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Old Today, 05:10 AM   #5581
Robert Schunk
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Seriously, though, President Trump should regard the current uprising in France, which is proving contagious to the rest of the EU, as a warning with regard to his tax plan, which is congruent with Macron's reduction of the French wealth tax in favor of a "green" gasoline tax against the French working class, which has produced this working class uprising. Should the reduction in taxes paid by the rich result in a budgetary deficit to be paid for by a reduction or elimination of Social Security or Medicare or Medicaid benefits, the results in the US would be a skyrocketing crime rate that would cost more to suppress than the amount gained by eliminating the benefits.

Further, the current uprising in France should also serve as a lesson to the Democrats about the dangers of converting the US from a federal republic to a French-style unitary state (by means such as eliminating the Electoral College or even revising the boundaries of the several states so as to allow the unbridled Tyranny of the Majority so carefully proscribed by the Constitution), the resulting internal disorder in a nation as culturally diverse as our own (in the light of Colin Woodard's American Nations, an imperial-scale state within its own borders) would be immensely destructive. So far as I can see, France's centralized state structure produced what our federal system prevented: revolutionary change of a violent nature as opposed to the largely peaceful electoral revolution we have undergone.
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Old Today, 07:04 AM   #5582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor
Not going to convict him......how do you convict anyone when charges haven’t been filed? Where do you anticipate charges are coming from?_
it doesnt matter. im not talking about any specific charges. im talking about the democrat hopes (watch the video to see what im talking about) that trump is gonna be impeached and not finish his term,russia, bla bla, etc.

even if the house found something to hang on to dear leader (likely, as he sees the law and “so-called judges” as a continuous impediment to his caprices) it’s a huge load of wishful thinking to assume the senate would do anything other than protect trump. we already saw that same scenario with clinton. we already saw the senate close ranks for kavanope. the “truth” will break along party lines, regardless of ifs ands or buts.

what im saying is that unless he croaks from too many a cheeseburger, the orange blob will finish his term and stand for reelection in 2020, and if russia is all the democrats have to offer, he’ll win, regardless of what people repeat to each other in this thread
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Old Today, 07:13 AM   #5583
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Originally Posted by Robert Schunk
I must say that, if the Democrats want to win in 2020, they must:

1) nominate Hillary Clinton as their Presidential candidate, as she won the popular vote in 2016, she'll no doubt win the popular vote by an even larger margin in 2020 now that Trump's transgressions have been made public;

2) the new Democratic House of Representatives must entirely concentrate their efforts on investigating Trump and all matters relating to him, in order to assure the minorities who support the Democratic Party that the humiliation of White Liberaldom which occurred in 2016 will be avenged, and that it is the positive duty of minority Democrats to sacrifice their own material interests towards this end;

3). all opposition to the new Democratic House of Representatives MUST be fiercely denounced as emanating from the utterly contemptible ignorance and wickedness of the White workers and farmers who are of no use to a country so advanced as to prevent our bicoastal urban moral leaders being further embarrassed in front of their European friends.

hahahahaaaahaaaa

ok, that was funny, yeah
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Old Today, 10:04 AM   #5584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !@#$%!
im talking about the democrat hopes (watch the video to see what im talking about) that trump is gonna be impeached and not finish his term,russia, bla bla bla

and if russia is all the democrats have to offer, he’ll win, regardless of what people repeat to each other in this thread

Over & Done—The Beginning Of The End—Tipping Point—Walls Are Closing In—BOMBSHELL—Impeachment......is this the video you are referring to? A fantastic job of editing, hard to believe so many hang-hung their hopes on impeachment. I’m 50 years old and I guess I will never understand where such vile hatred comes from regrading political individuals and issues???


(but her emails)
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Old Today, 10:14 AM   #5585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytor Peltor
Over & Done—The Beginning Of The End—Tipping Point—Walls Are Closing In—BOMBSHELL—Impeachment......is this the video you are referring to? A fantastic job of editing, hard to believe so many hang-hung their hopes on impeachment. I’m 50 years old and I guess I will never understand where such vile hatred comes from regrading political individuals and issues???


