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Old 10.17.2017, 02:04 PM   #21741
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Originally Posted by Rob Instigator
hahaha. I forgot. my mistake. I like 3 or 4 PKD books. his ideas were better than the writing.

i agree. i think he’d agree if he was alive. had a bunch of alimonies to pay or something. wrote, knowingly, in a huge rush

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Originally Posted by Rob Instigator
I stil contend william gibson is dull as fuck.

contend all you want but neuromancer alone changed the landscape of the culture forever and helped science fiction break through to the mainstream like never before

sure he had cohorts and predecessors and all that context which should not be forgotten, but there was a before and an after him no doubt. and part of it was because he was hugely readable, not just smart.

plus at heart he’s a bit of a poet which made for his colorful images and vivid descriptions and all that. i mean. the first lines of neuromancer: “the sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel”. brilliant. you’re old enough to remember that picture so well (and the sound).

i contend that your doubling down on “boring” is boring
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Old 10.17.2017, 02:36 PM   #21742
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btw im not trying to say that gibson is above criticism but the blanket one you use so often isn’t helpful— would be good if you aimed at the actual jugular, i.e., criticized specifics, which you do so well in your published reviews
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Old 10.17.2017, 05:34 PM   #21743
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Originally Posted by Rob Instigator
Am I the only one that thinks Blade Runner OG looked amazing, but was like 85% BORING FUCKING SHIT? The last 20 mins are great, but oh my fuck is it just a dull fucking movie for the most part. I get it's importance, and I have seen it countless times, but everytime I think, this movie is duller than 2010...

Also, the book Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep SUCKS. In fact, everything I have ever read by william gibson SUCKS. Fucking boring ass writer. deadly dull. I think people overvalue BladeRunner because it was so different visually.

Blade Runner is not boring. It’s majestic and incredible.

Also, “Do Androids Dream of Elecrric Sheep?” was written by Philip K. Dick. You’re thinking of “Neuromancer.” An easy mistake if you’re not intimately down with the genre. “Neuromancer” is actually a MUCH better book than “DADOAS?” But Blade Runner > Neuromancer. Make sense? No? Good.

I don’t like the book much. I’ve managed to convince myself that it’s great in between readings, but I always go back and realize it’s not.

“The Man in the High Castle” is better.
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Old 10.17.2017, 05:39 PM   #21744
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Originally Posted by !@#$%!
btw im not trying to say that gibson is above criticism but the blanket one you use so often isn’t helpful— would be good if you aimed at the actual jugular, i.e., criticized specifics, which you do so well in your published reviews

William Gibson is not boring. “The Differnce Engine” is one of my favorite books.

But PKD is indeed a bit overrated in hindsight. A lot of his writing was kooky and haphazard in a weird, babbling way. I read his stuff and I like the ideas, but I wish Bradbury or someone had been manning the old typewriter.

Still a PKD fan, but not as much as I once was.

Love Blade Runner and Blade Runner 2049 more than any of what he wrote.

Never saw much of the “Man in the High Castle” series, but I did watch enough to know that it was straying even further from the source material than Blade Runner was from “Androids.” Only in this case I like the book more.

Love the movie of Minority Report. Can’t temember the story very well at this point.

PKD is definitely inconsistent.

Proud of you for standing up for “Neuromancer.”
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Old 10.17.2017, 06:14 PM   #21745
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i didn’t stand up for neuromancer, just for accuracy and useful criticism (count zero and mona lisa overdrive were a bit of a letdown, btw, like they were driven by the inertia of the first book— still entertaining though)
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Old 10.17.2017, 09:05 PM   #21746
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Old 10.18.2017, 05:20 AM   #21747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
i didn’t stand up for neuromancer, just for accuracy and useful criticism (count zero and mona lisa overdrive were a bit of a letdown, btw, like they were driven by the inertia of the first book— still entertaining though)

Well, whatever. You were right about it.
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Old 10.19.2017, 12:54 AM   #21748
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Just saw the new Blade Runner 2049. I feel a bit conflicted. Beautiful visuals and cinematography and a great soundtrack by Johann Johannsson. But the story made little sense and honestly, I think the movie would have been better if it wasn't a sequel. I honestly believe that Harrison Ford didn't need to be in the movie, and it would have been better if they had just removed him entirely. Also the CEO guy in the watery room was spouting some serious bullshit lines. Who wrote that nonsense?

