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Old 05.25.2019, 06:03 PM   #501
demonrail666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h8kurdt
Didn't the Guardian just announce that they're now making a profit and it's down to the online subscription they offer? Gotta hand it to them for changing their way of making money when newspapers are collapsing left, right and centre. Doesn't help that their print papers cost 1.50 or whatever it is now.

I'd actually read the times if it wasn't behind a pay wall. Hell'll freeze over the day I give Murdoch any of my money.


I'll buy the Times sometimes if I'm out and need something to read partly cos I know it has stuff I can't just go home and read online but I do also think overall it's the best. It clearly has a position but it doesn't seem to editorialise as much as the others seem to. The Times is 1.80, which is ridiculous, but at least It's exclusive content. 1.50 for The Guardian when everything's already online, and has comments, etc. Why would anyone buy it?
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Old 05.25.2019, 10:04 PM   #502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
Why would anyone buy it?
because they need their news in paper form? for waiting rooms, coffee shops, technophobes, libraries, etc. (libraries still hang newspapers in those wood racks).

pulp costs money. more than file servers anywyay.
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Old 05.26.2019, 02:23 AM   #503
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Out of curiosity I looked at the prices for digital-only subscriptions to The Times and the Telegraph. Once you've exhausted the trial discount periods they both want 26 a month. That's crazy money for an online-only subscription.

But back to the GoT(ory) leadership battle.Looks like shit's about to get interesting. Mogg has come out in support of Boris (no real surprise there) but it looks like Michael Gove intends to throw his usual spanner in Boris's wheel when it's predicted that he'll announce he's running, too.

 
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Old 05.26.2019, 02:59 AM   #504
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Fucking hell! Be interested to see how many people do have a steady subscription to that. The Guardian charge a fiver a month which in comparison I should be happy to pay.
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Down with this sort of thing.
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Old 05.26.2019, 03:45 AM   #505
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Yeah, crazy money. Sometimes I'll see people on the train to work reading the Times or Telegraph on their laptops. Clearly some people are getting paid too much.

If the Times was a tenner I might be tempted but Rupert can fuck right off with his 26 quid bollocks.
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Old 05.26.2019, 06:42 AM   #506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
Out of curiosity I looked at the prices for digital-only subscriptions to The Times and the Telegraph. Once you've exhausted the trial discount periods they both want 26 a month. That's crazy money for an online-only subscription.
oh that’s probably not how it works

first you do the trial subscription

when it’s about to expire you call to cancel (they make you call, sometimes just chat)

that’s when you say “meh” and they offer you a deep discount

i pay $4/mo for the nyt down from the standard $16. i don’t really read it a lot. i told them i pay $4 for washington post and they matched it. it’s more a reference than an actual newspaper. lots of stupid shit. [but paul krugman is great]

barron’s (weekly) plus marketwatch (24h ongoing) $11mo, half their nominal $20+ price tag

wsj they say it’s $40, but it’s really $20 (im not getting it right now)

the economist works different, i didn’t get a chance to bargain? it’s $45 per quarter ($15/mo)

the ft supposedly sells for like $600/yr but i got an offer for $250 which comes to 20-ish a month (did not take it at the time as i was trying to sort things)

etc.
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Old 05.26.2019, 06:50 AM   #507
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Boris Johnson. Another clown. Just great.
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Old 05.26.2019, 07:12 AM   #508
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Originally Posted by grimesbf
Boris Johnson. Another clown. Just great.
so, more like this then?

