"Brainwashing"

Magic Wheel Memory · 01.29.2009, 01:12 PM

Every situation is unique, but in general, it annoys me to hear people talk about the government, the media, advertisers or anyone else "brainwashing" people. It's as if people are incapable of thinking freely. What's worse is that the person saying it must think he's smarter than everyone else because he is able to recognize the brainwashing, while the rest of us fall prey to it.

People are responsible for their own thoughts! Some people might be brainwashed, but that's their choice.

Children, of course, are another story. They can be brainwashed.

afterthefact · 01.29.2009, 01:17 PM

It's funny you started this thread, because I was thinking about this today, although from a slightly different angle. I was thinking about how so many children grow up claiming that they were brainwashed to believe things that their parents believe (most common, of course, are religious beliefs).

I feel that brainwashing is a deliberate action. Most of these parents are simply teaching their children what they believe because they truly believe it. If the child grows up and, through their own experiences, begins to feel differently, they shouldn't claim to be brainwashed.

tesla69 · 01.29.2009, 05:17 PM

I don't believe most people have enough self awareness to realize they are being brainwashed, or if you prefer, manipulated. Most people see the brainwashing as a positive thing, and as I frequently see here, when pointed out they take a head in the sand approach. They don't want to know. Submission is safe. and often profitable.

afterthefact · 01.29.2009, 05:23 PM

Brainwashing and manipulation are two different things. With manipulation (and if you had to categorize parents teaching their children their beliefs, I think this would be where it better fits in, although I don't think that it should be looked at as neagtively as manipulation usually is), someone may not realize they are being manipulated, but it doesn't take much to make them realize this. With brainwashing, they are convinced that what they are doing is the right thing to do, as you more alluded to.

People are manipulated into thinking Cheerios taste better than store brand.

People are brainwashed into thinking that blowing themselves up in the middle of a mall will guarantee them a spot in heaven.

pbradley · 01.29.2009, 05:30 PM

Obviously if you don't see the world as I do, I'm not going to question my own assumptions. Instead, I'm just going to assume that someone is brainwashing you.

Brainwashed by your own ego.

Kloriel · 01.29.2009, 05:34 PM

pb: what happens next?

pbradley · 01.29.2009, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kloriel

pb: what happens next?

Find a more "truthful" big brother to obey?

Toilet & Bowels · 01.29.2009, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic Wheel Memory

People are responsible for their own thoughts!

if that was true advertising wouldn't be such a huge & lucrative industry, and people like derren brown wouldn't be such succesful entertainers.

Toilet & Bowels · 01.29.2009, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afterthefact

People are manipulated into thinking Cheerios taste better than store brand.

People are brainwashed into thinking that blowing themselves up in the middle of a mall will guarantee them a spot in heaven.

semantics. "brainwashing" is just a dramatic & fantastical way of saying manipulated.

Alex's Trip · 01.29.2009, 06:44 PM

If you could brainwash people into being genuinely happy and predisposed to a successful life, would there be anything morally wrong with doing such a thing?

Toilet & Bowels · 01.29.2009, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex's Trip

If you could brainwash people into being genuinely happy and predisposed to a successful life, would there be anything morally wrong with doing such a thing?

you can't "brainwash" someone to be successful, you could only "brainwash" to them into thinking they are successful... although having said that i'm not sure if i know what the difference is between thinking you're successful and being successful, success is such a subjective and variable notion.

Toilet & Bowels · 01.29.2009, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex's Trip

If you could brainwash people into being genuinely happy and predisposed to a successful life, would there be anything morally wrong with doing such a thing?

although a more cynical answer might be to say what do you think the purpose of the education system is?

Alex's Trip · 01.29.2009, 06:55 PM

By predisposed to being successful, I mean brainwashing people into being more ambitious, self-motivated, hard-working, honest.

In other words, is brainwashing always a negative thing? Is it inherently wrong, or can it be used for good things?

deflinus · 01.29.2009, 06:58 PM

if someone's 'brainwashed' and completely happy, who are you to judge whether their feelings are valid or not?

Toilet & Bowels · 01.29.2009, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex's Trip

By predisposed to being successful, I mean brainwashing people into being more ambitious, self-motivated, hard-working, honest.

well the only way to measure the success of the "brainwashing" would be to measure the success of the "brainwashed" person's life, so basically you are trying to "brainwash" them to be successful.

Toilet & Bowels · 01.29.2009, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex's Trip

In other words, is brainwashing always a negative thing? Is it inherently wrong, or can it be used for good things?

yes it can, but in those circumstances we don't call it "brainwashing" we call it "therapy", "counciling", "life coaching", etc.

Alex's Trip · 01.29.2009, 07:06 PM

I suppose I don't have any authority over the validity, which is partially why I am asking - I am interested in what others think.

