[porkmarras]

Football violence isn't all that it's thought to be.I've rarely seen scenes of violence provoked by football in England.It does exist but it's not what people who live outside this country think it is.

[Tokolosh]

Originally Posted by Hip Priest

I think that football is merely another convenient focal point for yobs to create a throwback 'community' around their beliefs, with regular opportunities to meet up. The yobs are not just violent around football matches - they really are in town and city centres most nights. Somehow 'dealing' with football will not deal with the problem, because in the final analysis football will in no way the problem.

I don't recall ever seeing "yobs" at cricket matches?
I might be wrong though.

[sonicl]

Football violence in mainland Europe is much worse than in the UK. I went to Napoli v Inter a few years ago and it was much scarier than anything I've ever experienced in England.

[porkmarras]

Originally Posted by sonicl

We also abolished the ability of the police to do anything about thuggery. The police can't take any action, the courts just don't.

Well,they introduced this zero-tolerance policy in central London.The only thing is that you can hardly see any cops at all so the pissing against a wall goes on undisturbed.

[sonicl]

Originally Posted by Tokolosh

I don't recall ever seeing "yobs" at cricket matches?
I might be wrong though.

The pace of a cricket match isn't really one that encourages high feelings and rivalry. It's a much more "gentlemanly" game. But at the end of the day, football is an excuse for thuggery, not a cause.

[porkmarras]

Originally Posted by sonicl

Football violence in mainland Europe is much worse than in the UK. I went to Napoli v Inter a few years ago and it was much scarier than anything I've ever experienced in England.

Football violence in Italy is worse than in England,when it happens.

[Hip Priest]

Originally Posted by Tokolosh

I don't recall ever seeing "yobs" at cricket matches?
I might be wrong though.

About ten years ago there was a slight influx during the cricket season (I think Yorkshire suffered a bit). Football is one of many things that attract the yobs, but it's not the cause. Indifference and cultural degradation is the cause.

[jon boy]

Originally Posted by sonicl

We also abolished the ability of the police to do anything about thuggery. The police can't take any action, the courts just don't.

what about the arrest rates and the fact that we now jail more people that ever before?

[Tokolosh]

They say that the turks are the most fanatical. Feel free to visit a Fenerbahçe vs Galatasaray match, if you don't believe me.
You'll see fans walking around with bush knives and you'll hear gunshots ringing through the stadium.

[Hip Priest]

Originally Posted by jon boy

what about the arrest rates and the fact that we now jail more people that ever before?

But do we jail them for the right things? Are we jailing the right people? Are we managing to make them understand that they are wrong? By April 2005, Labour had created somthing like 350 new crimes. I have no idea how many it might be now.

[compulsive diarrhea, jico]

Originally Posted by Tokolosh

They say that the turks are the most fanatical. Feel free to visit a Fenerbahçe vs Galatasaray match, if you don't believe me.
You'll see fans walking around with bush knives and you'll hear gunshots ringing through the stadium.

that's true.

[Hip Priest]

Originally Posted by Tokolosh

They say that the turks are the most fanatical. Feel free to visit a Fenerbahçe vs Galatasaray match, if you don't believe me.
You'll see fans walking around with bush knives and hear gunshots ringing through the stadium.

There's a lot of tension when English clubs play Turkish clubs. A couple of Leeds fans were killed some years ago.

[porkmarras]

If one thing ever bugged me about this country is the public transport and its price and service.I went to get a one way ticket this morning and the price has increased by £1(!!!!!).That is fucking outrageous,considering the shitty service that you get.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Hip Priest

Exactly. We legitimised the yob's behaviour by not condemning it.

I think Mr L and Mr Priest and Mr 'Johnny foreigner' Marras are all correct, to an extent. I met a chap recently, only 16, who was getting excited about going to his first football ruckus. He wasn't a fan of the team concerned, and came from an entirely different area, but was going down with his uncle to join in with the fighting. I happen to know, in a casual, be-nice-to-them-because-they're-mental way a few thugs for the team concerned, and they are really not very nice people. I tried to warn said 16-yr-old chap about how I know some of them will start on thugs who seem to be fighting for 'their' team but are actually not from the area/ not 'real' fans. So I warned him of this. And the 16-yr-old started on me. Now, bear in mind that, anyone who's met me, I am not a terrible well-built or hardcore fighter, I managed to dismiss him quite quickly, with a combination of deflections and words. I was astonished that someone so feeble was actively excited about fighting with actual proper hard fuckers.

[compulsive diarrhea, jico]

gladly shit like that dont happen in my country.. . (insert sarcasm here)

[porkmarras]

Originally Posted by Glice

I think Mr L and Mr Priest and Mr 'Johnny foreigner' Marras are all correct, to an extent. I met a chap recently, only 16, who was getting excited about going to his first football ruckus. He wasn't a fan of the team concerned, and came from an entirely different area, but was going down with his uncle to join in with the fighting. I happen to know, in a casual, be-nice-to-them-because-they're-mental way a few thugs for the team concerned, and they are really not very nice people. I tried to warn said 16-yr-old chap about how I know some of them will start on thugs who seem to be fighting for 'their' team but are actually not from the area/ not 'real' fans. So I warned him of this. And the 16-yr-old started on me. Now, bear in mind that, anyone who's met me, I am not a terrible well-built or hardcore fighter, I managed to dismiss him quite quickly, with a combination of deflections and words. I was astonished that someone so feeble was actively excited about fighting with actual proper hard fuckers.

You have your Millwall fans(who are awful losers) and you have your Charlton fans(who are,mostly,friendly chaps).It's the spice of life,i suppose.

[jon boy]

i say we start a vigilante/militia group and sort these roughians out.

[Tokolosh]

Football might not be the direct cause, but it sure gives them a lame reason to go on the rampage.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by porkmarras

You have your Millwall fans(who are awful losers) and you have your Charlton fans(who are,mostly,friendly chaps).It's the spice of life,i suppose.

Have you ever met any of the Brighton heavies? Thoroughly nice chaps, the ones I've met. They do that wonderful thing of arranging fights in such a way as to guarentee that only those interested in fighting will be involved. We were very kindly escorted out of a pub in Brighton where a fight was kicking off. A few large chaps came up to us and very politely said, "There's going to be a fight here. If you want to stick around for it, you're more than welcome, but if not, finish your beers and have a nice day." I quite admire that. Fighting, yes, but only for those who want to fight.

[porkmarras]

I really don't see football as the cause of thuggery in Britain.I don't have a visible example in reality,therefore i know it is not true.English(not British,mind) football yobs are mainly a mild concern overseas.