[jon boy]

Originally Posted by ThePits

What sounds silly is a "musician" who doesnt know what tour or personal security is and doesnt know you take a live feed off of a front of house desk not the p.a.

By the way, they even have front of house desks in pub gigs

Carry on

i understand what tour and personal security are, they just are so rediculous for me that it is hard to comprehend. i suppose you have to feel important somehow.

what so they have desks and p.a.'s and things. i thought the music came from the sky and was magic and came out of knowhere.

you are talking to someone who has lived with a sound (p.a) man for several years and has toured, plays gigs and puts many of them on and has done for quite some time. and i am talking to a guy with a rather large ego and a silly job that seems to think that because he puts up security barriers knows something the rest of us dont.

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by sarramkrop

Oh, I get you. They're pretty much bands that you'd think would be precious about the whole intellectual property thing, simply by the very nature of how they deal with the music business. There was an interesting article on the whole attitude that the music industry has towards mp3 blogs on one of those free newspapers that litter the streets of London every day (surprising, considering the amount of dull celebrity pap that these rags contain). It goes on to try and explain the ambivalent attitude that said record companies have towars the bloggers, the unspoken act of sending these people music from new bands in the hope that an internet buzz takes place, even though the law forbids the uploading of copyrighted material on this or other promotional tools. It's all a bit fucked up, but then the industry is still getiing its head around the whole myspace/ digital distribution of music thing, so it's safe to say that they haven't got too much of a clue about what's going on or what will take place.

The whole copyright issue is a mess, It was only on April 6th this year that powers under the Copyright Designs and Patents Act 2002 was given to Trading Standards!

Before that it was exclusively a Police matter

Attitudes vary from record company to record company and band to band

Arctic monkeys who originally based themselves originally on free downloads of their material are now vehemently anti counterfeit in attitude and Muse are just having a huge purge on material on the internet

Its a hypocritical the way the industry on the one hand actively courts the internet communities to get bands off the launch pad or use them as free market research and the next minute is vilifying them for doing what they have encouraged them to do in the first place

[k-krack]

Originally Posted by ThePits

Hmm so stalkers dont exist and organised professional criminal gangs dont rob the music industry blind?

I better go tell the rest of the industry that its all a lie and we can all go home

Thanks

Stalkers? "Organised criminal gangs"?!
Yr a joke, dude.

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by jon boy

i understand what tour and personal security are, they just are so rediculous for me that it is hard to comprehend. i suppose you have to feel important somehow.

what so they have desks and p.a.'s and things. i thought the music came from the sky and was magic and came out of knowhere.

you are talking to someone who has lived with a sound (p.a) man for several years and has toured, plays gigs and puts many of them on and has done for quite some time. and i am talking to a guy with a rather large ego and a silly job that seems to think that because he puts up security barriers knows something the rest of us dont.

I put up barriers?

Damn I never knew that

And if you are know the industry as well asl you say and live with a sound engineer why say p.a. not f.o.h desk?

As large as my ego is it pales into insignificance besides your b.s.

And if you knew what personal security was why did you have to ask earlier?

Let me guess, you were being sarcastic, was that the excuse you were going to come up with?

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by k-krack

Stalkers? "Organised criminal gangs"?!
Yr a joke, dude.

you're showing ignorance here.

Field recordings could be, perhaps, considered the first example of bootleging activity, and especially in the likes of Harry Smith's recordings of indigenous American music, they are a gift to the world.

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

people have been bootleggin' since fuck, ELVIS! YESSSS, there are elvis bootlegs. since that time i know of not ONE band that hass had to call it quits because of bootlegging. not one. you sir, are either 14 or have no earthly clue as to what you are talking about.

There are plenty who havent got a break due to lack of funds in the last ten years as a direct result of piracy

Originally Posted by k-krack

Stalkers? "Organised criminal gangs"?!
Yr a joke, dude.

So they dont exist?

Damn, the whole industry got it wrong again, including bodies like the BPI

All those court cases in the media and restraining orders against stalkers must have been bogus too!

The newspapers are in on the conspiracy to keep security personel in unnecessary employment as well as the legal systems of various countries!

Now if I could only find Area 51.........

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

so, if a band encourages fans to boot their shows, that makes someone who actually does it a thief?


your wierd man.

Where exactly did I say that?

Dont put words in my mouth

Putting words in peoples mouths is weird

If the owner of copyright material expressly states a person can copy that material its legal

If its done without the copyright owners consent its illegal in the UK, and an indictable offence

[jon boy]

Originally Posted by ThePits

I put up barriers?

Damn I never knew that

And if you are know the industry as well asl you say and live with a sound engineer why say p.a. not f.o.h desk?

As large as my ego is it pales into insignificance besides your b.s.

And if you knew what personal security was why did you have to ask earlier?

Let me guess, you were being sarcastic, was that the excuse you were going to come up with?

i can hardly type from laughing so much!

ok well, we call it p.a because thats what we call it. other people call it the desk, the rig, the speakers, etc etc. we will try and call it f.o.h. thingy from now on. this will raise a smile or two i am sure.

and personal security sounds like quite a few things, bodyguard, security guard, bouncer etc. i also said sounds so silly to me. are you suggesting that because someone doesnt call it a f.o.h thingy or know exactly what personal security is then they are not a real 'musician'?

i dont make any attempt to try and 'know the industry' personaly i do the things i like and thats that.