Still, Villeneuve is a master and he did the original a lot more justice than most directors would have.
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Old 10.19.2017, 06:18 AM   #21749
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Originally Posted by gogologogolo
Just saw the new Blade Runner 2049. I feel a bit conflicted. Beautiful visuals and cinematography and a great soundtrack by Johann Johannsson. But the story made little sense and honestly, I think the movie would have been better if it wasn't a sequel. I honestly believe that Harrison Ford didn't need to be in the movie, and it would have been better if they had just removed him entirely. Also the CEO guy in the watery room was spouting some serious bullshit lines. Who wrote that nonsense?

Still, Villeneuve is a master and he did the original a lot more justice than most directors would have.

Johan Johannsson did not do the score. He left the project officially a few months ago. Pretty sure it was Hans Zimmer and Benjamin Wallfisch.

Anyway, your issues with the move make no sense to me. Remove Harrison Ford? Like, just him, or remove Deckard from the film’s mythology? No tie-in to the original? Uh. No. I don’t think that would have been better, or good.

It sounds like you’re saying they should take a great story and turn it into not a story at all, or something totally different than what it was. And I disagree. The story was excellent, and without Ford it would have been considerably less so. Without any Deckard/Rachel/Tyrell tie-ins at all it would have been... not a story.

So yah, I’m confused.
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Old 10.19.2017, 09:34 AM   #21750
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Oh Sev, you really do take things to heart when someone dislikes (not even that harshly really) something you love don't you.

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Old 10.19.2017, 10:11 AM   #21751
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i sort of agree with some of the things gogol bordello said

the fact that it’s a sequel does hamper things. forces you to remember stuff that you shouldn’t need. could have been shown a little instead of just told (in very small letters). i know the original movie well so i didn’t need to ask myself— “who is this guy the dude is killing?” — but non-fans had to, and did not understand.

the lines that leto spouted appeared as serious bullshit but not really. he’s been described as having been modeled after a silicon valley entrepreneur— and yeah he’s like an elon musk gone bonkers.

the problem with not understanding what he’s saying, again, comes from this being a sequel, and the background not made fully clear. we know from the original that replicants were being used to conquer new words. leto here throws that back in but again it’s telling not showing. and it’s a bit too much information to just tell. could have used some of the time from the mood shots to show.

so even near the end when deckard asks where are we going and the sociopath android says “home”, took me a bit to realize they were going off world not to tyrell headquarters (or wherever their company headquarters were). from what happens here, the pools, the new model revealed etc, it would look like hq building is on earth.

as for the need for harrison ford— all that he does in the end is go to the dotter. his job is basically to inform sad eyes that he’s not the messiah. and it provides a nice nostalgic filler but it’s not really essential to the plot is it? i mean, i loved the whole part where he’s in it, enjoyed the most his line about the dog, but that’s just candy for fanboys like me. and why did he have to be the last shot of the movie? i don’t know. the whole rigamarole about him being tempted with cgi rachel is just a ploy for him to reveal the whereabouts of the baby. it’s all about the damn baby. he’s a diversion— a great one for fans, but a diversion in the end.

it’s a wonderful movie and i enjoyed it greatly but it does have its limits. rather than going into denial of other perspectives i find more interesting to see why people read things in certain ways.
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Old 10.19.2017, 10:15 AM   #21752
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Dog Star Man

One of those films where I sort of forget I'm watching a film while watching it. Saw it on a big screen so the hugeness just became even huger.

 
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Old 10.19.2017, 10:51 AM   #21753
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^^ i remember starting that, and quitting midway, and now i’ve forgotten it

it as from a dvd on an old tv, before i got a thx plasmaand as forever corrupted, so pretty confined

so— how was it?
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Old 10.19.2017, 11:27 AM   #21754
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This was a proper projection in a cinema club. Very clean print. It's something that either absorbs you or it doesn't. Some people did walk out, which is normal with a film like this. No reflection on them or the film; it either grabs you hard or it drives you to distraction. But if you can zone into it, it's a real epiphany film.
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Old 10.19.2017, 01:49 PM   #21755
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Gogol Bordello. Hah!

