[Norma J]

Who are you referring to?

[Glice]

DJ Rick's post.

[painted_word]

Hello everyone!

I feel that nowadays the term "indie" doens't define what it defined a decade ago. Since Sonic Youth, Dinosaur Jr. or Beat Happening were true leaders of a compromised scene taht was more similar in their attitude than in their sound, nowadays we call "indie" at any kind of pop-rock band with a hipster look and NME-Pitchfork coverage and that's a huge mistake IMO

IMO, nowadays we could find the truly indie attitude in bands like Lightning Bolt, Hella, Six Organs, Deerhoof and all those bands taht have a distinct sound and attitude, I would even include in taht list doom-drone bands like Earth, Sunn0))) or Boris. Those bands still take important risks and show compromise and they look like no faggots. The term indie is always changing and it reffers to a compromise

Btw: Arcade Fire are a good band and New Pornographers make nice pop-hooks...on the other hand I don't like Shins or BSS

cHEERS

[porkmarras]

Pass me the blade,please.

[PAULYBEE2656]

im amazed at the amount of folk that dislike the arcade fire. i thought most of us were "music fans" not "musoes". amazing band. live they are incendary. on record they are absorbing and i bet you anything that if they didnt sell 123 besquillion copies of funeral, everyone would be on their backs and riding them to the bandwagon of delight! i can understand the dislike for artic monkeys (they are only ok), razorlight, cyr hands and say meh, go team, all piddley poor i think.
fuck this indie rock thing. indie rock is just a term made up by nme journalists who were too old to understand how to explain to people what an early jesus and marychain gig was like. there is only one genre of music worth giving a shit about and thats "good music". be it whatever it is, good music will prevail regardless and let people who dont buy albums listen to razorlight or keane, mother fucking KEANE! i know im not that gullable when it comes to my record buying.............

intresting read this thread!

[GeneticKiss]

"What an early Jesus and Mary Chain gig was like"...

Well, there was usually a riot, becuz in those days audiences didn't take kindly to a bunch of guys with their backs turned to the audience playing simplistic pop songs way too loud to be audible...

I don't know, guys, maybe I'm just getting old (God forbid) or I'm too into the music of the guy whom I'm gonna play lead guitar for (if you like Elvis Costello, They Might Be Giants, or Eels, check him out: www.barakshpiez.com ), but I just don't see the point in bands trying to be as hostile to the audience as possible anymore....I understand that's how some people express themselves, but how are you going to gain any fans if you keep scaring everyone away?

[SpectralJulianIsNotDead]

Originally Posted by GeneticKiss

"What an early Jesus and Mary Chain gig was like"...

Well, there was usually a riot, becuz in those days audiences didn't take kindly to a bunch of guys with their backs turned to the audience playing simplistic pop songs way too loud to be audible...

I don't know, guys, maybe I'm just getting old (God forbid) or I'm too into the music of the guy whom I'm gonna play lead guitar for (if you like Elvis Costello, They Might Be Giants, or Eels, check him out: www.barakshpiez.com ), but I just don't see the point in bands trying to be as hostile to the audience as possible anymore....I understand that's how some people express themselves, but how are you going to gain any fans if you keep scaring everyone away?

I don't know if it is quite that. It is more that it seems to me that as digital recording has grown in popularity, there have been less good warm sounding albums and more shitty and overly produced incredibly boring sounding albums. Even if there is not a direct correlation, I think they are related to some extent.

With midi controlled racks, digital recorders, etc., it seems that music has become more about perfectionism than about rocking.

[DJ Rick]

Originally Posted by Glice

Kids don't know how to rebel any more? I think that's cack. Not because it's untrue of this generation, but because it implies there was a generation that did rebel. Kids still don't get on with their parents. Kids still resist their parents. In terms of a 'culture' of 'rebellion', kids will always believe that their generation is resisting the older generation, which they always do. The problem is that 'rebellion' is always part of being a stupid teenager, rather than a genuine thing. For all the first generation British punks I know, not a single one held true to its 'revolutionary' ethos. All the ex-hippies I know have short hair and 4x4's. The idea that any generation ever had anything other than a fake revolution is ridiculous to me.

No offence and all that, but I think it's such a risible sentiment, 'kids don't know how to rebel any more'.

I don't know who the powers that be are when it comes to naming of generations like the Baby Boomers, Generation X, and "Echo Boomers." Also, I suspect that these terms primarily apply in the United States. Moreover, the traits associated with each generation primarily describe the higher-achievers academically and in society...beginning and future careerists.

Naturally, there are all kindsa problems with stereotyping entire groups of people based on what years they were born, but sociopolitical factors that shape the trends of the many are indeed real. And surely they're different in the UK.

A trait of "Echo Boomers"--born since 1985--that these powers have emphasized is that young people try hard to please authority figures, by and large. That doesn't mean everyone. There are still individualists. Perhaps as many as there were in 1967 or 1977. But it's the pack that's more or less the same as the rest of the pack.

