[ni'k]

i wish there really was a government conspiracy to kill people with health care, and it was kinda like santa claus, in that you have to believe in it for it to happen, so all these fucking teabaggers and town hall tards would get killed by liberal death panels.

[ni'k]

But seriously, what's worrying about this is that it's largely being orchestrated by the PR industry, it seems they have the power to bring things to a dangerous point of violent tension, based on complete LIES they are putting out to protect their financial interests.

Not that I have any sympathy for Obama, who is nothing but a celebrity spokesman for big business interests. He's being spineless on this issue, but at least it's being addressed.

[TheFoxBen]

 

[ni'k]

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ess=385x358010

watch this.

Rachel Maddow has been fantastic on this. Looking forward to her book coming out in a few months. I'm curious about Rachel's specific beliefs, how far to the left she goes. Always great to see such an articulate and intelligent gay person in such a mainstream position.


also jon stewart GETS THE IDIOT WHO CAME UP WITH THE DEATH PANEL RUMOR FIRED
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/th...ccaughey-pt--1


Betsy McCaughey — an outspoken proponent of the myth that Democrats’ health care reform proposals will lead to the creation of “death panels,” as well as a former lieutenant governor of New York and adjunct fellow at the Hudson Institute — has stepped down from her position as a director of Cantel Medical Corp., which bills itself as a “leading provider of infection prevention and control products in the healthcare market.”
From a press release:

CANTEL MEDICAL CORP. (NYSE: CMN – News) announced that on August 20, 2009 it received a letter of resignation from Ms. Elizabeth McCaughey as a director of the Company. Ms. McCaughey, who had served as a director since 2005, stated that she was resigning to avoid any appearance of a conflict of interest during the national debate over healthcare reform.

McCaughey found herself the subject of widespread ridicule after an appearance on “The Daily Show” Thursday, during which host Jon Stewart aggressively challenged her positions on health care reform.

[notyourfiend]

Originally Posted by ni'k

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ess=385x358010

watch this.

Rachel Maddow has been fantastic on this. Looking forward to her book coming out in a few months. I'm curious about Rachel's specific beliefs, how far to the left she goes. Always great to see such an articulate and intelligent gay person in such a mainstream position.

Rachel Maddow is fucking brilliant. I love how somebody from her background (her phd thesis was on queer activist groups) was able to break into the mainstream. It's one of only things about our media which I don't find to be humiliating.

[girlgun]

Stfu. No really. Everyone has got an opinion on health care yet so few understand it.

[ni'k]

So i should shut the fuck up because everyone has an opinion?


We here in Britain have what you call "socialised" medicine. This means when someone gets sick, they can go and see a doctor. They don't have to pay. If you are ill and need medication or treatment, you get it free.

The taxpayer/government pays for it. It's not perfect but it is at least humane in many respects.

[notyourfiend]

Originally Posted by ni'k

So i should shut the fuck up because everyone has an opinion?


We here in Britain have what you call "socialised" medicine. This means when someone gets sick, they can go and see a doctor. They don't have to pay. If you are ill and need medication or treatment, you get it free.

The taxpayer/government pays for it. It's not perfect but it is at least humane in many respects.

I really think that it's a necessity to have some sort of national health care. Privatized health care not only keeps people sick, but plays a huge role in perpetuating systems of poverty and class inequality, sexism, the rule of big corporations etc. etc. etc...I understand the role of competition in creating very innovative and advanced medical techniques, but I also don't think that is an excuse to just not have affordable treatment options for so many in this population.

[ni'k]

Originally Posted by notyourfiend

I'm sorry, I know that this might sound closed minded and whatnot, but I seriously cannot think of people as being humane if they don't support at least some sort of national health care. Privatized health care not only keeps people sick, but plays a huge role in perpetuating systems of poverty and class inequality, sexism, the rule of big corporations etc. etc. etc...I understand the role of competition in creating very innovative and advanced medical techniques, but I also don't think that is an excuse to just not have affordable treatment options for so many in this population.


And I'm saying this from the perspective of somebody who's fam makes a living off pure capitalist health care bullshit.

People over profit.

Yeah, read my post, thats what i said. That our system of national health care in Britain is humane.