I think the best parts of the movie (as in the original), are the part where the movie is exploring the atmosphere of cyberpunk dystopian LA. As far as I'm concerned the movie did that so well that it didn't need much of a story. It seems that by tying it in to the first movie they constrained themselves. Part of what I liked about the first movie was how they left whether Deckard was a replicant or not ambiguous. Now that it's basically canon, it sort of takes something away for me.

Part of my criticism stems from my sheer technical incredulity of what's going on in the movie. What would be the point of building replicants with fully functioning sex organs? Why would the replicants being able to reproduce be the thing that causes a revolution, when the replicants apparently have to listen to what humans say? They already have human emotions, was that not enough?

Didn't realize Johannsson was removed from the project. Still some great sound design. Hans Zimmer must be a very busy man.
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Old 10.19.2017, 08:05 PM   #21756
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Originally Posted by gogologogolo
Gogol Bordello. Hah!

I think the best parts of the movie (as in the original), are the part where the movie is exploring the atmosphere of cyberpunk dystopian LA. As far as I'm concerned the movie did that so well that it didn't need much of a story. It seems that by tying it in to the first movie they constrained themselves. Part of what I liked about the first movie was how they left whether Deckard was a replicant or not ambiguous. Now that it's basically canon, it sort of takes something away for me.


Ok, THIS is a legitimate complaint that I can totally understand and respect. I wasn’t old enough to go to R-rated movies when the first BR came out, so I’m not sure about this, but I *believe* the “is he or isn’t he?” element of the ending, with the Edward James Olmos overdub and the origami unicorn was part of one of the later cuts of the film (“Directors” or “Final” or somesuch), but ever since I first saw that version, that part — that lingering question — has ALWAYS been one of my favorite things about the movie. Indeed, it’s THE THING that took the movie over the top for me, from “solid, classic cult SF film” to “fucking masterpiece and one of the best movies ever.” (Well, OK, that and Rutger Hauer’s phenomenal performance as Roy Batty.)

When I first hear that “2049” was going to definitively answer that question, I was SUPER wary, and even a little bit pissed off. The original is a masterclass in cerebral storytelling from eons before the likes of “Inception” because it left reality in the hands and minds of the viewers. I was NOT ready to be happy about the answer to this question.

But I personally feel that it was handled beautifully, and it won me over. Partially because Deckard was such a smart part of the actual narrative, and that “is he/isn’t he” question was replaced by several other, larger questions aboit life and humanity and society and, y’kbow, rights.

[/quote]
Part of my criticism stems from my sheer technical incredulity of what's going on in the movie. What would be the point of building replicants with fully functioning sex organs? Why would the replicants being able to reproduce be the thing that causes a revolution, when the replicants apparently have to listen to what humans say? They already have human emotions, was that not enough?
[/quote]

***SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT SEEN BLADE RUNNER 2049 AHEAD***

...
..
.

Ok, well... No offense, but I think you may have missed something along the way. Not all replicants “obey” and even those who do (like K) have the capacity to not obey. Meaning, they have free will. Meaning, they’re just slaves. Mass-marketed slaves.

The point of the “messiah” child is that it symbolizes that (to quote Jurassic Park in that one scene everyone quotes) “life finds a way.” And if these Replicants are capable of creating life, they are evolving. So they’re not tools. They’re people. And the “messiah” child is a symbol of this that the older replicants (who, by the way, are totally not under any obligation or compunction to obey anything or anyone) want to use to ignite a revolution. Obviously all replicants, new and old, are capable of rebelling, lying to their “owners” and so on. The child is a way to wake them up from their existential sleep, and show them that they are deserving of freedom.

It’s a bit grandiose, and what we see in 2049 is — potentially — just a kind of interlude between this x-factor event (the natural birth of a replicant, by replicants) and the “Revolution” that those cave-dwelling old school Replicants who rescued K and tasked him with killing Deckard are hoping to kickstart.

