[Genteel Death]

Originally Posted by E. Noisefield

Of course it's ridiculous, you stick-in-the-mud... and as useless as any comparison. But I did it, and that's that so lighten up.

Besides, they're both Butch Vig recordings of semi-similar bands making a break for pop success. Nevermind doesn't sound anywhere near as good as Dirty, though it is a freaking monolith.

No. They don't sound like records by similar bands. If they do, please tell me.

[the ikara cult]

When Nirvana started out Nevermind was how they wanted their music to be recorded. SY never imagined making something as slickly produced as Dirty, it took 10 years to get to that stage. Theyre very different bands in terms of ethos in any case. But still, people who say Dirty is a better album than Nevermind are (often) trying a little too hard to be cool.

[gmku]

I know many people in certain elements would hate me for my rediscovered and unabashed love of The Jesus Lizard.

[E. Noisefield]

Originally Posted by the ikara cult

When Nirvana started out Nevermind was how they wanted their music to be recorded. SY never imagined making something as slickly produced as Dirty, it took 10 years to get to that stage. Theyre very different bands in terms of ethos in any case. But still, people who say Dirty is a better album than Nevermind are (often) trying a little too hard to be cool.

I catch your drift, and honestly I'm not even sure I agree with what I said. I think it's better produced, and a better example of the music of that era, but the actual songs on Nevermind are really and truly great.

I like SY more than I like Nirvana, so I probably prefer Dirty and definitely listen to it more often, but I wouldn't put anyone down for thinking Nevermind was better.

[gmku]

I think Nevermind is better but I tend to reach for Dirty before Nevermind simply because Nevermind was so overplayed, not only "out there" but in my own home.

[E. Noisefield]

Originally Posted by Genteel Death

No. They don't sound like records by similar bands. If they do, please tell me.

Depends on what you mean by similar. But no, you're right that they've got very different vibes.

[Mortte Jousimo]

I think also Dirty is better album than Nevermind, although I like both albums. I don´t think they´re totally similar, but not also far away to each other. I think it´s just natural to make comparisons, I can say for example that Beatles Sgt. Pepper is better album than The Cure Kiss Me although they´ve made in the different times and I like them both.

[EVOLghost]

Originally Posted by E. Noisefield

Am I the only one here who unabashedly loves every single album SY has ever done?

I'm in that same boat. However, when it comes to SY records I like to play, Dirty is one that I listen to the least. I like the album (minus Youth against Facism), but it kind of sounds weird when compard to the rest of their albums.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by E. Noisefield

Am I the only one here who unabashedly loves every single album SY has ever done?

I love also every Sonic album, but I think some of them are better than the others.

[E. Noisefield]

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo

I think also Dirty is better album than Nevermind, although I like both albums. I don´t think they´re totally similar, but not also far away to each other. I think it´s just natural to make comparisons, I can say for example that Beatles Sgt. Pepper is better album than The Cure Kiss Me although they´ve made in the different times and I like them both.

Well put. Besides, it's kind of fun to look at similarities and differences between different music.

[E. Noisefield]

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo

I love also every Sonic album, but I think some of them are better than the others.

Well yes, this is defnitely the case. I have my favorite too. And Dirty is definitely one of my least favorites, but I still love it and SY's my favorite band. Is it really so weird that I prefer Dirty to the most played-to-death album of my lifetime?

[gmku]

No. Played to death albums, however great, are not that interesting.

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by E. Noisefield

Well yes, this is defnitely the case. I have my favorite too. And Dirty is definitely one of my least favorites, but I still love it and SY's my favorite band. Is it really so weird that I prefer Dirty to the most played-to-death album of my lifetime?

Well, I don´t have any Sonic-album I have played-to-death. I try to avoid that also in all the albums I think it´s great. But of course when I was very young I listened a lot for example some Creedence Clearwater, Jimi Hendrix and Pink Floyd -albums. But I think there was a time, when I didn´t listen them for years (maybe ten), so when I have listened them again quite recently (maybe once in five years) they´ve sounded again so great!

[Mortte Jousimo]

Originally Posted by gmku

The Last Record Album is ok but it's definitely not their best. It's far inferior to the first few albums.

By the way, I really love Time Loves a Hero song and I have been wondering, is the whole album as great, have you heard it? Of course it´s very typical in the end of the seventies album that there are some great songs, but the whole entity is mediocre.

[Murmer99]

SY were excellent in the 80s. After that, They only had their moments for me. The only album I'd say is "great" after that decade is Sonic Nurse.

[gmku]

Originally Posted by Mortte Jousimo

By the way, I really love Time Loves a Hero song and I have been wondering, is the whole album as great, have you heard it? Of course it´s very typical in the end of the seventies album that there are some great songs, but the whole entity is mediocre.

I auditioned it one time when I was thinking of buying it. I didn't like it at all. They were really done by this time.

[E. Noisefield]

Originally Posted by Murmer99

SY were excellent in the 80s. After that, They only had their moments for me. The only album I'd say is "great" after that decade is Sonic Nurse.

