Common misconceptions of transgender women - Page 4

Toilet & Bowels · 11.04.2019, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilduclo

too facile on the "wanting to learn" thing. It seems practiced and shop worn to me. I've got a real low tolerance for bullshit, since I am neither working nor running for office, I just don't have to respect other peoples fucked up opinions.

Re practiced and shop worn, if I had had this wretched conversation before what makes you think I'd want to relive it?

Toilet & Bowels · 11.04.2019, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

ok i don’t know what constitutes womanhood either or what the novelist wrote, but is it anything like this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janice...transsexualism

Nope, summary here:
https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/...mments-apology

!@#$%! · 11.04.2019, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

Nope, summary here:
https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/...mments-apology

well, briefly, it’s the same “privilege” rhetoric as the nun’s book, just refined, and if you in another comment claim to recognize the courage and difficulty of transitioning and the issues transpersons face, then you really have to ask—what fucking privilege is she talking about?

last i checked, trans life was reportedly very hard.

seems to me she doesn’t know what she’s talking about, not being trans herself, but her left-brain interpreter seems to be working overtime.

but if she just said “i don’t fucking know” she wouldn’t get paid to talk on tv.

btw here is germaine greer’s left-brain interpreter cooking up
a spectacular contradiction: https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...-restates-them

Toilet & Bowels · 11.04.2019, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

well, briefly, it’s the same “privilege” rhetoric as the nun’s book, just refined, and if you in another comment claim to recognize the courage and difficulty of transitioning and the issues transpersons face, then you really have to ask—what fucking privilege is she talking about?

last i checked, trans life was reportedly very hard.

seems to me she doesn’t know what she’s talking about, not being trans herself, but her left-brain interpreter seems to be working overtime.

but if she just said “i don’t fucking know” she wouldn’t get paid to talk on tv.

btw here is germaine greer’s left-brain interpreter cooking up
a spectacular contradiction: https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...-restates-them

I guess the privilege she is talking about is the privilege of being born male in a society that favors males, whether you want that or take advantage of that personally or not. She is not dismissing the oppression or hardship faced by transwomen, although it seems that some people think that saying here are two categories of people with broadly different experiences she is participating in opression.

Here's a quote from Adichie:

"I see how my saying that we should not conflate the gender experiences of trans women with that of women born female could appear as if I was suggesting that one experience is more important than the other. Or that the experiences of trans women are less valid than those of women born female. I do not think so at all — I know that trans women can be vulnerable in ways that women born female are not. This, again, is a reason to not deny the differences.

Why does this even matter?

Because at issue is gender.

Gender is a problem not because of how we look or how we identify or how we feel but because of how the world treats us.

Girls are socialized in ways that are harmful to their sense of self – to reduce themselves, to cater to the egos of men, to think of their bodies as repositories of shame. As adult women, many struggle to overcome, to unlearn, much of that social conditioning.

A trans woman is a person born male and a person who, before transitioning, was treated as male by the world. Which means that they experienced the privileges that the world accords men. This does not dismiss the pain of gender confusion or the difficult complexities of how they felt living in bodies not their own.

Because the truth about societal privilege is that it isn't about how you feel. (Anti-racist white people still benefit from race privilege in the United States). It is about how the world treats you, about the subtle and not so subtle things that you internalize and absorb."

Anyway, I guess she is evil because she said something that some people thought was not nice and the whole issue is apparently beyond discussing.

!@#$%! · 11.04.2019, 05:52 PM

there’s a lot to unpack so i’ll discuss in pieces

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

I guess the privilege she is talking about is the privilege of being born male in a society that favors males,

so trans women are “born” male? says who?

i mean, seems to me trans people are born trans or intersex already and are more or less arbitrarily assigned a gender...

...which is a fucked up way to get a start in life.

“born”: wholly stupid unscientific folk notion, and i keep banging the table about it.

Toilet & Bowels · 11.04.2019, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

so trans women are “born” male? says who?

Their body, the doctor, their birth certificate, the law and society.

Toilet & Bowels · 11.04.2019, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

i mean, seems to me trans people are born trans or intersex already and are more or less arbitrarily assigned a gender...

...which is a fucked up way to get a start in life.

No doubt

!@#$%! · 11.04.2019, 06:03 PM

now let’s say that, born trans, you’re assigned a definite gender

and then you promptly fail to meet the expectations of your assigned gender

i don’t know about your experiences, but i’ve seen what happens with people at the bottom of social hierarchies, and it’s fucked up.

so, yeah, i don’t know what “born” privilege trans people face.

the privilege of getting your ass kicked on a daily basis?

!@#$%! · 11.04.2019, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

Their body, the doctor, their birth certificate, the law and society.

their body? i dont know.

a newborn vs the power structure. good luck with those odds..

Toilet & Bowels · 11.04.2019, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !@#$%!

“born”: wholly stupid unscientific folk notion, and i keep banging the table about it

Maybe you are a bot (this makes a lot of sense) living in cosmic computer soup but I'm not prepared to discuss whether being born is an unscientific folk notion. Bang the table to your heart's content.