But K/“Joe” obviously has free will. He made a different choice. He Kobayashi Marued the operation, and did something different.

Abyway, the Wallace character wants to create Replicants who can reproduce because he has a god complex and he wants to take over the universe. Reproducing replicants would exponentially increase his rate of productivity. He *needs* that to happen in order to meet his own personal, insane goals of playing God, and to meet his practical goals of, ah, taking over the galaxy.

Both sides want and need the key, the “messiah” child.
The biblical parable of all of this is pretty clear, but really, I think if you’re wondering why a reproducing replicant is so important, you might have missed something in the movie. Which nobody could possibly blame you for. I mean, I waited for this fucker for eons and went at my earliest possible opportunity, and even though it had my complete and undivided attention from beginning to end, it was LOOOONG.

Maybe a re-watch is in your future?

Quote:
Didn't realize Johannsson was removed from the project. Still some great sound design. Hans Zimmer must be a very busy man.

Yeah, I expect so. He seems to do everything these days. Think he was booted from Justice League in favor of Danny Elfman, which seems like a gargantuanly stupid idea. But whatever.

I was REALLY looking forward to a Johannsson score, and I was bummed when I heard he wouldn’t be involved. Big time. The “Arrival” score has been in rotation for the better part of a year now. A-fuckin’-maxing.

Still, Zimmer rarely doesn’t do an incredible job, and I loved the score and sound design as well. Might even buy it.
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Old 10.20.2017, 01:56 AM   #21757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gogologogolo

Didn't realize Johannsson was removed from the project. Still some great sound design. Hans Zimmer must be a very busy man.

From what I know (which isn't much) he doesn't actually do much of a score per film. He has a fair few "underlings" who will write pieces and he'll approve of it etc. I think it's only a few songs that he actually 100% scores himself.

Think about it, it's not like he's gonna be holed up beavering away at 3-4 films a year always trying to write something new.
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Old 10.20.2017, 05:08 AM   #21758
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Originally Posted by h8kurdt
From what I know (which isn't much) he doesn't actually do much of a score per film. He has a fair few "underlings" who will write pieces and he'll approve of it etc. I think it's only a few songs that he actually 100% scores himself.

Think about it, it's not like he's gonna be holed up beavering away at 3-4 films a year always trying to write something new.

Most of his songs are pretty elemental and basic too. Like, the “theme” from Batman Begins/Dark Knight/Dark Knight Rises was really just two notes, played in repeated swells between sort of ambient horns and drums and the occasional segment of feedback.

Ditto for Man of Steel (eight notes that time), and I forget what he did for Interstallar and Inception and Gladiator and the other million films he’s worked on.

I do with Johan Johansson would have had the BR 2049 score. Seemed like a match made in heaven. Maybe he’ll release what he was working on for it at some point. I’m not sure if the early trailers — pre-Johannson’s departure — featured his music, but they seemed to be based on reimaginings of the original Vangelis score. That score doesn’t turn up until the very end of the movie, so I wonder if those trailers do contain snippets of what Johan was putting together for the film. Hmm.

Anyway, if he were to release a BR-centric project, or a collection of unused demos, I’d totally buy that shit.

That Arrival soundtrack is one of the best I’ve heard in recent memory.
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Old 10.21.2017, 04:03 PM   #21759
demonrail666
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demonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's assesdemonrail666 kicks all y'all's asses
 


Shaft

Enjoyable enough but of more interest now for its almost documentary-like location footage of 70s Harlem and Greenwich Village.

 
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Old 10.21.2017, 04:37 PM   #21760
ilduclo
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ilduclo kicks all y'all's assesilduclo kicks all y'all's assesilduclo kicks all y'all's assesilduclo kicks all y'all's assesilduclo kicks all y'all's assesilduclo kicks all y'all's assesilduclo kicks all y'all's assesilduclo kicks all y'all's assesilduclo kicks all y'all's assesilduclo kicks all y'all's assesilduclo kicks all y'all's asses
Nice soundtrack, too
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