 
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Old 05.26.2019, 10:57 AM   #509
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still waiting for european elections results, just read this re: antagon’s news from the other day.

sorry about the bad copypaste but the paragraphs did not transport. [i’ll try a rough re-break]. this is from the “charlemagne” column on the economist



THE HUGS DON’T WORK
Cosying up to populists rarely ends well for political moderates

On a freezing morning in Vienna in December 2017, Charlemagne heard a tempting case for what might be called “the hug strategy”. He was drinking coffee with an ally of Sebastian Kurz, the young leader of the centre-right Austrian People’s Party who was hours from a coalition deal with the hard-right Austrian Freedom Party (fp). “He has grown up,” said the Kurz-ite of Heinz-Christian Strache, the fp’s leader, adding that, in any case, Mr Kurz would be able to manage his new ally. Having already edged towards some fp positions and won back some of its supporters, the incoming chancellor would render his coalition partner irrelevant in government and thus contain the hard-right while governing pragmatically. It all sounded very clever.


It proved otherwise. Mr Kurz’s big hug failed to stifle Mr Strache. At recent rallies in the South Tyrol and Linz your columnist watched the vulpine vice-chancellor charge in to the boisterous oomph of Johann Strauss’s Radetzky March before unveiling his latest designs: Austrian passports for German-speakers in northern Italy, mosque closures, an end to the “population replacement” of white Europeans by immigrants. Support for the fp remained high and stable at around 25%. Its ministers undermined the independence of Austria’s state broadcaster and attacked the rights of asylum-seekers. Karin Kneissl, the fp-backed foreign minister, danced with Vladimir Putin at her wedding. Some containment this was turning out to be.


On May 17th it all came crashing down. Two German newspapers published a video secretly filmed in a villa on the Spanish island of Ibiza in the summer of 2017. In it, a woman posing as the niece of a Russian oligarch suggested to Mr Strache that her uncle take over the Kronen Zeitung, Austria’s largest newspaper, and use it to pump out pro-fp messages in return for government contracts. The fp leader responded enthusiastically and expressed admiration for how Viktor Orban, Hungary’s authoritarian prime minister, had crushed the independent press in his country. The scandal—dubbed “Ibizagate”—prompted a tearful Mr Strache to announce his resignation and a chastened Mr Kurz to dissolve the alliance. “Enough is enough,” the chancellor said. Yet he had hardly been ignorant of the risks of the coalition from the start. He merely thought he could manage them.


The sorry tale is part of a bigger saga. All over Europe populist nationalists like Mr Strache are challenging moderate politicians, many of whom are adopting a version of the hug strategy by emulating some of the populists’ language and policies, or bringing them into government, or both as in Austria. In Bavaria’s state election campaign last autumn the conservative Christian Social Union tilted right on migration and picked fights with Angela Merkel’s moderate Christian Democrat Union. Ahead of Sweden’s election in September the previously liberal-conservative Moderates lambasted multiculturalism and did deals with the hard-right Sweden Democrats in local government. Spain’s centre-right People’s Party formed a regional government with the nationalist Vox party in January and aped its hardline positions on Catalan autonomy. In subsequent elections the three mainstream parties fell to their lowest results since 1950, 2002 and 1979 respectively.


Elsewhere the cost has, as in Mr Kurz’s case, been less electoral than reputational and ideological. Britain’s Conservatives vanquished the anti-eu United Kingdom Independence Party by appropriating its main policy (Brexit) but are now tearing themselves apart. In Denmark the centre-right Venstre’s rightward shift (allowing police to confiscate jewellery and other valuables from arriving asylum-seekers, for example) and informal collaboration with the hard-right Danish People’s Party has pushed the country’s entire political contest in that direction. Manfred Weber, the centre-right candidate to be president of the European Commission, has long hugged Mr Orban in the hope of moderating him. This has emboldened the Hungarian leader, toxified Mr Weber and may impede him from marshalling the broad mainstream coalition that he needs in the European Parliament after this week’s elections—unless, that is, he relies on votes from the hard-right.