!@#$%! · 11.04.2019, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toilet & Bowels

Maybe you are a bot (this makes a lot of sense) living in cosmic computer soup but I'm not prepared to discuss whether being born is an unscientific folk notion. Bang the table to your heart's content.

being born has to do with being spat out of the womb using your lungs for the first time and being exposed to outside bacteria, and having to eat with the mouth, and taking shits, etc.

birth is not the whole of ontogeny. it’s only a moment in it.

get it right

Rob Instigator · 11.05.2019, 12:05 PM

trans women may be born 100% male, 50/50 male female, or 100% asexual(in terms of actual genitals) and anything in between.

Trans men may be born 100% female, 50/50 male female, 100% asexual (genital organs) and anything in between.

Medicine is the youngest science, and quite full of BULLSHIT that still needs to be worked out.

a 100% male baby in the womb can be altered by the mother's hormones and diet and develop feminine characteristics, and vice versa.

There is NO dichotomy in this. anyone who tells you people are either born female or born male is an uneducated ignoramus, looking to spout off on his/her supposedly superior knowledge and wisdom.

ilduclo · 11.05.2019, 03:45 PM

TRUMP JR.: I think we're actually all pretty let -- live and let live. So is my father. But today, you know, it's sort of the "woke" goalposts. They keep moving. The example I use in the book is obviously as it relates to, you know, trans women in sports. Identify how you want. I think it's wonderful. I don't care. When you start saying, "Okay, I'm a man. I've become a woman. I'm now winning national championships, setting weightlifting world records," you know, displacing women who've worked their entire lives to get to a point in their careers, I think that's wrong. And that's the point. The goalposts never stop moving.
Dunno what that's all about, but we are guessing a transgender person beat Junior at hoops and he has never recovered.

d.sound · 11.23.2019, 01:57 PM

What the heck happened to this thread since I was last here? I'm kind of glad I missed it. It's interesting to see non transgender people getting defensive and offensive about the gender spectrum. Like I've said, I don't think it's possible to understand what it feels like unless you have experienced it.

Here's the bottomline about the health of trans persons:

Trans folk are more likely to commit suicide than war vets.

Hormone therapy and transition reduces the risk significantly. Unhappy people become less unhappy.

That's it.

Fuck everything else. Save lives.

floatingslowly · 11.27.2019, 06:10 AM

I respect that no woman wants a man dictating what feminism means to them, but anyone who makes it their stance to be disinclusive in name, deserves shame.

trans people are people. TERFs can suck a fuck, you Nazi pricks.

d.sound · 12.02.2019, 08:35 PM

an example of my encounters with chasers on dating sites:

intro pick up line: "can i come over now"
WHOA RED FLAG SERIAL KILLER.
no profile, no picture
WHOA RED FLAG FUCKING MORONIC SERIAL KILLER

me: let's start with 'hello'
them: hey
me: that's a slight improvement. what gender are you?
them: male
me: cis or trans
them: no
me: you have to be one or the other. were you born a man? or are you saying you are intersex?
them: i just want to fuck
me: do you not know what cisgender means? if you want to fuck a trans woman, maybe at least read a faq or the first paragraph on wikipedia

basically from there on out it becomes clear they have been hearing this from other people and learned nothing. then they start telling me i'm not a woman or a person and i'm delusional etc

i actually tried to offer helpful advice. how if you want to fuck a trans woman, you have to be respectful, and you have to realize they do not have sex the way you do. these men's exposure to trans women is pornhub. they know nothing else. at least be aware of the huge difference between trans porn aimed at heterosexual cis men versus trans porn aimed at cis and trans lesbians. it's just like other porn aimed at women, it's about the mind and emotions. way more talking than sex. (honestly i often just use the intro story in porn to get my mind going, then i go in my bedroom and fantasize about my gf.)

...and this man wants to fuck a trans woman, any trans woman, and assumes they are basically slaves

HINT: IF MY PROFILE SAYS I'M A LESBIAN AND I DON'T RESPOND TO MALES, YOU ARE NOT A MAGIC EXCEPTION. why do cis men make lesbian profiles in the first place? i have not spent 37 years wrestling with LGBTQ issues without realizing i'm into men. i am not going to suddenly go "i've never been attracted to men, but this gross, sexist, fat, idiot 15 years my senior is somehow hot and i want him to fuck me in the ass."

really? why are men so stupid? by which i mean these kind of men, not you fine gentlemen.

it makes me want to delete every dating profile i have except for okcupid.

/RANT

!@#$%! · 12.02.2019, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d.sound

? if you want to fuck a trans woman, maybe at least read a faq or the first paragraph on wikipedia

don’t enable sociopaths by giving them advice

d.sound · 12.02.2019, 09:05 PM

good advice

Bytor Peltor · 12.13.2019, 03:09 AM

S/he Speaks

!@#$%! · 12.13.2019, 09:17 AM

the fucking moron...

