[HaydenAsche]

Originally Posted by LittlePuppetBoy

simple solution to those pissed off by the ban: stop smoking, then the ban won't apply to you. Plus, you'll have lots of extra money to spend.

Tip: Stop being such a fucking cunt.

[Glice]

Originally Posted by HaydenAsche

Tip: Stop being such a fucking cunt.

See, you don't have to be an obnoxious prick all the time, you can actually talk some sense. Hold onto that, and stop being such a prick all the time y'cunt.

[Pookie]

I love the smoking band, you'll be surprised to hear.

The local shopping centre has now stopped people smoking outside the centre, under cover. So all the smokers stand out in the rain, coughing their lungs up.

How stupid do you have to be to smoke?

If there was a law that you had to stand in a bucket of shit when smoking, smokers would do it.

Oh, and did I say: ha ha ha ha ha ha etc.

[zedius]

I don't have time to read all this, so I feel a little crappy putting my two cents in but here it is:

I think bar owners should have the right to choose whether or not people can smoke in their bars, the same as anyone over 19 (21 if you live in crapsville) can choose whether or not to frequent the smoking bar.

At the same time I think smoking is bullshit. I used to smoke, still smoke occasionally, but I think generally it is about the most ignorant thing you can do. It's supposed to have this rebelious nature to it, but really it's just paying shitloads of hard earned moneys to fat greedy companies that are knowingly killing you. The worse part is that, at least where I am, most everyone who smokes is dirt poor working class. The dirt poor working class smokes because their friends smoke too, down at the shitty local pub where they drink to get their enjoyment out of life. (In the rain, since they're no longer allowed to smoke on the smoking patios that were initially created during the initial indoor smoking ban).

It ends up being, in some fucked up way, a license for the government to tax shitloads of money out of poor people. Most people smoke a pack a day, and at least half (probably more like 90%) of that goes to the government. $4 * $365 is $1460 blue collar dollars that are going to the government that buddy-rich-boy-happy-lifestyle-kayaker is saving for his trip to hawa'ii.

[zedius]

Originally Posted by Pookie

It's mainly for employees. You should be able to work anywhere (including pubs) without having to breath in other people's smoke.

That's really absurd. Nobody should work at a bar if they don't want to potentially develop lung cancer or potentially become an alcoholic due to social pressures or potentially become stinking rich off tips.

"You should be able to work anywhere (including roofing) without having to breathe in tar fumes.

[Pookie]

Originally Posted by zedius

...it is about the most ignorant thing you can do. It's supposed to have this rebelious nature to it, but really it's just paying shitloads of hard earned moneys to fat greedy companies that are knowingly killing you.

Absolutely. And they'd still stand in a bucket of shit for the privelige.

[Pookie]

Originally Posted by zedius

That's really absurd. Nobody should work at a bar if they don't want to potentially develop lung cancer or potentially become an alcoholic due to social pressures or potentially become stinking rich off tips.

"You should be able to work anywhere (including roofing) without having to breathe in tar fumes.

It's a ban on smoking in public places and places of work, not just in bars.

[jico.]

one's freedom ends where other's freedom starts.

fuck it, i like to smoke alone anyway.


but fortunately,here, smoke banning just applies in really small places, unventilated spaces, inside some public buildings, etc. ha-ha.

[zedius]

^^
Yeah and I think that business owners should have the right to allow smoking anywhere really.

There is probably a fair argument against that when it comes to protecting kids, but kids don't go to bars so as far as I'm concerned bars are a straight up example of a place that should be permitted to allow smoking.

And there should never be smoking in government offices or other places that are essentially public services. I'm really talking private businesses only.

Edit: This thread is making me want a smoke.

[Pookie]

Originally Posted by zedius

^^
Yeah and I think that business owners should have the right to allow smoking anywhere really.

There is probably a fair argument against that when it comes to protecting kids, but kids don't go to bars so as far as I'm concerned bars are a straight up example of a place that should be permitted to allow smoking.

And there should never be smoking in government offices or other places that are essentially public services. I'm really talking private businesses only.

Edit: This thread is making me want a smoke.

So you think the ban should be selective? How would that work?

You'd exclude pubs for sure. Restaurants? Maybe just restaurants that don't allow children in. Trains owned by private companies? Same with buses? Privately owned shopping centres?

