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Old 05.22.2019, 03:52 PM   #441
choc e-Claire
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Who on earth is Andrea Leadsom? I've literally never heard of her
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Old 05.22.2019, 04:13 PM   #442
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Originally Posted by choc e-Claire
Who on earth is Andrea Leadsom? I've literally never heard of her
follow the thrilling and ongoing soap opera

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...lved-live-news

better than the golden days of venevisión
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Old 05.23.2019, 06:41 AM   #443
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this is the live thread for today

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...sign-live-news

“she’s being hounded out of office”



eta: television for most things

https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Commons
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Old 05.23.2019, 07:21 AM   #444
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If you're enjoying this soap opera, just wait until the real fun starts, when the Leave and Remain sides of the party go toe-to-toe trying to find a replacement. Everyone said the EU question would eventually destroy the Tories and it looks like that's precisely what'll happen.

More surprising is the chaos it's causing in Labour but I ultimately see it finishing them, too.

I'll be glad to see the back of both of them.
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Old 05.23.2019, 07:26 AM   #445
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was gonna reply but instant reshuffle, look

 
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Old 05.23.2019, 07:40 AM   #446
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Haha. Hard not to find equivalence with the old 'rearranging the deck-chairs on the Titanic' quote. She'll be ordering a new settee for No. 10 next.
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Old 05.23.2019, 09:38 AM   #447
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i don’t understand why she doesn’t quit already. enduring pain for a cause i understand. enduring it for sheer ego is silly.



now they just milkshaked a little old man

damn!

i’d feel more sorry for him if it weren’t for piers morgan talking about him (glad you guys took morgan back, here he was a pestilence)
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Old 05.23.2019, 10:53 AM   #448
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Originally Posted by !@#$%!
i don’t understand why she doesn’t quit already. enduring pain for a cause i understand. enduring it for sheer ego is silly.

I don't think it's as simple as ego. I think she's genuinely committed to respecting the referendum result and delivering Brexit, regardless of the cost to her own reputation. It's a question of political competence for me. Even if you ignore her mismanagement of Brexit, her period as PM has been nothing more than a string of bad decisions. And the consequence of some of those decisions are precisely why she's so weak within her own party - sections of which wanted her out the moment she blew their overall majority in the last General Election. That was in 2017 and she's been on the back-foot ever since.
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Old 05.23.2019, 11:17 AM   #449
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Originally Posted by demonrail666
I don't think it's as simple as ego. I think she's genuinely committed to respecting the referendum result and delivering Brexit, regardless of the cost to her own reputation. It's a question of political competence for me. Even if you ignore her mismanagement of Brexit, her period as PM has been nothing more than a string of bad decisions. And the consequence of some of those decisions are precisely why she's so weak within her own party - sections of which wanted her out the moment she blew their overall majority in the last General Election. That was in 2017 and she's been on the back-foot ever since.
right, which is why i mean ego, see.

i heard her speech. i understand what she sees as the upsides of a good deal and the downsides of no deal.

i see also the potential upsides of the brexit as allowing trade opportunities beyond europe.

and i understand how important the issue is for her. she’s very serious and committed indeed.

where i see ego coming in is in her inability to see that she cannot deliver what she wants. i understand trying. i understand trying hard. i understand never giving up.

but she’s giving up on her stated goals by insisting that she’s the one and only moses who can deliver the people to the promised land.

i mean, there might be no agreement possible at all, but if there were a viable solution it’s clear she’s not the person to deliver it anymore, and it’s time to voluntarily walk if she cares about national outcomes more than personal triumphs.

yes?
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Old 05.23.2019, 12:28 PM   #450
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Yeah, I can see that. Although I still see her as being driven by something more than that. People close to her have talked about her being deeply Christian and, while she's actually very private about it, I've heard it said that her faith has played a significant role in forming her character (more than her policies, as is usually the case with politicians with strong links to a religion).
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Old 05.23.2019, 01:17 PM   #451
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Originally Posted by demonrail666
Yeah, I can see that. Although I still see her as being driven by something more than that. People close to her have talked about her being deeply Christian and, while she's actually very private about it, I've heard it said that her faith has played a significant role in forming her character (more than her policies, as is usually the case with politicians with strong links to a religion).
oh yeah i don’t for one second doubt her earnestness and good intentions, but maybe those religious paradigms are framing her choices as matters of personal sacrifice and enduring suffering, when good practical judgment is actually what was needed of her.

she can fight this one on the beaches and the landing grounds and the fields and the streets—but she can’t win, because it seems to me she herself is the problem.

or no? if she’s not the problem, then what is?

or i should ask in a different way: who is she trying to block by staying? boris?
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Old 05.23.2019, 01:45 PM   #452
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She's part of the problem definitely but the fact her own party is split so fundamentally isn't helping her.