[girlgun]

I think everyone deserves health care. ( for the record, No ER can turn anyone away.) What I'm saying is that these politicians are doing it wrong. If notyourfiend grew up like that, he prob has a better idea how to fix it than the politicians do.

As far as you nik... Your antiamericanism gets old. There was prob a better way to present your material than lumping everyone in together again.

[girlgun]

I pay for my health insurance. I honestly don't want to pay for yours too.

[notyourfiend]

Originally Posted by ni'k

Yeah, read my post, thats what i said. That our system of national health care in Britain is humane.

Yeah.

I was talking about all the Americans who disagree with national health care.

I'm too tired and too inarticulate this morning.

[notyourfiend]

Originally Posted by girlgun

I think everyone deserves health care. ( for the record, No ER can turn anyone away.) What I'm saying is that these politicians are doing it wrong. If notyourfiend grew up like that, he prob has a better idea how to fix it than the politicians do.

I was fortunate to grow up with health care, especially since I have a number of pretty severe health problems.

But a number of the people around me are not so lucky. In the city I live today (Baltimore) 90% of the work that is available is in the service sector, and few are offered health care plans. I just graduated college, and most of my friends who are my age and educated simply can't get jobs with adequate insurance. Either the premiums are too high and, if they were to pay for health care they couldn't afford food or rent, or it's health insurance is offered as a possibility. Most of my friends who were able to get jobs are doing temp work where health care and benefits are rarely considered.

In order to maintain health care I'm doing AmeriCorps VISTA (essentially the domestic peace corps) In exchange for having emergency room coverage and being able to see a couple of doctors around the city, I am being given a small stipend and living under the poverty line.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by girlgun

Stfu. No really. Everyone has got an opinion on health care yet so few understand it.

you don't understand! here in Britain we have two main pass times: distrusting the french and criticising America's healthcare policy. You can't expect us to base these things on knowing anything about either of them. The French are a bunch of horse eating backstabbers, the Americans don't have a just healthcare system. That'll do for us.

[ni'k]

Originally Posted by girlgun

I think everyone deserves health care. ( for the record, No ER can turn anyone away.) What I'm saying is that these politicians are doing it wrong. If notyourfiend grew up like that, he prob has a better idea how to fix it than the politicians do.

As far as you nik... Your antiamericanism gets old. There was prob a better way to present your material than lumping everyone in together again.

My anti-americanism isn't some novelty there to entertain you, it's a committed position. Anyone that rallies around any position of nationalism is an wrong as far as I'm concerned. Americanism, just like every other national identity based on division and exclusion, is an incestuous/stupid/dangerous worldview.

[notyourfiend]

Originally Posted by ni'k

My anti-americanism isn't some novelty there to entertain you, it's a committed position. Anyone that rallies around any position of nationalism is an wrong as far as I'm concerned. Americanism, just like every other national identity based on division and exclusion, is an incestuous/stupid/dangerous worldview.

"Dissent is patriotic" and I completely hear yah nik.

I personally think that blind patriotism is almost always a dangerous thing.

[girlgun]

Haha. Thanks. I understand now. Here in oklahoma (as you know, America has one name, but really isn't at all the same from place to place) we mostly just start bitching about football this time of year.

[girlgun]

Gawd. I'm done. I've got no patriotism at all. I'm just saying okies aren't like new yorkers who aren't like californians.

Whatevs.

[notyourfiend]

Originally Posted by girlgun

Haha. Thanks. I understand now. Here in oklahoma (as you know, America has one name, but really isn't at all the same from place to place) we mostly just start bitching about football this time of year.

the health care debate up here is exploding because people simply can't afford to live. even though baltimore is a shitty place, i see a lot of potential for something to erupt out of it. because people here are desperate and hopkins, with it's wonderful medical team and world renowned hopstial, continues to completely fuck the city residents over.

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by girlgun

Haha. Thanks. I understand now. Here in oklahoma (as you know, America has one name, but really isn't at all the same from place to place) we mostly just start bitching about football this time of year.

oh, and we also like to make a big fuss about how your 'gridiron' is far too complicated to follow.

it's nothing personal. We're a small land that's had our global significance ripped from under us by a place that endorses monster truck racing. it hurts.