A Faustian embrace

Political scientists who have studied such things could have warned of the dangers. Pontus Odmalm and Eve Hepburn, for example, have used the examples of British, French, Finnish, Danish and Dutch politics from 2002 to 2015 to chart the effects of mainstream parties moving towards populist positions on immigration. Having expected that these shifts would dent support for the populist parties, they found no such effect. Mainstream parties moving right, they hypothesise, may legitimise extreme parties and push them into yet more extreme positions—creating a bidding war that mainstreamers cannot win. This difference applies even if the outsiders are brought into government. Studying the effects of hard-right parties on qualitative measures of transparency, individual liberties, rule of law and minority rights in 30 European countries from 1990 to 2012, Robert Huber and Christian Schimpf showed that the presence of anti-system populists in opposition can be good for democracy, because they act like “drunken guests” at a dinner party and blurt out awkward truths. But they also found that there is “a substantial negative effect on democratic quality” when they enter government. Ibizagate should have come as no surprise to Mr Kurz.


But if this is not enough, Europe’s moderates may be about to get another big dose of evidence. The European Parliament elections will probably see the centre-right bloc, many of whose member parties have pursued some version of the hug strategy, lose more seats than any other group. The right-wingers, some of them emboldened by roles in coalitions at national and regional levels, are expected be among the main winners. If so, it will be yet more proof that the hugs don’t work.
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Old 05.26.2019, 12:44 PM   #510
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finally found the bloomberg live blog for european elections

getting frequent updates right now

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/live-...tary-elections


CATCHUP: If you're just joining us, here's what we know from the first wave of exit polls:

A cautious, early takeaway is that populist parties failed to make the splash they were hoping for, while support for environmental movements like Germany's Greens surged, particularly among younger voters

In Germany, Chancellor Angela Merkel's CDU/CSU bloc won the EU ballot with about 28% of the vote, but that was down from 35% in 2014

Merkel's national coalition partners, the Social Democrats, crashed to 15.5% from 27%, and also came second to the CDU in a regional ballot in Bremen, a traditional stronghold
The Greens were the second-strongest party in Germany with 22% of the EU vote, while the far-right AfD did slightly worse than expected with 10.5%

In Austria, in the wake of the video scandal that felled the government, Prime Minister Sebastian Kurz is on track to win but nonetheless looks set to lose a confidence vote on Monday

Greek exit polls show Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras is set to lose, possibly prompting a snap national election as soon as June

Viktor Orban's Fidesz party has a commanding 56% of the vote in Hungary, hardly a surprise given the prime minister's near-total control of national media



live results being posted here:
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...ent-elections/
(maps & charts starting to fill up)

===

hoooleeeee sheeeeeeettt front national polling ahead of macron’s party

that’s some ugly news
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Old 05.26.2019, 05:55 PM   #511
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Armeggeddon for the Cons and Lab
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Old 05.26.2019, 06:03 PM   #512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
Armeggeddon for the Cons and Lab
i dont see any numbers yet, can you point me to some?
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Old 05.26.2019, 06:11 PM   #513
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So far:

Brexit: 21 MEPs. 4.8m votes
Lib Dems: 10 MEPs. 3.1m votes
Lab: 7 MEPs. 2.1 votes
Green: 5 MEPs. 1.8m votes
Con: 2 MEPs. 1.4m votes
... some odds and sods under those

still some results to come in but safe to say Con and Lab are a wipe out.
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Old 05.26.2019, 06:17 PM   #514
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holy fuck the tories got CLOBBERED

i was adding up remain and leave numbers and dont know how to split labor



eta: sorry, laboUr



ps: the pound is holding steady after opening slightly higher than it closed last week

weird... i was expecting it to sink into hell. maybe that’s been already priced in. it’s nowhere near bottom however.



also usa holiday and... britain bank holiday looks like? but still...
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Old 05.26.2019, 06:43 PM   #515
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Yeah, hard to work out the Lab vote. It shifts dramatically depending on region.
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Old 05.26.2019, 07:41 PM   #516
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ok this is what im getting from those bloomberg charts now ( raw copypasta: party, %, seats)