I don't think she's actively looking to block anyone specifically. She obviously thinks she's the best person for the job, otherwise she would've never stood as leader to begin with. And I don't think she's that Machiavellian, which, when it comes to negotiating (whether it's with the EU or Parliament or her own party) might be part of her problem. She certainly wouldn't have made it past season 1 in GoT.

There are people in politics who I don't agree with, in terms of policy or how they operate but who I can't help liking. Theresa May's one of those. The most incompetent PM in my lifetime and I disagree with her position on almost everything, but she's always struck me as a fundamentally decent person. I felt the same about John Major - although in fairness he was a far more competent PM than Theresa May.
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Old 05.23.2019, 02:34 PM   #453
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Originally Posted by demonrail666
She's part of the problem definitely but the fact her own party is split so fundamentally isn't helping her.

I don't think she's actively looking to block anyone specifically. She obviously thinks she's the best person for the job, otherwise she would've never stood as leader to begin with. And I don't think she's that Machiavellian, which, when it comes to negotiating (whether it's with the EU or Parliament or her own party) might be part of her problem. She certainly wouldn't have made it past season 1 in GoT.

There are people in politics who I don't agree with, in terms of policy or how they operate but who I can't help liking. Theresa May's one of those. The most incompetent PM in my lifetime and I disagree with her position on almost everything, but she's always struck me as a fundamentally decent person. I felt the same about John Major - although in fairness he was a far more competent PM than Theresa May.
ok so i gamed this scenario in my head anyway. i think she wants to prevent a no-deal brexit and she’s the stop against that. she thinks it would be a disaster.

boris is a hard brexiter yes? he could just sit on his ass and do nothing and blam, you’re gone on halloween. no need to do anything in particular.

so as long as she’ there no-dealers are blocked.

but if you want to exit with a deal—who is a good alternative to may?

not 2 years ago, but today... who is the true messiah who can deliver a deal?

she seems to be holding their place.
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Old 05.23.2019, 04:22 PM   #454
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Yeah, everything you say about her wanting to block a no-deal Brexit is a given. But that's true of a majority of MPs within her Party. A majority of MPs within Parliament full stop. But those are the very ones the electorate are turning their back on. Not that I think it even matters if a hard-Brexiter replaces her. I'd say most Leave supporters would now sooner vote for Farage than anyone within the conservative party, or any of the mainstream parties for that matter, just as I can ultimately see the more progressive wing of the electorate looking beyond Corbyn for their own Farage.
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Old 05.23.2019, 04:28 PM   #455
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sssssso..... you’re saying a majority of the electorate is already in favor of a no-deal, hard brexit?
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Old 05.23.2019, 05:25 PM   #456
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No, I'm saying that Theresa May is dying on a hill fighting for something that neither the Leave or the Remain side are ever gonna consider a victory. At best the remainers will see a soft Brexit as preferable to a hard Brexit while the Leavers will at best see it as preferable to no Brexit at all - although in the case of May's actual proposals, they're worse.
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Old 05.23.2019, 08:20 PM   #457
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Originally Posted by demonrail666
No, I'm saying that Theresa May is dying on a hill fighting for something that neither the Leave or the Remain side are ever gonna consider a victory. At best the remainers will see a soft Brexit as preferable to a hard Brexit while the Leavers will at best see it as preferable to no Brexit at all - although in the case of May's actual proposals, they're worse.

but can she propose *anything* that a majority will agree upon?

the last round of indicative votes i recall “no hard brexit” had an overwhelming majority

but when it came time to agree on a positive proposal, i think customs union had the most votes but not enough to win. yes?

i think it’s gonna be hard brexit by default... especially if boris takes over. no?

since nobody can agree on anything... that... or revocation?
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Old 05.23.2019, 11:43 PM   #458
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The EU are predicting we'll ask for another extension in October.

I just don't know.
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Old 05.24.2019, 04:09 AM   #459
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Anyway, she's just now announced her resignation.
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Old 05.24.2019, 06:56 AM   #460
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ah yes i wasnt awake for that but saw first thing.

funny story the pound rose upon news of her resignation but then fell back again because evidently nobody else can do shit.

or at least that’s my interpretation of the charts, lol. google gbp/usd or eur/gbp for example

and im no prophet but i disagree with the october prediction. if you get boris i believe you’re gone.

[failed boris photo]
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