(but her emails)

And I'll never understand how you can say that with a straight face whilst still supporting Trump. The guy whose whole political movement is based on hatred and dividing people. The hypocrisy is astounding.
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Old Today, 03:18 PM   #5586
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It's clear to me that on Friday there was very strong hints of evidence that actually points to Trump. This was a big turning point in the revelations from Mueller.

Am I wrong?
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Old Today, 03:19 PM   #5587
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Because I haven’t done anything to support Trump!

Go back to the beginning of this thread and you won’t find any post -by me- supporting Trump. It wasn’t until March or April of this year that I started posting in this thread......because of the hypocrisy and lies......because the things being said -like in the video- simply WERE NOT TRUE!

Or better yet -like the video- just because you say it DOESN’T MAKE IT TRUE!

Not once have I tried to make things personal and I haven’t cursed or attacked anyone. There is nothing hateful about wanting a secured border, they need to start building the wall today! Matter of fact, Democrats Voted To Do That In 2006. Obama and Clinton gave lip service to the need of a secured border/building a wall......but they just dangled the carrot.

Sure, there are things I don’t like about Trump, but the same is probably true about a great deal of our politicians......they just don’t have the media banging the drum against them 24 hours a day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by h8kurdt
And I'll never understand how you can say that with a straight face whilst still supporting Trump. The guy whose whole political movement is based on hatred and dividing people. The hypocrisy is astounding.
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Old Today, 03:26 PM   #5588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skuj
It's clear to me that on Friday there was very strong hints of evidence that actually points to Trump. This was a big turning point in the revelations from Mueller.

Am I wrong?
there is always a turning point but trump is not going to be removed from office

remember how in the blasey testimony repuke senators would say shit like “i believe her! i believe that something happened to her... but i think it was with a different person”

lmao

look, kellyanne is gonna write everyone’s script and even if impeachment happens there will be no removal from office in the senate. big if.

sure tactics are tactics and obstructing evil is good but this can’t be all that democrats have to offer the nation
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Old Today, 04:08 PM   #5589
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I agree with you to a certain extent, and these revelations do mostly center on him directing hush money payments, which most people won't care very much about.

We'll hear much more about Russia/collusion in due course.....and maybe nobody will give a fuck then either, because who really cared about that disaster known as the Helsinki Summit?

If he can get away with Helsinki, he can get away with anything.
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Old Today, 04:55 PM   #5590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skuj
I agree with you to a certain extent, and these revelations do mostly center on him directing hush money payments, which most people won't care very much about.

We'll hear much more about Russia/collusion in due course.....and maybe nobody will give a fuck then either, because who really cared about that disaster known as the Helsinki Summit?

If he can get away with Helsinki, he can get away with anything.
yes he can get away with anything and he knows it

he’s known it since before—since he said he could shoot someone in the middle of fifth avenue and not lose voters

just the other day tillerson was saying how trumpet ignora the law is impulsive and doesnt like to read. he turns the news into “tillerson lazy and dumb as a rock”. the media plays along, and as far as his base goes, he’s made of teflon.

sure, reducing his supporters to just the base is part of the whole of defeating him. but it’s not enough.

energizing the democratic base is okay, but as the latest election showed, it’s not enough because the opposition also gets energized (thanks, hilary... jeez... guess she learned from comey)

you have to peel away his base and offer a compelling proposition without the hatemongering and division—democrats have to be FOR something, not just against trump.

this has been the case on & on & on & on. today is no different. if pictures of trump sucking putin’s engorged cock were to surface, it would still be no different—the media enemy of the people etc etc. bytor would say they are clearly photoshopped.

people at this point will believe whatever they want to believe.