Or maybe just ban smoking in public places?

[jico.]

Originally Posted by Pookie

So you think the ban should be selective? How would that work?

You'd exclude pubs for sure. Restaurants? Maybe just restaurants that don't allow children in. Trains owned by private companies? Same with buses? Privately owned shopping centres?

Or maybe just ban smoking in public places?

smoke free zones
smoke zones

[Pookie]

Originally Posted by jico.

smoke free zones
smoke zones

Do you mean smoking and non-smoking areas in restaurants for example?

And people could start smoking those magic cigarettes with the smoke that knows where to stop blowing.

[zedius]

The ban should be selective in that public services are non smoking. This includes government run transit systems and government subsidized transit systems. It's pretty simple. If it's a public initiative it is non smoking, because no smoke is a lot less intrusive to smokers than smoke is to non smokers.

Pubs, restaurants, etc, would be up to the business owner. For any private business it would be up to the business owner.

Something like a McDonalds would be up to the franchise obviously, and I'm sure they would go with non-smoking because of the child factor.

Libraries and government offices would be non smoking. Unless there was a private library, they can do what they want.

Private office buildings get to choose as well, and obviously they will choose a nice middle ground like no smoking but allow smokers a place to go that is decent. Because they don't want to discourage good employees who don't want to work in a smoking environment.

Banning smoking in public places would be bullshit too. There could be bylaws about not smoking near bus shelters and stuff, but it would be better if everyone would just grow a pair and tell the smoker it's bugging them. I'm sure the smoker would understand, or at least some sort of dialogue would occur instead of just preventing every possible irritation for whiners all the time.

Edit: I'm horribly inarticulate lately. Sorry if this is unclear.

[Pookie]

That is completely unworkable and missing the point of the ban.

What it boils down to is, smoking harms/kills the smoker and people in the surrounding area. It's a bad thing. Banning it in public places is a good thing.

[zedius]

It's not unworkable at all. They did it for years almost everywhere, before they decided to start imposing fascist smoker bans on business owners.

I agree that smoking kills, and I agree that it's silly. I'm not convinced that it kills enough via second hand smoke to take away peoples rights, however. I don't think they have enough proof that second hand smoke kills people to support that sort of thing.

Yeah, if you hang around people who smoke maybe. Yeah, if you choose to frequent bars and pubs and shit where people smoke. But just walking past smokers on the street? Some dude smoking on a bench in a park? I somehow doubt that's much worse than car exhaust.

I could make a list of things I want banned. You can make a list of things you want banned. In the long run, there has to be some freedom. A guy smoking a cigarette is no different to me than some other guy stinking up my air with his chemical Hugo fucktard smell.

Edit: Actually, you know what? I think your last paragraph negates this shit. Obviously we differ politically too much to argue. I can see where you're coming from.

[jico.]

Originally Posted by Pookie

Do you mean smoking and non-smoking areas in restaurants for example?

And people could start smoking those magic cigarettes with the smoke that knows where to stop blowing.

yes. that's my solution for places like restaurants and trains for example.

yeah,smoke free zones, ever heard about them? there's no need of magical powers to create them.

-------
people have the right to smoke

but...

Originally Posted by jico.

one's freedom ends where other's freedom starts.

so, i think that in the specific case of public spaces or buildings, there should be granted spaces or other types of solutions that allow this principle to be respected. since i guess that in your constituion there's a line somewhere that states that it's up to the state to grant personal rights and freedoms. dont forget that smoking is a right too.

[HaydenAsche]

Listen,

non-smoking whiny little vegan cunts can just NOT GO TO FUCKING BARS. I understand restaurants but it should be the business owner's fucking choice.

[Norma J]

Originally Posted by HaydenAsche

Listen,

non-smoking whiny little vegan cunts can just NOT GO TO FUCKING BARS. I understand restaurants but it should be the business owner's fucking choice.

There's no animal products in cigarettes, broomhead.

You're not even old enough to go into bars yet, are you?

[HaydenAsche]

Originally Posted by Norma J

There's no animal products in cigarettes, broomhead.

You're not even old enough to go into bars yet, are you?

Fake I.D., cunt.

[HaydenAsche]

Oh, and you're opinion doesn't even count. You're from the land of criminals and marsupials. Go eat a fucking soy-burger.