[hevusa]

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

believing and knowing are different things alltogether

Yeah, believing is fantasy since you need 0% fact. But it REALLY REALLY negatively affects the world.

[SONIC GAIL]

How am I negativly affecting the world by believing? If I did not believe I would do whatever i felt like. I would steal from people to support my drug habit. I would kill people who piss me off. I would ditch my kids and go do whatever I felt like. I would not be compelled to be nice to anyone. I would just take what I want. If I ended up in jail for these tings Id just kill myself. Why not. No consequences.

I know it is hard to see the trees in this forest but people believing in god have done good things in the past and present. Was Johnny Cash a negative affect on the world? Its the stories you do not hear that cause you to see it that way. Yes people have had massive wars over god throughout history, but if they did not have god to fight about they would be fighting about something else.

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

How am I negativly affecting the world by believing? If I did not believe I would do whatever i felt like. I would steal from people to support my drug habit. I would kill people who piss me off. I would ditch my kids and go do whatever I felt like. I would not be compelled to be nice to anyone. I would just take what I want. If I ended up in jail for these tings Id just kill myself. Why not. No consequences.

I know it is hard to see the trees in this forest but people believing in god have done good things in the past and present. Was Johnny Cash a negative affect on the world? Its the stories you do not hear that cause you to see it that way. Yes people have had massive wars over god throughout history, but if they did not have god to fight about they would be fighting about something else.

Contrary to what most believers think, religion and morality have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other. In fact religion only detracts from the purity of morality. A non-theist can't blame anything on or get forgiven by an external source, so they tend to be MORE HONEST AND MORAL in their actions than believers because "the buck stops with them" so to speak.

When your belief system is based around a lie (God) you get fucked up consequences like:
- the invention of things that don't exist: souls, heaven, hell, angels, demons, prophets, talking snakes, virgin births, 72 virgins, the list goes on and on and on and on.
- laws that don't make sense: does liquor affect me differently on Sundays?, homosexuals can't marry each other or adopt, don't ask don't tell, marijuana being illegal, there used to be laws against interracial marriage, etc. etc. etc.
- war: MY lie about God is more correct than YOUR lie about God

Stop fucking contributing to this bullshit. The world needs more honesty, not more God.

[SONIC GAIL]

Originally Posted by hevusa

Contrary to what most believers think, religion and morality have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other. In fact religion only detracts from the purity of morality. A non-theist can't blame anything on or get forgiven by an external source, so they tend to be MORE HONEST AND MORAL in their actions than believers because "the buck stops with them" so to speak.

When your belief system is based around a lie (God) you get fucked up consequences like:
- the invention of things that don't exist: souls, heaven, hell, angels, demons, prophets, talking snakes, virgin births, 72 virgins, the list goes on and on and on and on.
- laws that don't make sense: does liquor affect me differently on Sundays?, homosexuals can't marry each other or adopt, don't ask don't tell, marijuana being illegal, there used to be laws against interracial marriage, etc. etc. etc.
- war: MY lie about God is more correct than YOUR lie about God

Stop fucking contributing to this bullshit. The world needs more honesty, not more God.

What do you think happens to us when we die? Why do you have morals if there is no consequence to not having them? Why even bother to stay alive?

And I did not make up those lies, or contribute to them or even agree with them.

And I don't blame god for anything Or the devil. I don't care about the devil or whatever (he could be a metaphor for humanity for all I know) I make my choices not a diety.

Where does morality come from?

By blaming religious groups for causing bad events you are making yrself as bad they are.

It is still the same argument really

"Your god is wrong mine is right"

"There is no god you're wrong and I am right"

You are still not contributing any peace. If I can be accepting of others thoughts and beliefs than I expect the same courtesy from them. I don't go around knockin on doors and preaching but if it comes up I will say what I believe and if people don't like it i shake the dust from my feet and moveon with my life. It is of no concern to me.

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

What do you think happens to us when we die?

I don't know. There is no way for a human to know.

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

Why do you have morals if there is no consequence to not having them? Why even bother to stay alive?