National party
Vote
Seats
Brexit Party
31.7%
29
Liberal Democrats
18.6%
16
Labour Party
14.1%
10
Green Party
11.1%
7
Conservative Party
8.7%
4
United Kingdom Independence Party
3.6%
0
Scottish National Party
3.4%
3
Change UK
2.8%
0
Plaid Cymru—Party of Wales
1.7%
1
Sinn Fein
0.7%
1
Democratic Unionist Party
0.6%
1
Social Democratic and Labour Party
0.3%
1
Ulster Unionist Party
0.3%
0
Alliance Party
0.3%
0
Traditional Unionist Voice
0.3%
0
Other parties from the Great Britain electoral college
1.8%
0
Other parties from the Northern Ireland electoral college
0.2%
0
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Old 05.26.2019, 08:10 PM   #517
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came here to post the gbp index: how the pound measures vs a basket of currencies.

https://www.ifcmarkets.com/en/market...ices/gbp-index

been going up slightly in the face of all lololo

also most significative for brexit the EUR/GBP charts

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/EURGBP=X
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Old 05.27.2019, 03:30 AM   #518
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The Cons certainly took the biggest beating last night but more long term I think Labour faces a real crisis of identity. It's at least conceivable (although by no means straightforward) that the new Con leader makes a pact with Farage and gets behind no-deal - at least as an option. They do that it'll be an end to the Cameron/May era but will leave the party's core pro-small government/nation first identity largely intact. But if Labour gets behind a 2nd referendum (which in terms of survival it surely must) it'll mean they lose their traditional voter base and essentially become the Lib Dems (or back to New Labour - the same thing).

--

I don't agree with large chunks of this but it's an interesting assessment from a Corbyn-sympathetic/pro-Remain perspective.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-corbyn-labour
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Old 05.27.2019, 09:14 AM   #519
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the british pound seems to be catching up with reality and heading steadily down these last few hours (but trading volume is low)

lml @ that article,,,
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Old 05.27.2019, 10:04 AM   #520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonrail666
I don't agree with large chunks of this but it's an interesting assessment from a Corbyn-sympathetic/pro-Remain perspective.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-corbyn-labour

thnaks for that link, interesting read.

there are a lot of domestic details and names it would take me too long to catch up with, but i actually agree with the main conclusion of that piece i think.

(and yes, i agree to disagree with you by default: i’m neither a preacher nor a high-pressure salesman. i enjoy interesting disagreements because they are illuminating.)

i think it’s correct to assess as in that article that no soft brexit is possible any longer: you’re either staying or crashing out. and the crash might be by choice or by getting booted (by a macron veto to an extension for example).

i think also that “remain and reform” is the right answer to the criticisms of europe that you have made (antidemocratic impulses and ruling by austerity).

right now for example italy is facing a fine for failing to rein in her debt. and yes their ballooning debt is a horror, but maybe that’s not the way to deal with it? (i’m not offering a solution here btw, just questioning europe’s response.)

i have no national dog in this fight, and i’m not partisan. actually, i confess to having small bets right now on britain crashing out—but that is based on probabilities and other factors, not on personal wishes. my bets might change as things develop. purely practical.

but from a larger perspective, values, etc, i think globalization and integration are inevitable, and so it’s in everyone’s interest that we do that in the best possible manner. yes, there will be political hurdles, but those are better than war.

letting communist china or gangster russia gain an upper hand in this race to establish global standards holds zero appeal to me. the rest are skirmishes that need constructive resolution, not breakups. the usa pulling out of the tpp was a dunce move that only empowers communist china, for example.

i think we can’t go back to old labor movements, and rather than making demands from paternalistic schemes the labor force needs to become more entrepreneurial in its offer. this can be done in the context of organized labor, where unions can operate as sellers/agents for themselves. and the role of government would be to reduce friction in labor markets so that workers can relocate/retrain/refit with minimal pain and a reasonable safety net.

but i recognize that this is a bit of a theoretical leap in the face of more immediate matters, and maybe i’ve gone slightly off a tangent hahaha. but no, that’s just to explain where i’m ultimately coming from.

so, yeah, i think remain and reform would be a better embrace of history than corbyn’s dino-marxist evasions.
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