Wow. Really? I think it's really hard not to see the sonic parallels between Goo and DDN. Great transition record. Then they did the alternative thing for a while. Then A Thousand Leaves, an album that was as bizarre and exciting in the '90s as Bad Moon Rising was in the '80s. Murray Street is every bit as good as their best '80s album, only in a different way. And I actually think Nurse was their second or third worst album ever, though I still think it's great.

Only liking '80s youth is only liking 1/3 of the band's output. I don't really get it, but whatever flats your boat.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by E. Noisefield

Only liking '80s youth is only liking 1/3 of the band's output. I don't really get it, but whatever flats your boat.

I see what you're saying but I share Murmer's apathy about much of SY's post 80s stuff, to the extent that I now only own their records up to DN. I wouldn't say they became a bad band after that, I'm just not that interested in them. I can't quite put my finger on what it is but I feel that they lost something after the 80s; a certain aggression, maybe. That's probably just a consequence of their evolving maturity but I don't see the point in continuing with them simply out of loyalty to their earlier output.

[Murmer99]

I'm definitely a "loyal fan"... in that I'll always love them no matter what. They're probably my favorite band of all time actually. However, what demonrail said about them maturing is very accurate. They lost that spark they had early on imo... I never said I disliked everything after that, but most of it pales in comparison. I'm certain that Rain on Tin will always be one of my favorite songs of all time... NYC ghosts and flowers is solid but doesn't impress me too much as a whole. And... I know this isn't a very popular opinion but I find A Thousand Leaves quite dull. If anything, majority of it does get by on atmosphere... and is nowhere near the nightmarish masterpiece bad moon rising is! Society is a Hole wipes its ass with every song on ATL combined. I've always felt that confusion and bmr represent the essence of SY. But then there's always sister and DDN... after that, they didn't lose my interest or anything. They're a great example of what I think most bands should be like... unpredictable, challenging, forward thinking. They had their moments, but I still can't see how it even comes close for some... to their 80s output.

[E. Noisefield]

Originally Posted by Murmer99

I'm definitely a "loyal fan"... in that I'll always love them no matter what. They're probably my favorite band of all time actually. However, what demonrail said about them maturing is very accurate. They lost that spark they had early on imo... I never said I disliked everything after that, but most of it pales in comparison. I'm certain that Rain on Tin will always be one of my favorite songs of all time... NYC ghosts and flowers is solid but doesn't impress me too much as a whole. And... I know this isn't a very popular opinion but I find A Thousand Leaves quite dull. If anything, majority of it does get by on atmosphere... and is nowhere near the nightmarish masterpiece bad moon rising is! Society is a Hole wipes its ass with every song on ATL combined. I've always felt that confusion and bmr represent the essence of SY. But then there's always sister and DDN... after that, they didn't lose my interest or anything. They're a great example of what I think most bands should be like... unpredictable, challenging, forward thinking. They had their moments, but I still can't see how it even comes close for some... to their 80s output.

I totally get what you guys are saying. They changed quite dramatically in the '90s. The change may not have been altogether pleasant for fans of the spacey, unsettling, unhinged sound of their early stuff. I myself have even thought, at times, that '90s SY *just isn't SY*. It's a completely different beast.

To make sense of all of these changes, I started thinking about SY differently. I started thinking of them based on the standards of classic "pop". I started equating them, in my head, to bands like the Beatles. I know they're absolutely nothing alike, but if you view their '90s output as just once facet of the whole, then it just makes them seem all the more dynamic and eclectic. Even the Beatles had "shitty" records ("shitty" for the Beatles still being far better than average) like Magical Mystery Tour, where they just got lost for a bit in the sensation they'd created. Imagine Dirty as SY's MMT.

Then '00s SY is another matter altogether. They became something different all over again. So we've got the post-hardcore art-noise SY, the alterna-grunge SY, and the "godfathers of indie" SY who just jammed and had fun like the grateful dead.

Having all of these archetypes in one is like having the leather-coat, Liverpool pub Beatles, the perfect-pop band Beatles, the psychedelic Beatles, and the frustrated, angsty,"grown-up" Beatles shown on the White Album and Let it Be and Abbey road. I know comparing the two is a stretch, but SY is so BIG for me that I can literally think of them as three (maybe four if you count the SYR SY) bands in one, and that is an exciting thought! It helps me appreciate even their worst moments. Besides, like I said, Goo is a perfect transition from DDN into more mainstream alternative.

Personally I think "Sister" is their best album, and I'm definitely more inclined to think of their'80s output when considering my favorite albums ever. But there is gold all over their catalog. I honestly, when I think hard about it, can't tell you which SY is my favorite! The '80s, obviously the best track record. But the '90s yielded ATL, which is one of my favorite albums ever made, and the '00s had Murray Street and SN and RR and tons of incredible SYR material. So I don't even know which "version" of the band I like best, but that's ok with me.