[sonikold]

ehh, fuck all of you. you're just going to keep bitching about this for 10 more pages, aren't you?

[AllHandsOnTheBigOne]

Originally Posted by chabib

sure. all i'm saying is that that doesn't mean that the band might not find you a complete douchebag.

not that you should care... a lot of people are douchebags.

And the band finding me to be a complete douchebag wouldn't stop them from being ignorantasfuck in thinking it makes any difference whatsoever when the album is heard.

[AllHandsOnTheBigOne]

Originally Posted by truncated

Quite the opposite - you aren't obligated to buy shit. It's a free market, and that's the point. Correlatively, they aren't obligated to provide you with anything. They produce at will, and you consume at will. If neither of you like the other's terms, you won't comply with them. It's as simple as that.

Cool. So when I have the oppurtunity to acquire the product, I will.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by truncated

In all seriousness, am I completely unintelligible? Am I being especially inarticulate? I'm honestly curious.

You've stopped me from sticking my oar in (oo-er), so take that as a compliment to your verbosity and correctness. Because none of us have some sort of spiritual communion with a band just by dint of buying and appreciating a couple of records, or by dint of anything other than full penetrative sex with them.

[truncated]

Originally Posted by Glice

You've stopped me from sticking my oar in (oo-er), so take that as a compliment to your verbosity and correctness. Because none of us have some sort of spiritual communion with a band just by dint of buying and appreciating a couple of records, or by dint of anything other than full penetrative sex with them.

Even the latter could be inconsequential. I don't know how freaky they are behind closed doors.

[nicfit]

man,now this is completely off topic,but i can't stop reading all the hover writings on people's reputation points...i only wish they were all different,it would be funnier than most of the other things on this board (such as this thread,indeed..)

[chabib]

Originally Posted by AllHandsOnTheBigOne

And the band finding me to be a complete douchebag wouldn't stop them from being ignorantasfuck in thinking it makes any difference whatsoever when the album is heard.

assrake, it makes a difference in that they actually enjoy giving things to their fans. how do i know this? it's a fact. i discuss it with them. together we devise ways to facilitate that. they actively participate in the process because it means something to them. it means something to them to package and present something--for free or for profit--there's not really a distinction to be made. they enjoy giving things and take pride in the presentation. so, yes--it's a matter of medium. it's a matter of venue. it's a matter of context.

why? because those things matter to them. their fans matter to them. their work matters to them.

[truncated]

Originally Posted by AllHandsOnTheBigOne

Alright, so my question to you, if these are Sonic Youth's intentions, and not the intentions of the label, then do their intentions really make sense? How are they being hurt or disrepected by someone downloading, not paying for the album now, where in 3 months they'll have no problem with it?

Is it because they don't like the quality of the media that's being ripped? Isn't that doing more damage to the fan who's downloading it, and providing an incentive for them to acquire the album in a higher quality later down the road?

Really, I'm curious to know what you think.

Really, I swear, after this I'm done, because I think I want to die.

The point is that it doesn't matter what any of US thinks. Let me reiterate, for the 876th time:

It's THEIR album.

It doesn't matter whether or not their intentions make sense; they don't have to. Who the hell are we to put into question the logic of their operations?

They can do whatever the hell they want, and since it's THEIR product to distribute, they can do so however they see fit, and we as consumers don't have to agree with it.

HOWEVER, as fans, we should RESPECT it.

Oh my god, I just had an embolism.

[marleypumpkin]

A-Men chabib. Preach the Sonic Youth gospel.

[truncated]

If you appreciate SY's music, you're acknowledging the various tiny nuances that coalesce into the finished product that is their 'art.' Whether it's meticulously orchestrated or entirely random, it is their method, and if you are a fan of their work, then you should trust their conclusion that this is how the album will be best presented, both as representative of themselves and as desirable to their fans.

[Glice]

Asshat.

All posts henceforth should be separated into 'good' and 'bad' on the grounds of "Does the post open with an insult as good as 'assrake'?" If yes, then good.

[Feelyat]

Fuckrot.

Well it looks like all we're doing is arguing the same points over and over again. It's turning into an argument about beliefs, and that'll get us absolutely nowhere. Have you ever seen people debate Creationism vs. Evolution? In the end, no one really wins and each side walks away feeling like they are even more right. This is basically the same thing. One side can say, in so many words, "It's disrespectful to Sonic Youth!" and the other side can respond, "I don't think that it should be." And that's all there is. The discussion won't actually progress past that unless people are willing to compromise their beliefs, and man is that ever rare.