But isn't it reasonable and understandable to not think they are valid simply because the feelings are artificial and didn't come about by natural means?

Toilet & Bowels · 01.29.2009, 07:09 PM

all feelings come about by natural means

01.29.2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tesla69

Submission is safe. and often profitable.

That's not necessarily true 'cause some submissive people don't even realise they are being 'brainwashed', they just need explaining what being 'brainwashed' means first, then how they are being submissive when it comes to 'brainwashing'.

Magic Wheel Memory · 01.29.2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

if that was true advertising wouldn't be such a huge & lucrative industry

If you are influenced by advertising, it's because you allow yourself to be, as many people do. That goes back my original point that "brainwashing" is generally voluntary.

Furthermore, there are many "legitimate" reasons why advertising can work. Some advertising is informative and sells a product on its actual merits.

01.29.2009, 01:12 PM	#1
Magic Wheel Memory the end of the ugly Join Date: May 2006 Location: Nowhere, NJ Posts: 836	Every situation is unique, but in general, it annoys me to hear people talk about the government, the media, advertisers or anyone else "brainwashing" people. It's as if people are incapable of thinking freely. What's worse is that the person saying it must think he's smarter than everyone else because he is able to recognize the brainwashing, while the rest of us fall prey to it. People are responsible for their own thoughts! Some people might be brainwashed, but that's their choice. Children, of course, are another story. They can be brainwashed. __________________ www.myspace.com/infinityad
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01.29.2009, 01:17 PM	#2
afterthefact invito al cielo Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 3,886	It's funny you started this thread, because I was thinking about this today, although from a slightly different angle. I was thinking about how so many children grow up claiming that they were brainwashed to believe things that their parents believe (most common, of course, are religious beliefs). I feel that brainwashing is a deliberate action. Most of these parents are simply teaching their children what they believe because they truly believe it. If the child grows up and, through their own experiences, begins to feel differently, they shouldn't claim to be brainwashed. __________________ "She hated people who thought too much. At that moment, she struck me as an appropriate representative for almost all mankind." - Kurt Vonnegut Cat's Cradle
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

01.29.2009, 05:17 PM	#3
tesla69 Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 4,055	I don't believe most people have enough self awareness to realize they are being brainwashed, or if you prefer, manipulated. Most people see the brainwashing as a positive thing, and as I frequently see here, when pointed out they take a head in the sand approach. They don't want to know. Submission is safe. and often profitable.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

01.29.2009, 05:23 PM	#4
afterthefact invito al cielo Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 3,886	Brainwashing and manipulation are two different things. With manipulation (and if you had to categorize parents teaching their children their beliefs, I think this would be where it better fits in, although I don't think that it should be looked at as neagtively as manipulation usually is), someone may not realize they are being manipulated, but it doesn't take much to make them realize this. With brainwashing, they are convinced that what they are doing is the right thing to do, as you more alluded to. People are manipulated into thinking Cheerios taste better than store brand. People are brainwashed into thinking that blowing themselves up in the middle of a mall will guarantee them a spot in heaven. __________________ "She hated people who thought too much. At that moment, she struck me as an appropriate representative for almost all mankind." - Kurt Vonnegut Cat's Cradle
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

01.29.2009, 05:30 PM	#5
pbradley invito al cielo Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: SoKo Posts: 10,621	Obviously if you don't see the world as I do, I'm not going to question my own assumptions. Instead, I'm just going to assume that someone is brainwashing you. Brainwashed by your own ego.
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01.29.2009, 05:34 PM	#6
Kloriel expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,554	pb: what happens next?
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01.29.2009, 06:44 PM	#10
Alex's Trip invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Southern California Posts: 5,608	If you could brainwash people into being genuinely happy and predisposed to a successful life, would there be anything morally wrong with doing such a thing? __________________ KALOPSIA
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01.29.2009, 06:55 PM	#13
Alex's Trip invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Southern California Posts: 5,608	By predisposed to being successful, I mean brainwashing people into being more ambitious, self-motivated, hard-working, honest. In other words, is brainwashing always a negative thing? Is it inherently wrong, or can it be used for good things? __________________ KALOPSIA
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01.29.2009, 06:58 PM	#14
deflinus expwy. to yr skull Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: in the darkest part of your mind Posts: 1,737	if someone's 'brainwashed' and completely happy, who are you to judge whether their feelings are valid or not?
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01.29.2009, 07:06 PM	#17
Alex's Trip invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Southern California Posts: 5,608	I suppose I don't have any authority over the validity, which is partially why I am asking - I am interested in what others think. But isn't it reasonable and understandable to not think they are valid simply because the feelings are artificial and didn't come about by natural means? __________________ KALOPSIA
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01.29.2009, 07:09 PM	#18
Toilet & Bowels invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern Europe Posts: 12,215	all feelings come about by natural means
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