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Old 03.21.2019, 08:43 PM   #221
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may asked to leave? by her own party? just heard
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Old 03.22.2019, 02:20 AM   #222
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That'll be on top of the 17 million people who asked for the same thing, 2 1/2 years ago.
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Old 03.22.2019, 09:31 AM   #223
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Now that I think about, why not a second vote? If the government believes in the certainty of the people's will then the result will be the same? Riiiight?
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Old 03.22.2019, 11:09 AM   #224
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Over 3 million people signed the petition to revoke article 50. Whoa!
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Old 03.23.2019, 07:41 AM   #225
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the washington post’s european correspondent skewers theresa may and blames her for everything

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...a41_story.html

choice quotes (these are just mostly insults, there are long explanations in the article) :

She is not sensible, she does not know what she is doing, and, increasingly, she doesn’t seem to be entirely sane either.

[...]

almost everything about Brexit — from the nature of the deal she negotiated to the divisions in her party and her country — is very much her fault.

[...]

She is not to be pitied: She is the worst prime minister in living memory, presiding over a crisis of her own creation.

[...]

The list of her mistakes is not short.

[...]

But her errors go even deeper. In fact, all of the events of the past two years have been shaped by a decision she made, by herself, following bad advice, at the very beginning of this process.

[...]

Her decision also created potential problems for anyone who trades with Britain or works with Britain — and for Brits who trade and work in Europe. But she was not sorry: She accompanied her decision with a speech that called “a citizen of the world” nothing more than “a citizen of nowhere” and immediately alienated a large part of the country.

[...]

She went on to alienate almost everyone else. Until this week, nearly three years after the referendum, she made no effort to reach across the aisle and include opposition parties in the planning for this momentous national change.

[...]

Although the E.U. has been entirely transparent about its negotiating goals from the beginning, she kept hers secret. She tried, and failed, to prevent parliamentary scrutiny of her deal.

[...]

She does not respond to pleas, advice, suggestions. Columnist Matthew Parris has described her as “the Death Star of modern British politics,” a black void that sucks in people and ideas and never provides a response.

[...]

Her secrecy and incompetence have created ill will in Europe, and real anger in the House of Commons, some of whose members have belatedly tried to take control of the Brexit process.

[...]

she spent her whole life, motivated by loyalty to the Tory party, training for this job. Now she has it — and she has used it to steer her country into a humiliating crisis.

[...]

The slogan of the “Leave” campaign, back in 2016, was “Take Back Control.” But Europe has now taken back control of May’s botched Brexit. And however it ends, it won’t be a success.



lmao

now i finally get it
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Old 03.23.2019, 10:54 AM   #226
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Making "taking back control" is not particularly wise given the complete and utter failure of the country's political process regarding Brexit.

Can we have MORE control from Europe, please? Some competent politicians would be absolutely great rather than the constant Labour/Tory farce of the last 3 years. Two years completely fucking wasted and the promise of a weaker economy and country to come. Get May and Corbyn to fuck, seriously. Cannot imagine two worse people to have navigated this crisis.
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Old 03.23.2019, 02:05 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GravitySlips

Can we have MORE control from Europe, please? Some competent politicians would be absolutely great rather than the constant Labour/Tory farce of the last 3 years

In light of the last 3 years, I admit this is very hard to argue against.
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Old 03.23.2019, 02:19 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
In light of the last 3 years, I admit this is very hard to argue against.
curious, i know you voted to leave, but would you be a remainer at this point?
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Old 03.23.2019, 02:35 PM   #229
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No, I'd still vote Leave. mainly on the issue of democratic accountability - not that that too isn't currently being made a mockery of in Parliament.
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Old 03.23.2019, 02:40 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
No, I'd still vote Leave. mainly on the issue of democratic accountability - not that that too isn't currently being made a mockery of in Parliament.
oh i see you meant that europe could give you a better exit deal than the idiot may & co.

ps i did not know till i read that article that it was may's choice to leave the customs union [edited some errors out]
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Old 03.23.2019, 02:55 PM   #231
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I'm in favour of leaving the customs union, too. I would back no-deal. It's not just that I consider the EU undemocratic, I disagree with how it does business. I disagree with it on a whole host of issues. I disagree with a lot of how the British Parliament does lots of things but, again, there's a democratic process that, in principle anyway, at least allows for the possibility of change.
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Old 03.24.2019, 05:24 AM   #232
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I don't understand how you can still be fine with a no deal when all the signs point that it'll be an absolute total mess. When people say "oh it'll be fine eventually" how can they not wonder at what cost in the immediate aftermath?
__________________


Down with this sort of thing.
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Old 03.24.2019, 06:48 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
I'm in favour of leaving the customs union, too. I would back no-deal.
oh then i dont understand your reply to gravity slips

but anyway, how would you deal with a hard irish border then? isnít that a result of leaving the customs union? and isnít this what supposedly nobody wants? iím new at this...
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Old 03.24.2019, 09:02 AM   #234
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The hard border would be an option but so far neither the UK, Ireland or the EU show any interest in enforcing it.

I think Britain needs radical reform. The customs union prohibits that and, as I don't see any evidence of the EU reforming itself, I want out. There's risks, but I'd prefer those to the slow strangulation by the EU, with no chance of change.
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Old 03.24.2019, 09:14 AM   #235
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option how? without an agreement and exiting the customs union you get a hard border by default. no?

i’ve read of talks of a fast “electronic” border but that’s still vaporware
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Old 03.24.2019, 09:17 AM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
I think Britain needs radical reform. The customs union prohibits that and, as I don't see any evidence of the EU reforming itself, I want out. There's risks, but I'd prefer those to the slow strangulation by the EU, with no chance of change.

As a Scot, I think that now (and I was previously ambivalent about it), I'd use similar arguments for wanting Scottish independence after all this. Previously I'd erred on the side of preferring radical reform to the UK electoral system rather than the risks of outright independence, but it just feels difficult to deny the complete fracture in sentiment between Scotland and elsewhere at the moment. That said, it looks like similar divides are seen throughout different areas of England, too (London vs the North East, for example).

Interesting times ahead - lots of people are going to be angry, regardless of what happens next.
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Old 03.24.2019, 09:21 AM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
option how? without an agreement and exiting the customs union you get a hard border by default. no?

i’ve read of talks of a fast “electronic” border but that’s still vaporware

It's only as hard as the resources put in place to enforce it. Remain-favouring MPs are threatening it but without any public will for it I see no reason why they would.
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Old 03.24.2019, 09:25 AM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GravitySlips

Interesting times ahead - lots of people are going to be angry, regardless of what happens next.

I think that's inevitable now. This is an irreconcilable split, greater even, I think, than the current one in the US, over Trump.
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Old 03.24.2019, 10:09 AM   #239
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so the problem with the backstop was the potential return to the customs union then?
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Old 03.24.2019, 10:26 AM   #240
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so the problem with the backstop was the potential return to the customs union then?

Basically, yes.

I've linked this argument for not signing the customs union cos it's not from a 'well he would say that wouldn't he?' Leaver, but from someone from the Remain camp who still rejects it:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...imports-brexit
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