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

i would like to request a list of these poor starving bands that never made it due to piracy. im not talking one or two examples...i want a list listing the PLENTY (as you said) that have suffered.

Would you like me to compile a history of music while I am at it too?

Why dont you do your own research and prove me wrong

I'll give you a clue, ask any A & R rep from any record company how many artists/bands they can't fund in a year due to financial restrictions

Then ask an independant body like the BPI where the music industry is losing money

And dont forget the parliamentary sub committees that have examined the whole counterfeiting issue

Oh and Trading Standards who prosecute bootleggers/counterfeiters

Prove me wrong

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by jon boy

i can hardly type from laughing so much!

ok well, we call it p.a because thats what we call it. other people call it the desk, the rig, the speakers, etc etc. we will try and call it f.o.h. thingy from now on. this will raise a smile or two i am sure.

and personal security sounds like quite a few things, bodyguard, security guard, bouncer etc. i also said sounds so silly to me. are you suggesting that because someone doesnt call it a f.o.h thingy or know exactly what personal security is then they are not a real 'musician'?

i dont make any attempt to try and 'know the industry' personaly i do the things i like and thats that.

And earlier you said I wasnt fun to be around!

Actually you did imply that you knew the industry personally:

Originally Posted by jon boy

you are talking to someone who has lived with a sound (p.a) man for several years and has toured, plays gigs and puts many of them on and has done for quite some time.

Nuff said

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

well, to prove your earlier statement about sonic youth having an isue with bootlegging and it being "common knowledge", heres a little something to prove you wrong...

and interview with thurston...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4701169

theres plenty more like it if youd like to read em just let me know.

i really like the part when he talks about the scare the industry had when recordable tapes came around....that certainly shut the music business down didnt it....and people were copying albums just as much then.


also like how he says he had a friend that would copy his punk rock albums to tape for him, because he couldnt afford them. and those were "officail albums" being copied, not a bootlegged live show.

The major decline due to piracy has been in the last ten years give or take a year due to changes in technology

Not in the days of tape recorders and Sinclair Spectrums

As I said check out the BPI and their take on things if you dont like what you hear from other sources

Originally Posted by swa(y)

youve mentioned sonic youth....sonic youth encourages it...literally. they also (well, lee and steve) were on tech tv a couple years back also saying that they support illegal downloading.

Sonic Youth are one of those bands that, musical achievements aside, have also managed to indirectly educate most of their audience to responsably obtain their music the sensible way. I might be wrong, but the average Sonic Youth fan strikes me as an avid record buyer, or certainly not one that is just happy to have a stack of mp3s on their hard drive, and that's that. From what I gather from ThePits' point of view, he deals with another kettle of fish altogether. The existence of many of the bands that he seems to deal with is much more volatile and certainly stamped with the inevitable 'Best Before' seal that comes with their own artistic shortcomings. In that context, it's useless arguing about the artistic or moral attitudes of those bands, but if one has to deal with them on a professional level, they have to accept their existence and the infrastrucure that allows them to make money the way they do.

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

and as much as i hate to tell ya.....the music industry losing money isnt such a bad thing.

see, its became about the "music business", we need to get shit back to being about "the business of music". there is a huge mother fuckin difference.

I disagree with the losing money comment but entirely agree with you on the business of music remark

Thats what pisses me off about manufactured pop as a safe bet being pushed by record companies due to the fact its instant volume sales and can absorb losses due to piracy where as new artists/bands with new styles of music are far riskier and cannot take the hit

[jon boy]

Originally Posted by ThePits

And earlier you said I wasnt fun to be around!

Actually you did imply that you knew the industry personally:



Nuff said

i think your interpretation of 'know the industry' is one that is alien to me. i put on shows, i lived with a soundman etc. i also made a lot of sandwiches in my life so i guess i know that industry as well. no one i know uses that phrase because its pretty stupid and the sort of thing silly people say. i dont want to really get involved with the industry is i suppose a better way of putting it because its full of people who say things like 'know the industry' and have more at heart than music.

and your not fun to be around, sorry guy but your too serious about it all.

[Pookie]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

we've talked some shit to eachother in the past, but i gotta say it man...im really agreein' with everything yr saying in this thread.

Do you love him?

[floatingslowly]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

i love em at the moment as much as id love an android fixing me a cold lemonade on a hot day.

RACIST!

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

fuck the BPI.

dude...go join the military or something. be a cop.....something.

Nice to see such a well formulated articulate comment

[ThePits]

Originally Posted by jon boy

i think your interpretation of 'know the industry' is one that is alien to me. i put on shows, i lived with a soundman etc. i also made a lot of sandwiches in my life so i guess i know that industry as well. no one i know uses that phrase because its pretty stupid and the sort of thing silly people say. i dont want to really get involved with the industry is i suppose a better way of putting it because its full of people who say things like 'know the industry' and have more at heart than music.

and your not fun to be around, sorry guy but your too serious about it all.

But you said I made you laugh?

Damn.......

There goes that standup spot

[Pookie]

Originally Posted by swa(y)

i love em at the moment as much as id love an android fixing me a cold lemonade on a hot day.

Oh, I'm going to "fix" myself a lovely cup of hot milky tea right now.