11.04.2019, 06:03 PM	#68
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,457	now let’s say that, born trans, you’re assigned a definite gender and then you promptly fail to meet the expectations of your assigned gender i don’t know about your experiences, but i’ve seen what happens with people at the bottom of social hierarchies, and it’s fucked up. so, yeah, i don’t know what “born” privilege trans people face. the privilege of getting your ass kicked on a daily basis?
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.05.2019, 12:05 PM	#72
Rob Instigator invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: In the land of the Instigator Posts: 27,930	trans women may be born 100% male, 50/50 male female, or 100% asexual(in terms of actual genitals) and anything in between. Trans men may be born 100% female, 50/50 male female, 100% asexual (genital organs) and anything in between. Medicine is the youngest science, and quite full of BULLSHIT that still needs to be worked out. a 100% male baby in the womb can be altered by the mother's hormones and diet and develop feminine characteristics, and vice versa. There is NO dichotomy in this. anyone who tells you people are either born female or born male is an uneducated ignoramus, looking to spout off on his/her supposedly superior knowledge and wisdom. __________________ RXTT's Intellectual Journey - my new blog where I talk about all the books I read.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.05.2019, 03:45 PM	#73
ilduclo invito al cielo Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,305	TRUMP JR.: I think we're actually all pretty let -- live and let live. So is my father. But today, you know, it's sort of the "woke" goalposts. They keep moving. The example I use in the book is obviously as it relates to, you know, trans women in sports. Identify how you want. I think it's wonderful. I don't care. When you start saying, "Okay, I'm a man. I've become a woman. I'm now winning national championships, setting weightlifting world records," you know, displacing women who've worked their entire lives to get to a point in their careers, I think that's wrong. And that's the point. The goalposts never stop moving. Dunno what that's all about, but we are guessing a transgender person beat Junior at hoops and he has never recovered.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.23.2019, 01:57 PM	#74
d.sound the destroyed room Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 553	What the heck happened to this thread since I was last here? I'm kind of glad I missed it. It's interesting to see non transgender people getting defensive and offensive about the gender spectrum. Like I've said, I don't think it's possible to understand what it feels like unless you have experienced it. Here's the bottomline about the health of trans persons: Trans folk are more likely to commit suicide than war vets. Hormone therapy and transition reduces the risk significantly. Unhappy people become less unhappy. That's it. Fuck everything else. Save lives. __________________ http://chaotropics.bandcamp.com http://seatone.bandcamp.com
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

11.27.2019, 06:10 AM	#75
floatingslowly invito al cielo Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 21,165	I respect that no woman wants a man dictating what feminism means to them, but anyone who makes it their stance to be disinclusive in name, deserves shame. trans people are people. TERFs can suck a fuck, you Nazi pricks.
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

12.02.2019, 08:35 PM	#76
d.sound the destroyed room Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 553	an example of my encounters with chasers on dating sites: intro pick up line: "can i come over now" WHOA RED FLAG SERIAL KILLER. no profile, no picture WHOA RED FLAG FUCKING MORONIC SERIAL KILLER me: let's start with 'hello' them: hey me: that's a slight improvement. what gender are you? them: male me: cis or trans them: no me: you have to be one or the other. were you born a man? or are you saying you are intersex? them: i just want to fuck me: do you not know what cisgender means? if you want to fuck a trans woman, maybe at least read a faq or the first paragraph on wikipedia basically from there on out it becomes clear they have been hearing this from other people and learned nothing. then they start telling me i'm not a woman or a person and i'm delusional etc i actually tried to offer helpful advice. how if you want to fuck a trans woman, you have to be respectful, and you have to realize they do not have sex the way you do. these men's exposure to trans women is pornhub. they know nothing else. at least be aware of the huge difference between trans porn aimed at heterosexual cis men versus trans porn aimed at cis and trans lesbians. it's just like other porn aimed at women, it's about the mind and emotions. way more talking than sex. (honestly i often just use the intro story in porn to get my mind going, then i go in my bedroom and fantasize about my gf.) ...and this man wants to fuck a trans woman, any trans woman, and assumes they are basically slaves HINT: IF MY PROFILE SAYS I'M A LESBIAN AND I DON'T RESPOND TO MALES, YOU ARE NOT A MAGIC EXCEPTION. why do cis men make lesbian profiles in the first place? i have not spent 37 years wrestling with LGBTQ issues without realizing i'm into men. i am not going to suddenly go "i've never been attracted to men, but this gross, sexist, fat, idiot 15 years my senior is somehow hot and i want him to fuck me in the ass." really? why are men so stupid? by which i mean these kind of men, not you fine gentlemen. it makes me want to delete every dating profile i have except for okcupid. /RANT __________________ http://chaotropics.bandcamp.com http://seatone.bandcamp.com
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

12.02.2019, 09:05 PM	#78
d.sound the destroyed room Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 553	good advice __________________ http://chaotropics.bandcamp.com http://seatone.bandcamp.com
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|

12.13.2019, 03:09 AM	#79
Bytor Peltor Banned Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Arlen, Texas Posts: 3,784	S/he Speaks
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12.13.2019, 09:17 AM	#80
!@#$%! invito al cielo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mars attacks Posts: 42,457	the fucking moron...
	\|QUOTE AND REPLY\|