and yes many still believe the carnival barker

democrats need to make a better more compelling offer with a better more compelling person

it boils down to that

going on and on about russia... is ultimately a waste of time
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Old Today, 05:54 PM   #5591
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Except that Putin is having a field day while Trump does nothing about it. There's a real danger in that. I bet most Trumpists think that Putin is a great guy who means no harm to USA. "What's wrong with collusion anyway?"
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Old Today, 06:46 PM   #5592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skuj
Except that Putin is having a field day while Trump does nothing about it. There's a real danger in that. I bet most Trumpists think that Putin is a great guy who means no harm to USA. "What's wrong with collusion anyway?"
i agree that putin is a shit, but if you read the link i posted you above (worth a read i swear) you'll see that clinton had similar appearance of improprieties with china, and now we don't even talk about it, but we talk about monica's cumstained dress instead as the real historic derailer. which it was.

please understand that we're on the same side of the issue, so i don't need to be told that putin manipulating our elections is a disgrace (it is), but please also understand that i'm trying to advance the notion that focusing on this is as a way to salvation is just gonna give us 4 more years of trumpism

show me that im wrong and i'll join the chorus, but right now it seems to me a waste of time and energy and a dead end doomed to die in the senate. but yeah, the investigation needs to continue, sure.

eta: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_U...ce_controversy
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Old Today, 06:53 PM   #5593
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Old Today, 06:57 PM   #5594
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and skuj, here's the link i meant. take a look it's a smart guy with good analysis

https://musaalgharbi.com/2018/03/01/...-lessons-2020/

post-election his points are still valid
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Old Today, 07:06 PM   #5595
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I trust you, and I generally respect your opinion here.....but.....

The very first line of that linked piece starts with the Bytor/tesla tag-line "There is no proof of collusion" or words to that effect, to which you and I and others often counter with "but he hasn't released his report yet, so how do we know?"

Please convince me to read past the first line.
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Old Today, 07:16 PM   #5596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skuj
I trust you, and I generally respect your opinion here.....but.....

The very first line of that linked piece starts with the Bytor/tesla tag-line "There is no proof of collusion" or words to that effect, to which you and I and others often counter with "but he hasn't released his report yet, so how do we know?"

Please convince me to read past the first line.
come on. this is not the kindergarten. not gonna bribe you with cookies.

well, it is the kindergarten in a way, full of screaming children, but i am trying to move on from that nonsense into more interesting conversations that might have actual value.

here's something to consider: it's not just bytor

https://www.newscientist.com/article...ias-after-all/

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...tism-listening

alright! i have hope for you man.

also, the first line is a quote from hegel. eta i mean from marx lol. ok
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Old Today, 07:29 PM   #5597
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I get it: The Dem mission cannot simply be "impeach Trump", and hanging everything on Mueller. They have to have a vision for the country post-Trump (and the only thing that keeps me sane these days is that there will actually be a post-Trump era, one day), and I don't know wtf that is yet.

(I hope O'Rourke runs.)
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Old Today, 07:54 PM   #5598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skuj
I get it: The Dem mission cannot simply be "impeach Trump", and hanging everything on Mueller. They have to have a vision for the country post-Trump (and the only thing that keeps me sane these days is that there will actually be a post-Trump era, one day), and I don't know wtf that is yet.

yessir! that is the thing that can win 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skuj
(I hope O'Rourke runs.)

tbh i don't know much about him but i hope he's not some feckless snowflake. we need a brawler, but not an angry one. a happy warrior. someone who will run circles around trompetta.

i had my hopes pinned on lizzie warren but with those new parameters in mind i realize she lacks the charisma to take it all. it's okay, she's a professor. as long as she's busily setting policy in the background i hope the dems can present a compelling package of exciting ideas that will mobilize the workers without alienating business. tall order lololol. but yeah. it's gotta be that. i do not want socialismo... prefiero muerte XD

(but seriously, social democracy is great, government ownership of the means of production is not. i like a public option for health care, medicare for all might be too much and we're not there yet)

okay. thanks for listening man. not asking that we agree on all points, but it's good to have lucid allies in this mess.
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