain? If dubstep scene can use dub terms/phrases/concepts/images why not just go all out and go dub? Further, I hold dubstep to extremely critical standards, just as I do local reggae bands (who generally suck I might add)

as a rastafari, I am especially concerned with those who ignorantly wear rastafari colors/sounds and are know-nothings. If these folks at least accompany their dub step with authentic dub artists, then they will get the full picture in clarity.

that is my two cents

Mixing elements from different cultures has been a very common thing for the past ten years, see the massive african tribal music influence on a lot of Brooklyn bands - though I know most of you think they suck, so I won't name any of them to avoid further trouble on that point. I see it more of an hommage than something else; besides, we're genuinely talking about music and not culture/religion/etc here, so if it works as a music, it's enough for me. Was Trans Jerusalem Express by Lift To Experience a bad album because its christian texts were not said by a priest? I don't think so.

[ni'k]

having listened to nearly all of it now, that dubstep 2010 torrent i linked to mostly sucks.

i want to like dubstep, and wonky. i want weird WEIRD I SAY, WEIRD music of this nature. no fucking tits and party shit. no party shit whatsoever. no fucking cheesy tv/film samples, no positive, happy or "light" stuff. no hip hop stuff.

some of the names dropped so far have been good.

[jimbrim]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

If DUBSTEP artists use rastafari culture/image/language/concepts we would prefer they come to Rastafari directly, and this not racial/ethnic, this is cultural. Rastafari are as much upset with fakin jamaicans or boogie black folks as with white kids from the burbs wearing One Love t-shirts to the country club

well, you don't have anything to worry about as dubstep doesn't really use rastafari culture/image/language/concepts

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by SYRFox

Ultimately, what you are implying is that music should not evolve: why not simply go to the very base of it, since every evolution based on it is precisely based on it. Noise rock should have not existed since it mixes elements of noise and rock, and so people should have listened to pure noise or pure rock instead, etc.


Mixing elements from different cultures has been a very common thing for the past ten years, see the massive african tribal music influence on a lot of Brooklyn bands - though I know most of you think they suck, so I won't name any of them to avoid further trouble on that point. I see it more of an hommage than something else; besides, we're genuinely talking about music and not culture/religion/etc here, so if it works as a music, it's enough for me. Was Trans Jerusalem Express by Lift To Experience a bad album because its christian texts were not said by a priest? I don't think so.

no not all. just in Rastafari we are very very sensitive to these kinds of things. People wearing ites-gold-green but have NO idea what it means iyah! Them never know about poor Marcus! Them never love King Selassie I! So we are a bit sensitive.

Musical sound and taste can evolve freely, absorb mutual styles etc.. cultures can share with each other readily BUT in regards to Rastafari culture, if a Dubstep artist calls their band Nyabinghi or through around Ethiopia-Zion motiffs, we in Rastafari would like them to come to the authentic fountains of Rastafari and get the truth from the source, rather then mascarade around in some mix up mix up thing

I-man is ALL for the cultural mingling, and I have not beef with DUBSTEP so long as dubstep scene recognizes the original flag bearers, and that they do NOT ignorantly use Rastafari cultural elements like Ites-Gold-Green, Ras Speak, Rastafari terminology, Rastafari dress/style WITHOUT being Rastafari, and we in Rastafari movement hold up ALL outsiders to these standards of authenticity.

[demonrail666]

Why not get into dub music directly?

Dubstep isn't a way into dub but an extension out of it. I've yet to meet a dubstep fan who isn't more than familiar with the names you put on that list earlier.

Further, why adopt many of the cultural/linguistic/style elements of one culture and exploit it for your own subculture's gain?

Those very culture/linguistic/style elements you mention have been absorbed within British inner cities for decades. There's a massive carribean influence in cities like London, Birmingham, Bristol. Dubstep is more an expression of that than any kind of exotic borrowing. You're in danger of imposing the kind of racial segregation that may take place in LA on to what goes on here.

If dubstep scene can use dub terms/phrases/concepts/images why not just go all out and go dub?

Because Sonic Youth shout 'Shake', does that mean they should sound like Bill Haley?

