[demonrail666]

[quote=tesla69]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

Joy Division are no more than music to self-harm to. quote]

thats nonsense.

Something tells me he'd agree with you. Our Sarram can be quite the agent provocateur when he wants to be.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Q: what do you call a controversial skeleton?
A: Hitler!

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Something tells me he'd agree with you. Our Sarram can be quite the agent provocateur when he wants to be.

I'm sorry if I ruined the NME Awards ceremony for you, and I can't be bothered to go into detail as to why I think that Joy Division are quite THE overrated band, and this from a fan of New Order which, as it happens, I was blasting just the other day; Evil Dust is a wicked tune. As for Anthony Wilson, I can't understand why some people on this thread are moaning about him going up to the sky and the sudden turmoil the music world will hypothetically be thrown into, when everything he is so revered for ended nearly 20 YEARS AGO, and this if you want to be magnanimous and include the last days of New Order being some sort of good, unless you think that Happy Mondays are the 'important' band that they so obviously are not, not to mention that his cv isn't that of a particularly prolific man, or one who was prone to quality-control.

Originally Posted by demonrail666

The Fall had lots of trlouble with record lebels regarding issues of artistic freedom.

And what about The Smiths, then? Wilson was far from being one of their biggest fans, but still they made it even in a climate of jelousy etc.

[Florya]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

And what about The Smiths, then? Wilson was far from being one of their biggest fans, but still they made it even in a climate of jelousy etc.

But the real genius of The Smiths, Johnny Marr, ended up on Factory in Electronic with Barney Sumner didn't he?

[Florya]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

People, say what you like. Joy Division are no more than music to self-harm to. I like some of their music, but still.....

Oh, I can think of far more apt bands to self harm to.

Being a contemporary of Joy Division, I have quite a few friends who are big fans of the band, and not one of them has expressed a desire to hurt themselves whilst listening to Joy Division songs.

Originally Posted by Florya

But the real genius of The Smiths, Johnny Marr, ended up on Factory in Electronic with Barney Sumner didn't he?

And what, you tell me. The Smiths made it regardless of Tony Wilson not helping them out, and went on to sell quite a lot of records, certainly many many more than Electronic, proof that a really determined band in 80's Manchester could find a way to put records out and sell them, anyway. Oh, and the Joy Division comment was half tongue in cheek, and since I wrote that myself appreciates some of their music it would make you think so.

[Palmer Eldritch]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

And what, you tell me. The Smiths made it regardless of Tony Wilson not helping them out, and went on to sell quite a lot of records, certainly many many more than Electronic, proof that a really determined band in 80's Manchester could find a way to put records out and sell them, anyway. Oh, and the Joy Division comment was half tongue in cheek, and since I wrote that myself appreciates some of their music it would make you think so.

The reason Wilson didn't sign the Smiths was because he though Morrissey was an arse. Most anyone that met Morrissey in his Manchester years would pretty much agree. And that is a value judgement that many people with less principles than Tony would choose to hide...

Originally Posted by Palmer Eldritch

The reason Wilson didn't sign the Smiths was because he though Morrissey was an arse. Most anyone that met Morrissey in his Manchester years would pretty much agree. And that is a value judgement that many people with less principles than Tony would choose to hide...

Yeah, I know all that, whatever. My point is that a band in Manchester in the 80's would have made it without his help, anyway. And they did.

[Torn Curtain]

Originally Posted by Palmer Eldritch

The reason Wilson didn't sign the Smiths was because he though Morrissey was an arse. Most anyone that met Morrissey in his Manchester years would pretty much agree. And that is a value judgement that many people with less principles than Tony would choose to hide...

That's well-known that Morrissey is a misanthropist and a social misfit.

[Palmer Eldritch]

Originally Posted by Torn Curtain

That's well-known that Morrissey is a misanthropist and a social misfit.

you're making the mistake of thinking that being a 'misanthropist and social misfit' is the same thing as being an arse. you're giving his arsiness an intellectual credence it doesn't really warrant.

[Everyneurotic]

Originally Posted by Palmer Eldritch

The reason Wilson didn't sign the Smiths was because he though Morrissey was an arse...

was an arse? shocking!

and shawn ryder always seemed like a very humble person.

*sarcasm off*

thing is, dude put out joy division yadda yadda which is, regardless of opinion, influential music; if tony wilson wouldn't have put their stuff out, someone else would, true but matter of fact is he did and, although his work did peak 20 years ago, a historical figure died; just a nod of recognition to a fallen important promoter/producer/record label owner before moving on to whatever matter happens today in life.

[Toilet & Bowels]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

And what about The Smiths, then?

indeed, if a band as shite as the smiths can make it without his help...

Harsh.

[Palmer Eldritch]

Originally Posted by Everyneurotic

was an arse? shocking!

and shawn ryder always seemed like a very humble person.

*sarcasm off*

thing is, dude put out joy division yadda yadda which is, regardless of opinion, influential music; if tony wilson wouldn't have put their stuff out, someone else would.

other people would have probably put their music out, sure, but none would have had the foresight to put his aesthetic, peter saville's (then largely undiscovered) artistic skills, and deliberately been so northern about it all without being cap doffing and parochial. and that's just one part of his talent, his genius even.
because as all the good school children know, music is aboutfar more than the notes played.
factory and all of wilson's subsequent projects (ITC, Hacienda etc) proved to us all that there is ANOTHER way of doing things. punk rock with a slice of situationism thrown in. and if that sounds pretentious then... it probably is. just like Wilson, bless him.

[Florya]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

Harsh.

Yes. They were.

Originally Posted by Florya

No Tony Wilson - no Factory Records.
No Factory Records - no Joy Division, no New Order, no Happy Mondays, no Section 25, no A Certain Ratio, no Hacienda, no Durutti Column, no James, no OMD, no Stockholm Monsters.

All of these artists had, and continue to have a profound effect on my worldview.

Tony Wilson may not have been everybody's cup of tea as a person, but his label and the bands he signed produced some of the most important music of the last 30 years. The man was a genius, and I hope that he and John Peel get to share a curry in the afterlife.

...

[demonrail666]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

Joy Division are no more than music to self-harm to.

Just reminding myself of the point in this thread where all the silliness started. Carry on.

[Everyneurotic]

hahahah, funny.

Originally Posted by demonrail666

Just reminding myself of the point in this thread where all the silliness started. Carry on.

Have you missed my first post?