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Old 12.23.2009, 08:49 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the ikara cult
He seems like a nice guy etc. But you cant say something that thickheaded and expect to be left alone.

I never said that I expected him to be left alone.

I said that I was attempting to reason with him.

that has no bearing on what you choose to say.

yr the captain of yr own ship, cap'n.

(crayons, see post above)
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Old 12.23.2009, 08:51 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floatingslowly
I never said that I expected him to be left alone.

I said that I was attempting to reason with him.

that has no bearing on what you choose to say.

yr the captain of yr own ship, cap'n.

I think, somehow, i wasnt responding to you alone
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Old 12.23.2009, 09:00 PM   #63
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oh well I still want that men in black light thingy. can you imagine the chaos? I can.
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Old 12.23.2009, 09:13 PM   #64
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I can't take a picture of it. I'd ruin the memory of anyone who looked at the picture.
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Old 12.23.2009, 11:03 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jon boy
it really doesnt get anymore 'disneylandesque' than this:





 



 

yeah, this looks real somber.. especially since they probably came literally on a tourist package.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the ikara cult
Suchfriends
I have Armenian and Kurdish friends, and there are no remnants of the genocides (or scant few in the case of the kurds) that their ancestors suffered because the killers either destroyed the evidence or carried out the crimes in such a crude and agricultural way that all that was left were the bodies themselves. I would normally suspect someone on here saying something like that was being deliberately provocative and juvenile but you dont strike me as that type. Speak to someone whose family members have been cleansed then come back to us, alright?


listen, I appreciate your seriousness and depth in this thread, but you obviously misunderstand where I am coming from. This is not needless antagonism, as much as some folks here believe these camps to be significant memorials, I see them equally as an insult to those who survived. I am not sure if those armenians who are of my sister Church would really not prefer to come to gallows and shot up, blood stained walls as much as a proper memorial and cemetery.



 

(much more tasteful, reverent and respectful than the fucking barbed wire do you think?)

I think along the way people on this thread have misunderstood my intentions and motivations. I fucking DESPISE nazis.. it is one of the few paradoxes in my life, I love all people, I judge no one, but when it comes to nazis, I get primal. Fuck nazis.. Fuck Nazi-Sympathy!

I would prefer that instead of keeping maintained and alive the buildings and tools and fences which imprisoned and murdered MILLIONS of people who were both my religious and ethnic relatives, that we put up more tasteful memorials, proper cemeteries to honor the dead who have hallowed the ground, and for all eternity destroy every single last vestige of the nazis, until they only exist in our nightmares of our past, rather then as some rusted buildings in rural Poland, Germany, Ukraine and Czech Republic/Slovakia. Fuck nazis and their buildings, the people would much prefer a cemetery, thats why we didn't preserve EVERY camp, the vast majority were destroyed, plowed over and are currently cemeteries and memorials.. I did not make up this idea, it is what has already been done extensively..

What should people prefer, to come see the place that slaughtered they relatives still standing triumphantly, or see the headstones and memorials of the ancestors triumph on fresh, hallowed and higher ground?
Quote:
Originally Posted by floatingslowly
crucifixion was no less barbaric than zyklon b.

what's with people who wear crosses?


well, if I saw Jews walking around with SS badges and swastikas maybe I could see that point. Further, the jews and eastern europeans were not sacrificed to a cause, they were murdered in cold blood. The martyrs die for what they believe in, nazis killed regardless of belief, simply for existing


SERIOUSLY, I AM SORRY TO THOSE WHO ARE OFFENDED BY THIS POST, but this is how I feel, and it truly comes from the best of intentions...
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Old 12.23.2009, 11:05 PM   #66
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This is where suchfriends takes the methods of consumerism as the substance of consumerism. HOW DARE SOMEONE FEEL HUMBLED AND HOLY ON A TOURIST PACKAGE!!!
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Old 12.23.2009, 11:06 PM   #67
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the nazi's themselves destroyed many of the camps to try and hide their crime.
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Old 12.23.2009, 11:14 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
 

yeah, this looks real somber.. especially since they probably came literally on a tourist package.


listen, I appreciate your seriousness and depth in this thread, but you obviously misunderstand where I am coming from. This is not needless antagonism, as much as some folks here believe these camps to be significant memorials, I see them equally as an insult to those who survived. I am not sure if those armenians who are of my sister Church would really care to come to gallows and shot up, blood stained walls as much as a proper memorial and cemetery.