We're generally not talking about your typical Sonic Youth fan.

As I've stepped into the role of an authority figure for young people, I have noticed this to be true, pretty much.

The theory as to why this has happened is because American parents have tried to occupy their kids' lives with so much scheduled activity, and they have become more and more sheltered. School has always operated by a schedule, but now many kids are engaged in more and more extracurricular activities--even from infancy (witness the rise of the term "play-date")--which require added scheduling.

When I lecture these days, younger students take notes so well! But they hardly ever engage in class discussion...especially, they almost never ask a question. Meanwhile, my older students are less into note-taking and show more of a willingness to get involved in discussion, ask me for clarification, and actually impeach certain points I make. Sometimes, I hafta ask the young students to put their pens down and just listen to me present an idea, and then ponder that idea. The young students look uncomfortable doing that, and older students are right at home.

So it's not surprising that even though music is available in a self-serve fashion on the internet including easy-to-find portals into world's of deep obscurity and flavors for every particular taste, there is still a very successful mainstream for so-called rebellious youth which appeals to such a low common denominator. Comparing the tamest of today's "indie rock" to the best of independent rock music as we have done in this thread brings us to the consensus that it sucks.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by DJ Rick

I don't know who the powers that be are when it comes to naming of generations like the Baby Boomers, Generation X, and "Echo Boomers." Also, I suspect that these terms primarily apply in the United States. Moreover, the traits associated with each generation primarily describe the higher-achievers academically and in society...beginning and future careerists.

Naturally, there are all kindsa problems with stereotyping entire groups of people based on what years they were born, but sociopolitical factors that shape the trends of the many are indeed real. And surely they're different in the UK.

A trait of "Echo Boomers"--born since 1985--that these powers have emphasized is that young people try hard to please authority figures, by and large. That doesn't mean everyone. There are still individualists. Perhaps as many as there were in 1967 or 1977. But it's the pack that's more or less the same as the rest of the pack.

We're generally not talking about your typical Sonic Youth fan.

As I've stepped into the role of an authority figure for young people, I have noticed this to be true, pretty much.

The theory as to why this has happened is because American parents have tried to occupy their kids' lives with so much scheduled activity, and they have become more and more sheltered. School has always operated by a schedule, but now many kids are engaged in more and more extracurricular activities--even from infancy (witness the rise of the term "play-date")--which require added scheduling.

When I lecture these days, younger students take notes so well! But they hardly ever engage in class discussion...especially, they almost never ask a question. Meanwhile, my older students are less into note-taking and show more of a willingness to get involved in discussion, ask me for clarification, and actually impeach certain points I make. Sometimes, I hafta ask the young students to put their pens down and just listen to me present an idea, and then ponder that idea. The young students look uncomfortable doing that, and older students are right at home.

So it's not surprising that even though music is available in a self-serve fashion on the internet including easy-to-find portals into world's of deep obscurity and flavors for every particular taste, there is still a very successful mainstream for so-called rebellious youth which appeals to such a low common denominator. Comparing the tamest of today's "indie rock" to the best of independent rock music as we have done in this thread brings us to the consensus that it sucks.

Ok, there's definitely a discrepancy between the UK and America, but I'm not sure you're point about younger vs older students is that pertinent... I'll start off by saying thanks for not taking offense at my statement, a lot of people would've taken that as a sleight.

I suspect your younger students are more active in the more cerebral side of things by simple dint of being closer to school/ college. Presumably, your older students have been out in the 'real world' and have developed their intellectual faculties hand-to-mouth, as it were, whereas the younger students are still in the mode of writing things down. I don't think either side has any necessary advantage (obviously the best would be a moderation 'twain the two), but I don't think a more studious nature is any reflection of a culture per se.

Basically, I don't think 'rebellion' is any more of a selling point now than it was for Elvis, Hank Williams, Trad-jazz, Stravinsky or even Beethoven. Starting on an F#! Scandalous. There's also the furore in early music as people started to use Dm (the devil's chord). A side-note here: Interesting that early music considered Dm the Devil's chord/ key, and it is used predominantly now by 'Satanic' metallers.

And while young people in the last ten years may try and please authority figures more, I don't think this wasn't true of any other generation. To my mind, you get 'genuine' individualists and 'faux' individualists. Everyone likes to think they're and individual, it's very few people that actually are (and, for clarity, as a determinist, I don't include myself in the latter).

While I'm here, you teach musicology, right? Is that a course that's worth doing? It's on my list of potential MA's.

[Savage Clone]

I just call Dm "The Best Key."

[Glice]

Originally Posted by Savage Clone

I just call Dm "The Best Key."

I was a fan for a while, then I went through an Am phase. At the moment I'm really into, horror of all horrors, C major.

But then, how can you not love C Major?

[Savage Clone]

I take it you are courting a record deal with Windham Hill at the moment then?

[Glice]

Yes, and a Kenyan Soukous label.