What makes you think there are no consequences if there is no God and afterlife? We possess logic and reasoning, that is what sets us apart from animals, and that is all we need to form morals. No God needed to fuck shit up.

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

And I did not make up those lies, or contribute to them or even agree with them.

By being a theist and believing in something that has 0% basis in reality you are directly contributing to these things being in existence.

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

Where does morality come from?

Our logical minds. That is the reason morality changes and religion doesn't. Because as we gain more information we change our minds.

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

It is still the same argument really
"Your god is wrong mine is right"
"There is no god you're wrong and I am right"

I have no God, and I don't claim that there is no God (there is no way to know that answer and I am not a liar). So no, it is not the same argument.

Try honesty in regards to God and the world will be a better place.

[GeneticKiss]

I don't think SONIC GAIL or those like her are contributing to the world's problems simplying by having a religion or just believing in a God. It's the ones using religion to justify hateful/violent actions who are causing havoc and they're just assholes to begin with. As I'm sure we all know, some people give other people like them a bad name, and the innocent are lumped in with the guilty.

That said, I cannot agree with the idea that humans need to be threatened with some sort of divine punishment in order to stay in line. That tells me you have more faith in God than humanity; i.e. your very flesh and blood, that of your children, lovers, friends, and the basis of everything you know.

[SONIC GAIL]

I'm done with you for the day. I have work to do. You can argue your point to me all day but I will STILL BELIEVE in god. I am not trying to make u believe I just do not like to be generalised into a group of ppl who's actions are not mine and I give no funding to
One of the reasons I post on these thrteads is because no one else except suchfriends seems to give a damn about god and I do! I respect your position but don't pigeon holle me.

[hevusa]

All I can say is I hope you can find the strength to be honest about God one day. *wink*

[hevusa]

Originally Posted by GeneticKiss

I don't think SONIC GAIL or those like her are contributing to the world's problems simplying by having a religion or just believing in a God.

Believing in something that cannot be known directly affects reality, morality and the world as we know it for believers and non believers alike. When people form their belief system around something that has 0% objective evidence for existing then we are all cast in that dishonest shadow that is created.

TIME FOR THE ERA OF SPIRITUAL HONESTY! The era of "I don't know" when it comes to an omnipresent being existing. An honest era.

[SONIC GAIL]

I think it might turn out to be an honest era

[jon boy]

Originally Posted by StevOK

This local Teabagger nutjob I work with also happens to be a preacher, and is planning on giving a series of sermons dealing with the evils of Islam.

http://www.newschannel6now.com/Globa...asp?S=13188009

 

There's a video in the link, too.



I sooo wish that I could organize protests like they did for that nutjob in Florida that wanted to burn the Quran.

what the fuck is the matter with some people?

[Lamont Cranston]

their name includes cock spelt backwards

[space]

cock rap AWOL.

[ann ashtray]

The issue isn't with religious people that choose to keep their beliefs to themselves, it's with the larger majority that feels the need to "save the world" and want to work their beliefs into public school systems, science, politics, and other places things that can't be proven (sometimes bordering on utter fairy tale) don't belong.

If ya believe Jesus died for yr sins, great. Until ya can prove it keep that stuff away from me and possibly any future kids.

I live in America, I've already heard yr version of why I'm here + that "Jesus loves me" a million times. A million + one will not make a difference.

[tesla69]

Originally Posted by SONIC GAIL

All god requires is belief. .

I think the difference between individual spiritual consciousness and the death-bureacuracies of organized religion are opposed to each other. the organized religions don't require belief, they require SUBMISSION.

If you ask me if I believe in God who is basically santa-claus in a white robe (old white man with a big beard) then I don't believe.

But if you ask me if I think there is the potential for a larger universal consciousness than the little specks of dust called humans that flash into and out of existence in galactic time so quickly as to almost not exist then I'd say yes, because I tend to think consciousness came before form. Rudy Rucker discusses the math of multiple dimensions and we are stuck in 3 (sometimes I think we get peeks into the 4th) at the bottom of a gravity well.