I think along the way people on this thread have misunderstood my intentions and motivations. I fucking DESPISE nazis.. it is one of the few paradoxes in my life, I love all people, I judge no one, but when it comes to nazis, I get primal. Fuck nazis.. Fuck Nazi-Sympathy!

I would prefer that instead of keeping maintained and alive the buildings and tools and fences which imprisoned and murdered MILLIONS of people who both my religious and ethnic relatives, that we put up more tasteful memorials, proper cemeteries to honor the dead who have hallowed the ground, and for all eternity destroy every single last vestige of the nazis, until they only exist in our nightmares of our past, rather then as some rusted buildings in rural Poland, Germany, Ukraine and Czech Republic/Slovakia. Fuck nazis and their buildings, the people would much prefer a cemetery, thats why we didn't preserve EVERY camp, the vast majority were destroyed, plowed over and are currently cemeteries and memorials.. I did not make up this idea, it is what has already been done extensively..


well, if I saw Jews walking around with SS badges and swastikas maybe I could see that point. Further, the jews and eastern europeans were sacrificed to a cause, they were murdered in cold blood. The martyrs die for what they believe in, nazis killed regardless of belief, simply for existing


SERIOUSLY, I AM SORRY TO THOSE WHO ARE OFFENDED BY THIS POST, but this is how I feel, and it truly comes from the best of intentions...

like i said to you in my pm, i know youre as anti fascist as I am, you dont need to clarify that.

I just think your conception of the importance of history is off. Genocide is genocide, whoever it happens to, The Holocaust is lucky that the real structures are still around, these things are real, not theoretical but the same thing is happening now in Darfur and in North Korea. The camps of the Reich need to be maintained because fascism is as real now as it was then
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Old 12.23.2009, 11:18 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the ikara cult
like i said to you in my pm, i know youre as anti fascist as I am, you dont need to clarify that.

I just think your conception of the importance of history is off. Genocide is genocide, whoever it happens to, The Holocaust is lucky that the real structures are still around, these things are real, not theoretical but the same thing is happening now in Darfur and in North Korea. The camps of the Reich need to be maintained because fascism is as real now as it was then
Thats where I disagree completely.. I think these things serve as much to prop up the current perpetrators as much as persuade us to fight against them. Further, I think that plainly they are an eye-sore and a heartache, and personally I would rather see headstones and memorials, and I am sure that others agree with my sentiments, perhaps expressed less radically as I have on this thread.
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Old 12.23.2009, 11:32 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
Thats where I disagree completely.. I think these things serve as much to prop up the current perpetrators as much as persuade us to fight against them. Further, I think that plainly they are an eye-sore and a heartache, and personally I would rather see headstones and memorials, and I am sure that others agree with my sentiments, perhaps expressed less radically as I have on this thread.

Ive been to the mass graves at Normandy and its an incredibly meaningless experience, only when you look at what the Nazis were perpetrating themselves do you see why those landings were neccessary.
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Old 12.23.2009, 11:41 PM   #71
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On a very personal level, SuchFriends would rob me of the very substance of my spirituality. I've previous considered making a pilgrimage to German concentration camps.
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Old 12.24.2009, 07:05 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jon boy
having actually been to auschwitz and also having worked as a tour guide at sachsenhausen near berlin i can chategorically state that in no way are these places 'disneylandesque memorials'. they are kept as poinent reminders that the holocaust did very much happen and that no one should ever forget that. maybe you need to get over yourself before making anymore flippant comments regarding the deaths of millions of people.

Categorically?
Poignant?
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Old 12.24.2009, 07:08 AM   #73
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It was the British who invented the concentration camp. They used them during The Boer War.
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Old 12.24.2009, 07:12 AM   #74
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I was in Auschwitz. Although what someone said about this place being "Disneylandesque", it was still fucking terrifying.
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Old 12.24.2009, 07:17 AM   #75
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Old 12.24.2009, 07:35 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by pbradley
Okay, so you're just a fascist. My apologies.