EDIT: Poo, I appear to have pretty much duplicated Glice's post.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

also, the exploitation, in Rastafari we are VERY VERY sensitive of this. If DUBSTEP artists use rastafari culture/image/language/concepts we would prefer they come to Rastafari directly, and this not racial/ethnic, this is cultural. Rastafari are as much upset with fakin jamaicans or boogie black folks as with white kids from the burbs wearing One Love t-shirts to the country club

Rastafari doesn't hold the exclusive dominion on Jamaican culture. A quick Google search suggests that Rasta are 5% of the Jamaican population. You might as well criticise dancehall/ ragga for building on Rasta culture. I know a lot of the roots guys hold Rastafari very dear, but I'd imagine that the criticism of, say, Spragga Benz or Ward 21 wouldn't be because of their use of slang but because of their spiritual slackness.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be sensitive to religious and spiritual beliefs - but they shouldn't attempt to prohibit musical expression because of the similarity of linguistic or musical vernacular.

Big up man like SYRfox. Hold tight bredrin'.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Because Sonic Youth shout 'Shake', does that mean they should sound like Bill Haley?

Lately, I wish they bloody did.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by ni'k

no fucking tits and party shit. no party shit whatsoever. no fucking cheesy tv/film samples, no positive, happy or "light" stuff. no hip hop stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c3Sm-R5KII

[SuchFriendsAreDangerous]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Those very culture/linguistic/style elements you mention have been absorbed within British inner cities for decades. There's a massive carribean influence in cities like London, Birmingham, Bristol. Dubstep is more an expression of that than any kind of exotic borrowing. You're in danger of imposing the kind of racial segregation that may take place in LA on to what goes on here.


Because Sonic Youth shout 'Shake', does that mean they should sound like Bill Haley?

EDIT: Poo, I appear to have pretty much duplicated Glice's post.

I told you, its not racial/ethnic. In Rastafari, we have more issues with black folks and Caribean imitators than anything else! Black white or brown Rastafari does not like folks representing Rastafari imagery (Lion of Judah motiffs, Ites-Gold-Green, 'One Love' etc etc) and sound (Ras Speak, rastafari music like drum and shaker, the one drop drum beat etc etc) without some experience or empathy with Rastafari culture.

In Dubstep, some folks are as stylishly 'Rasta' as some folks in hip hop dress/act like gangsters but have never been in trouble in they life!

Originally Posted by glice

Rastafari doesn't hold the exclusive dominion on Jamaican culture. A quick Google search suggests that Rasta are 5% of the Jamaican population. You might as well criticise dancehall/ ragga for building on Rasta culture. I know a lot of the roots guys hold Rastafari very dear, but I'd imagine that the criticism of, say, Spragga Benz or Ward 21 wouldn't be because of their use of slang but because of their spiritual slackness.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be sensitive to religious and spiritual beliefs - but they shouldn't attempt to prohibit musical expression because of the similarity of linguistic or musical vernacular.

We criticize dancehall MUCH MORE than dubstep! all boogie cultures that use pieces of rastafari get the fyah burn pon them! hotta fyah red red!
You misunderstand, its not that Rastafari have exclusive control of JA culture, BUT Caribeans do not have access to Rastafari culture by proxy. Rastafari culture is just that, Rastafari culture, it happens to be Caribean but they are by no means synonomous. We in Rastafari check ALL folks who floss our colors, talk our talk, sing our sings, but are NOT rastafari, as Rastafari is a very very heartical religious/political/social movement.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous

Rastafari is a very very heartical religious/political/social movement.

it also sounds quite paranoid. surely Rastafarianism can't be so fragile a faith that it's troubled by a few non-Rastas wearing red gold and green hats.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by demonrail666

it also sounds quite paranoid. surely Rastafarianism can't be so fragile a faith that it's troubled by a few non-Rastas wearing red gold and green hats.

"Dude! Karma. Kar-ma."
"Oh. I get it..."

[wellcharge]

meh, suchfriends isn't insanely far off. it's not rare for someone like rusko to play a song like *jahova while taking a large rail of ketamine. skream has lot's of tunes with samples of rastas talking about religious topics and he certainly is not one himself. it's a huge stretch to recommend listening to older dub artists instead of dubstep because they aren't the same genre and don't negate the value of eachother in any way. there isn't as much religious content in the music now as there was 5 years ago when it was a smaller scene and much more dub oriented. it's still a fact though that's there's loads of examples of rasta things being used by artists who have nothing to do with that belief.

*top tune by the way