(I think this qualifies as a 'good' post.)

[Glice]

Twatdonkey.

I concur. And you're right about the discussion never resolving itself. I think the appeal to orthodoxy/ band communion is an incredibly shaky argument, and that seems clear enough, but yes, people never back down, and indeed, I am unlikely to back down on my beliefs, or, for that matter, care any time soon.

[chabib]

see, the weird thing is... i'm not really conveying my beliefs in any of my posts. i'm just describing the empirical nature of a situation. then the occasional cuntscab says that the sky is lime-green. i say, "hey, shaftwart, yr eyes are busted. free-thinking is great, but i'm just explaining something empirical, there's not a lot of room to make it not the way it is."

[AllHandsOnTheBigOne]

Originally Posted by chabib

assrake, it makes a difference in that they actually enjoy giving things to their fans. how do i know this? it's a fact. i discuss it with them. together we devise ways to facilitate that. they actively participate in the process because it means something to them. it means something to them to package and present something--for free or for profit--there's not really a distinction to be made. they enjoy giving things and take pride in the presentation. so, yes--it's a matter of medium. it's a matter of venue. it's a matter of context.

why? because those things matter to them. their fans matter to them. their work matters to them.

Silly prick, this is only as big of an issue as you make it. This will only turn into a judgement of someone's character if that's how you constrew it.

They made the music to be heard. I'm eager to hear it. I acquire it by any means possible, when possible. I have so much respect for their music that I don't want to wait for some official release date set by the record label to hear it.

Originally Posted by truncated

Really, I swear, after this I'm done, because I think I want to die.

The point is that it doesn't matter what any of US thinks. Let me reiterate, for the 876th time:

It's THEIR album.

It doesn't matter whether or not their intentions make sense; they don't have to. Who the hell are we to put into question the logic of their operations?

They can do whatever the hell they want, and since it's THEIR product to distribute, they can do so however they see fit, and we as consumers don't have to agree with it.

Obviously no one has to agree with anyone's intentions. We have a choice.

But their intentions are obviously to have the album heard. They made the music, they didn't lock the tapes away in the vaults. They could have if they wanted to. They didn't. The album was made to be heard, I'm hearing it. End of story.

[truncated]

Originally Posted by chabib

see, the weird thing is... i'm not really conveying my beliefs in any of my posts. i'm just describing the empirical nature of a situation. then the occasional cuntscab says that the sky is lime-green. i say, "hey, shaftwart, yr eyes are busted. free-thinking is great, but i'm just explaining something empirical, there's not a lot of room to make it not the way it is."

Thank fucking god.

That's exactly the point. This debate ISN'T about beliefs or moral stances or fan devotion or band obligation.

It's not even a debate! Or it wouldn't be, if people licking their own colons weren't throwing their two cents in.

they're putting the album out when they want, in the format they want. No one's opinion or half-assed self-motivated pseudo-intellectual sanctimonious stance matters. IT'S JUST THE WAY IT FUCKING IS.

[chabib]

Originally Posted by AllHandsOnTheBigOne

They made the music to be heard. I'm eager to hear it. I acquire it by any means possible, when possible. I have so much respect for their music that I don't want to wait for some official release date set by the record label to hear it.

which has the very real effect of introducing frustration into the situation and causing various taps to regulate down to trickles and ultimately be completely switched off.

you'll notice that there once was a time when there was a lot more audio and video available on this site.

things do very realistically change--in part due to just a few opinions like your own.

[truncated]

Originally Posted by AllHandsOnTheBigOne

But their intentions are obviously to have the album heard. They made the music, they didn't lock the tapes away in the vaults. They could have if they wanted to. They didn't. The album was made to be heard, I'm hearing it. End of story.

Do you and Thurston have your slumber parties on Friday or Saturday nights?

Because there's no other way you could know what anyone's intentions are.

Presumption is a vehicle of character suicide.

[truncated]

I'm too appalled to even insert a low-brow insult.

[AllHandsOnTheBigOne]

Originally Posted by chabib

which has the very real effect of introducing frustration into the situation and causing various taps to regulate down to trickles and ultimately be completely switched off.

you'll notice that there once was a time when there was a lot more audio and video available on this site.

things do very realistically change--in part due to just a few opinions like your own.

Wanting to hear music. What an awful crime.

If there wasn't any way to hear the album until the "release" date, I would wait until that date to hear it. But, thanks to the beauty of the internet, I can hear the music on my terms, not on the terms of a record label.

I know. It's a shame. Boo hoo.