Okay, so you're just a loony lefty. My apologies.
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Old 12.24.2009, 08:29 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
 

yeah, this looks real somber.. especially since they probably came literally on a tourist package.


listen, I appreciate your seriousness and depth in this thread, but you obviously misunderstand where I am coming from. This is not needless antagonism, as much as some folks here believe these camps to be significant memorials, I see them equally as an insult to those who survived. I am not sure if those armenians who are of my sister Church would really not prefer to come to gallows and shot up, blood stained walls as much as a proper memorial and cemetery.



 

(much more tasteful, reverent and respectful than the fucking barbed wire do you think?)

I think along the way people on this thread have misunderstood my intentions and motivations. I fucking DESPISE nazis.. it is one of the few paradoxes in my life, I love all people, I judge no one, but when it comes to nazis, I get primal. Fuck nazis.. Fuck Nazi-Sympathy!

I would prefer that instead of keeping maintained and alive the buildings and tools and fences which imprisoned and murdered MILLIONS of people who were both my religious and ethnic relatives, that we put up more tasteful memorials, proper cemeteries to honor the dead who have hallowed the ground, and for all eternity destroy every single last vestige of the nazis, until they only exist in our nightmares of our past, rather then as some rusted buildings in rural Poland, Germany, Ukraine and Czech Republic/Slovakia. Fuck nazis and their buildings, the people would much prefer a cemetery, thats why we didn't preserve EVERY camp, the vast majority were destroyed, plowed over and are currently cemeteries and memorials.. I did not make up this idea, it is what has already been done extensively..

What should people prefer, to come see the place that slaughtered they relatives still standing triumphantly, or see the headstones and memorials of the ancestors triumph on fresh, hallowed and higher ground?


well, if I saw Jews walking around with SS badges and swastikas maybe I could see that point. Further, the jews and eastern europeans were not sacrificed to a cause, they were murdered in cold blood. The martyrs die for what they believe in, nazis killed regardless of belief, simply for existing


SERIOUSLY, I AM SORRY TO THOSE WHO ARE OFFENDED BY THIS POST, but this is how I feel, and it truly comes from the best of intentions...

Don't worry yourself over it. Lefties commonly toss words like "fascist" and "homophobe" around like confetti as a lazy, asinine means to discredit others with opposite views. It's what they've been programmed to do. At the end of the day it's meaningless, puerile name-calling that belongs in a school playground. Which just highlights where their mentality belongs. It's comical stuff.
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Old 12.24.2009, 12:55 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the ikara cult
Ive been to the mass graves at Normandy and its an incredibly meaningless experience, only when you look at what the Nazis were perpetrating themselves do you see why those landings were neccessary.

from your perspective.. but cemeteries move many people to tears as respectfully and with comforting closure rather then startling memory.. If that was meaningless for you that sucks, but then you should understand where I am coming from then, as I would think that you not being moved in a cemetery is a bit insensitive, as much so as you probably think I am being insensitive about these camps.. Its all a matter of taste and perspective.

As a Christian, a cemetery is a special, sacred place, and personally, as a nazarite Dreadlock most of my life, I hadn't been in one for ten years until recently after I cut my hair.. They are somber enough with reverence, and honestly, I feel it is better to revere memorials and tombs than the gallows which fill them.

 

shocking yet tasteful
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Old 12.24.2009, 01:08 PM   #79
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Old 12.24.2009, 01:46 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchFriendsAreDangerous
from your perspective.. but cemeteries move many people to tears as respectfully and with comforting closure rather then startling memory.. If that was meaningless for you that sucks, but then you should understand where I am coming from then, as I would think that you not being moved in a cemetery is a bit insensitive, as much so as you probably think I am being insensitive about these camps.. Its all a matter of taste and perspective.

As a Christian, a cemetery is a special, sacred place, and personally, as a nazarite Dreadlock most of my life, I hadn't been in one for ten years until recently after I cut my hair.. They are somber enough with reverence, and honestly, I feel it is better to revere memorials and tombs than the gallows which fill them.



 

shocking yet tasteful

i really think that you shoud go to these places before you make comments about them. you have never been, never talked to any of the survivors of these places, never seen that the places are not some kind of tourist trap gawkind ceremony. thats all i am going to say on the subject because its like trying to argue with a stoned rasta.
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